<p>My son (HS junior) does not want to major in engineering. He wants a more broad based college education. Every career test he takes points to Engineering / working with ideas career. </p>
<p>My question to those with experience -- If all these indicators are correct and he decides 5 years from now he does want to do engineering, then what are his options without getting a second bachelor's degree? What college courses should I gently pressure him to take to aid in making an informed decision?</p>
<p>What majors/career choices outside of engineering are worth considering for someone who likes working with ideas?</p>
<p>FWIW - He is considering a GAP Year for many reasons.</p>
<p>Engineering students typically have about 1/4 of their course work in required math and science, and another 1/5 to 1/4 in required humanities and social studies. If the student enters with usable AP credit, then that can be used to free up space for more free electives.</p>
<p>The 3+2 programs offered at some LACs and universities with engineering may be a way to get a few more non-engineering courses, if that is desired. A cheaper way to do that, if the student just wants to sample more subjects at the introductory (not advanced) level, is to start at community college, but spend an extra year or two there taking additional courses in areas of interest before transferring to complete an engineering bachelor’s degree. However, both of these routes involve transferring, which may not be optimal for students who may not want to transfer away from their comfort zone and friends at their first school.</p>
<p>Sometimes, physics majors do work in some areas of engineering after graduation. Math and statistics majors sometimes work in computer software or industrial engineering and operations research after graduation. In either case, careful selection of upper level electives would be desirable for this purpose. There would also be disadvantages of not having ABET accreditation (most needed for civil and environmental) and not being as heavily recruited as those with actual ABET accredited engineering degrees.</p>
<p>There is a very small number of schools with ABET accredited master’s degree programs in engineering.</p>
<p>He should make sure he takes the required prereqs for math and sciences for an engineering degree. Cal I, II & III, The first two Physics courses, the first two Chem courses and the first Computer Programming courses. A CAD course and an EE course would be nice too. If he decides that he wants to switch to an Engineering major whether by his Junior year or as a second degree he would be ready to jump in. Or if he decides to go into business he would be ideally positioned to work for an engineering company maybe in sales or purchasing or something.</p>
<p>Does he enjoy science and math? If he majors in science, he probably could finish a related engineering major in two additional years post-BS. “Working with ideas” could mean many things. However, while liking science/math is necessary to like engineering, it isn’t sufficient. So he may not know whether he likes it until he starts doing the engineering part. </p>
<p>If he has a STRONG interest in science, there are many reasons why it may be an advantage to major in science and do engineering later. For instance, for more physics-based electrical engineering you are better off majoring in physics than electrical engineering. For material science engineering, a chemistry major would be a strong jumping off point. </p>
<p>The most common mistake parents make when forcing/coercing their kids into engineering is thinking that fields are completely distinct and that if you train in one you can’t apply it to another (or that no one will hire you in one field if you don’t have a major which is exactly that field.) For example, you can get into a material science grad program with a chem major. A math major would be excellent preparation for economics grad school. Another mistake is thinking that two fields are the same because they have the same word in them; for instance, that chemical engineering is the same as chemistry except you get paid better. </p>
<p>If he is considering engineering later, he should take math through calculus (or multi-variable), chemistry, and physics. These will be pre-reqs for any engineering discipline. You don’t want to start from scratch as a post-bac. And frankly, if you want a “broad education,” you should have mastered these subjects.</p>
<p>If the OP could be more specific as to what their son likes, people could be of more help to him…</p>
<p>^Those career choice surveys that guidance counselors give out in high school are not very useful IMO. The “working with ideas/engineering” group might encompass half the professions that someone with a college education would do.</p>
<p>ucbalum-
Must disagree, though different U’s may haev differeent required courses.</p>
<p>Son is engineering major. Other than the 5 required courses (arts, English, History) every other course is mandatory (science, engineering, math). No room at all for electives. FYI- he came into college with 45 AP credits given by his school, has had enough credits to graduate after Sophomore year. Any other major, he would have finished in 2 or just over 2 years. It will take full 4 years to get engineering degree and you can do the math to figure out his total credits!</p>
<p>My kids always got really weird results - my younger son swears he answered honestly and it said he should be a garbage man! Older son (dedicated comp sci kid since he was seven) was advised to try meteorology. No real advice on engineering or not, I think some schools (like Tufts) you can switch to engineering if you take enough prerequisites.</p>
