DD is a rising senior and is looking at colleges like Univ. of Richmond, Tulane, BU, GWU, etc. and hoping for a little merit aid. I have been reading lots of threads about this on CC and one common statement is that college admissions value higher GPAs over higher test scores. My DD and I have been on college tours this summer and the same information is given - that GPAs are more important in the admissions process because GPAs show multiple years of work, etc.
My DD is concerned because she is a “middle” GPA kid (UW 3.5) with high stats (2240 SAT, 1500 CR+M, 5s on her three APs, Nat’l Merit commended). She does not have a grade below B and a good upward trend. She is a hard worker. I know that admissions also look at students within the context of their school (heard that in every single info session!) but yet I read on CC and elsewhere that students like my daughter are often considered “slackers” because of the disconnect between the GPA and test scores. This is not the case with her but she is worried that colleges will see that UW 3.5 and not give her application another look.
She has friends at other high schools in the area and at those schools, students can re-take tests, re-do assignments, take summer classes, etc. to improve their GPA. In addition, those schools offer honors for almost every subject starting in freshman year (e.g. honors English, honors orchestra, etc.).At her school, none of that is available. Her school doesn’t rank and also doesn’t provide GPA distribution on their school profile so she isn’t sure where she is in relation to her classmates. She knows she is not in the top 10% but maybe top 20% (class of approx. 100).
Any advice on colleges that may value higher stats/lower GPA? Thanks!
If you look at a lot of colleges that give automatic awards on the scholarships page, you will see that after a certain level of gpa, scores- are usually the driving factor. Others will be more holistically based but scores will definitely be a factor for consideration, then there are plus factors. You really can’t spend your time worrying about what other friends high schools do, there’s no payoff in that. If you want to know how students similar to her do in admissions, meet with her GC. I take it you don’t have Naviance or you would have some info on admissions stats.
Thanks @BrownParent Yes, she does not have access to Naviance. It’s a relatively new school so not a lot of data from previous students. She’s been looking at other websites that give data based on self-reported scores like Parchment, Niche, etc. She compares her GPA to the accepted areas. She knows that there is nothing she can do now to change her GPA and that she just needs to work on things like essays, etc.
Regarding scholarships, the only reason I mentioned other high schools is that does make a difference in the amount based on GPA. For example, at Temple, we saw that she would be in the range for the full tuition scholarship plus $8000 stipend based on her SAT scores but due to her GPA, she drops to the third level of $8000 (in-state)/$14000 (out-of-state). We’ll keep looking!
My son2 did very well with merit scholarship money with high SAT scores and a decent but not spectacular GPA from a public high school. His GPA end of junior year was a 91, though he had excellent grades in 5 APs throughout his senior year. However, he heard back from many of his merit scholarships before they would have seen first semester grades. His SAT scores were 2260 (national merit commended scholar) and 800 world history, 770 literature and 760 us history in his SAT2s. He got the top merit award at Tulane, was nominated for the full tuition award at USC, got $ at urochester, and nominated for the writing merit award at WUSTL. He applied ed2 to tufts and ultimately had to withdraw his apps where he was nominated for merit. My hunch is that the SAT scores are weighed more heavily than the GPA. He punched way above his GPA weight in college admissions. It may have helped that he also had national awards for his writing and photography. Best of luck to your daughter.
@RenaissanceMom Thanks so much for sharing! That brings hope to my daughter. Although her SAT II scores aren’t as high as your son’s, at least she knows she has a chance at some of her potential colleges.
@BrownParent Previously we had skimmed that list you shared and now realize that we needed to look more carefully. We had not considered Univ of Alabama because the scholarship listed (Academic Elite) showed a minimum of 3.8 GPA. We didn’t realize that there were other scholarships. We’ll have to go back and check out others more carefully as well (e.g. Univ of Georgia has 3.8 GPA listed but maybe they offer others for students with lower GPAs and high SATs). I appreciate you taking the time to share that info.
She would get the Presidential Scholar, Full tuition x 4 yrs
A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 32–36 ACT or 1400–1600 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Presidential Scholar and will receive the value of tuition or $103,800 over four years ($25,950 per year) to be used towards undergraduate or graduate/law studies. Engineering and CS students get additional stipend.
One thing to be careful of is the gpa requirement to maintain scholarships. Some universities don’t require any, I think Alabama is 3.0 but some ask as high as 3.5, I think NYU. ouch.
We found that if your EFC is affordable, schools that meet 100% of need valued recommendations, essays and other nuanced information over test scores or grades. Your nmbers still need to be reasonable, but D was accepted with numbers on lower end for the school, while her essays & reccomendations were excellent.
It really depends on the school. Some schools definitively want the higher test scores. And top end schools are holistic and admit people, not numbers.
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GPA kid (UW 3.5) with high stats (2240 SAT, 1500 CR+M,
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Alabama would award her the Presidential…free tuition…as long as she applies before Dec 15. She should apply now, app is live and she’d have the acceptance and big merit in a couple of weeks.
She only needs a 3.5, so if her UW falls below that, her weighted GPA will be accepted if it’s on the transcript. If it’s not there, then the GC can write it on there, and Alabama will accept that.
What does DD want to study, what state are you from, and has she visited schools with any kind of preferences (size of school, city or not, etc).
Research quickly so DD can get in the applications. Can help with spread sheets so you don’t miss deadlines. Faculty recommendations - need to ask early. You want to get the applications/scholarship applications/essays in to places like UA (University of AL) so you have options with the merit awards/COA (cost of attendance). Wealth of info out there, including the expertise on CC. You can always sort out with visits later in the school year based on your final choices. UA is easy/quick application, as is their honors college.
Some larger universities can imitate a bit a smaller college with attention for high stat students with a well run honors college or well run departmental programs. UA fits this bill for many students. At UA, honors college students get class priority. There are a number of HC programs. My DD is in one, STEM MBA. They have Emerging Scholars for students wanting to get into research as UG (undergraduate). There are some more selective programs too with more limited number of students and selection process that includes interviewing (Computer Based Honors Program; University Fellows). Lots of info on ua web site www.ua.edu on search type in honors college and go from there.
Our high school got Naviance between DD1 (2012) and DD2 (2014). GC (guidance counselors) can get transcripts out electronically using Naviance (and students put in transcript request electronically), so that helped our GCs and school. Since DD2 knew her college of choice, we didn’t have to learn or use too much on Naviance. Learn the lead time at your HS on getting HS transcript out.
A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 32–36 ACT or 1400–1600 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Presidential Scholar and will receive the value of tuition or $103,800 over four years ($25,950 per year) to be used towards undergraduate or graduate/law studies.**
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and hoping for a little merit aid.
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What do you want your net cost to be? Do you realize that merit gets applied to COA first?
This confuses many people. They sometimes think a school is going to give them need-based aid, and then the merit will get applied to reduce EFC. No. Merit gets applied to COA. It doesn’t reduce EFC unless the merit is big enough to cover any need, and then reduce EFC.
@mom2collegekids Thanks for all the info! DD is starting on her Univ of Alabama application this weekend. She still needs to wait to speak to her guidance counselor after school starts (after Labor Day) to make sure she is doing things correctly but she is excited to apply. One kind of neat aside is that although she doesn’t play any sports, she and her dad bond over watching football, basketball, etc. on TV so I think my husband would be thrilled if she got accepted since the sports culture at Univ of Alabama is exciting to him (in addition to the academics, of course). We are too far away for him to actually attend games but I imagine he will find some games broadcast on TV in our area.
We will be full-pay so any merit will help.
@SOSConcern She does well in math and would like to study it in college but doesn’t really know what she’d like to do for a career. We live in a smaller town where kids tend to stay in the area for college, usually within a couple hour drive. DD would really like to go somewhere else, explore another part of the USA, etc. She’s a pretty easygoing kid and hasn’t expressed any size constraints. We have visited one big university and one smaller liberal arts college and she said she could see herself happy in either of those types of settings.
So now she has Univ of Alabama, Univ of Rochester, Tulane, GWU, BU, and a latest addition, Lafayette College, on her list. She knows that they are all very different and we may not get a chance to visit them but they all have potential merit (we think) and she says she could fit in anywhere. We’ll see!
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DD is starting on her Univ of Alabama application this weekend.
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She will start it and finish it this weekend…lol…the whole app only takes 5 minutes. No essays, no LORs. She’ll have it done with a few keystrokes. Then send transcripts and scores.
What is her major and career goal?
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We are too far away for him to actually attend game
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That may change. Bama parents are known to come from afar for games… Right @malanai ? (he comes from Hawaii to go to games…and his child has already graduated from Bama!)
With a full tuition award from Bama, your H may calculate that traveling for a game may not be too crazy. lol
Love it! I will let him know that attending a few games may be in his near future.
Regarding her major, she is considering math. It’s her best (and favorite) subject. She just isn’t sure what type of career to pursue with it. She’ll have time to figure that out. We’ve heard that many college students end up changing their minds after freshman year so we’ll wait and see.
If I were you, I’d encourage her to take a look at a few (2-3) of the Ivy’s, as well as schools like UVa and U of Michigan. Possibly Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, and maybe UNC. Duke and Northwestern as well. There are online (anonymous) calculators on the Ivy admission sites that would show you the price if she were admitted.
Maybe you’re doing that anyway, but I can’t tell from your post. You said she’s hardworking; I think that some extra work in applying to maybe six or seven of those schools would have a better-than-decent chance of paying off. BTW, on your list, Richmond and GWU both have reputations for being extraordinarily expensive on the sticker price.
In your daughter’s case, with only 100 students, whatever ranking information there is doesn’t carry the same weight as the GPA from a large high school. I’m curious about what your guidance people say/imply about your daughter. Sometimes people in those positions can be dismissive of test scores if they indicate a student is a great deal more able than the teachers and they have “decided” in the past.
I don’t think the “slacker” issue will apply here, unless a recommendation letter implies it. It typically applies more classically to males than females anyway.
As noted above by others, there are any number of schools hungry for high scoring matriculants who will essentially let you attend for free. That’s a great deal, but you owe it to yourself to ensure that you’ve fully explored the alternatives (by applying and giving them a chance to say yes). Its worth the cost and effort of the applications.
Is this a private high school? If she’s really in the top 20%, I can’t imagine any college considering her a “slacker” and I’d bet none of her recommendations will say that either. I wouldn’t worry so much about her GPA. I think she’ll be competitive for a lot of merit scholarships.
There are a bunch of LACs where she would very likely get merit aid in the $15-$25K range–you might check on the women’s colleges–especially Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke. Also Muhlenberg, Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon.
I’d check again on the college profile. It’s hard to believe her school doesn’t provide a grade distribution at all. The school may calculate each class separately and not have her specific class yet, but I bet they have last year’s class. You might ask.
That may change. Bama parents are known to come from afar for games… Right 