<p>When he graduates ,how would he compare with kids who majored In Engineering from the time they began college ? Would he not appear as strong a candidate as someone who started sooner ?</p>
<p>Son really has no idea what he wants to major in. He wants everything from philosophy to music. He wants a LAC. No interest in 3/2 programs.</p>
<p>He does VERY well in math and engineering courses. He loves the projects in mechanical engineering courses, but has no desire to become an engineer.</p>
<p>I think - not he thinks - that he will come around to engineering. He never takes a straight path. My goal is to gently guide him to take science/math that he would need down the road if he does decide on engineering. Kind of putting the cart before the horse, but I went to a STEM and watched far too many go back and take science courses shortly after graduation because they realized Med School or PharmD was for them. </p>
<p>crazed – My son’s brief 2 weeks at looking into engineering ended with him saying there was no room for electives in music, psych,etc. Then he dropped looking at engineering.</p>
<p>My son had the same concerns about engineering school. He is doing a double major in computer science and math through the College of Arts and Sciences at UVA (students can elect to major in CS either through A & S or the Engineering School). That’s given him plenty of time to pursue a variety of electives. Cornell University, and I’m sure other schools as well, also offer Computer Science from either Engineering or Arts/Sciences.</p>
Not really. In fact he may have some advantages, like being a better writer. He may also have worked his way around to some combination of his interests, like designing synthesizers or something.</p>
<p>I disagree with “no room for electives in music, physch, etc”. My D is at a traditional tech school, majoring in engineering and minoring in Spanish. If she wanted to, she could minor in Music, Art, etc. It depends upon the school. She ruled out at least 2 schools since their Humanities courses were weak or did not exist. She is also in the Chorus. The shcool ahs a very active orchestra and theater program, but you can not major in Humanities, but you are required to take several Humanities courses.</p>
<p>He needs to shop around, and not rule out all engineering schools.</p>
<p>DD majored in engineering, second major in biology. She played in the orchestra and took instrument lessons all four years. Her school had a core course requirement that included courses from all disciplines. She felt like she got a very well rounded education… And college experience. I agree…shop around.</p>
<p>He should definitely look around at other engineering schools. In undergrad I had a number of friends that doubled in engineering and a liberal arts field. A quick sampling includes psychology, design, and music performance. And I went to a school that’s very well known for being mostly STEM majors.</p>
<p>Well, you are going to have a hard time getting him to major in engineering then :-). </p>
<p>Many engineering departments prefer students to apply to the engineering school directly, and it is harder to switch into engineering later on (though not impossible, and varies widely with department and with the University). There are a few places with less rigid boundaries between engineering and nonengineering departments, allowing you to declare pretty late (e.g., Tufts and Brown). I know nothing about engineering at LACs.</p>
<p>With respect to being able to do engineering and still take other classes, my knowledge is limited Virginia Tech. Different engineering departments have more opportunities for electives than others, for example, chemical engineering appears to have more requirements than some of the others. In general, if you come in with lots of AP credits (calculus, chemistry, physics, history, english, etc.) you can knock out many general education and beginning science/math requirements. With this as a basis, for mechanical engineering for example, you then have room for approximately 20 ‘electives’ if you take 6 courses a year. 3-4 of these will be the remaining general education requirements (including music and philosophy and …), and 5 of these have to be approved technical electives, but these can be in math or physics or chemistry, etc. Also 5 of these electives are during your senior year, so are not very useful if looking at other majors. And, this is the minimum for graduation - you might want to take more engineering courses to better prepare for subsequent job or graduate school search. </p>
<p>This still adds up to 12 courses without any restrictions (1-2/semester), and the full 20 if you include the general education and technical electives (2-3/semester).</p>
<p>I have one data point on this topic. Myself. Like your DS, I had aptitude, but no desire, to go into engineering as an undergrad. Ended up getting my BA at UVA, majoring in Mathematics, but my true loves were Astronomy and Government/Foreign Affairs. After college, I served with the US Navy for four years, mostly as an engineering officer (not out of choice, I may add!) aboard two different ships, where I learned “real world” engineering (power and electrical distribution systems). I got out of the Navy and went back to grad school with maturity, experience, and a different outlook on academia - this time getting my MS in Mechanical Engineering from Georgia Tech. I think I took one extra quarter’s worth of work in grad school to make up for my lack of undergraduate engineering credits. I’ve been doing technical work and management ever since.</p>
<p>That said, I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the perspectives that I got through my BA degree. Specifically, foreign language and understanding different cultures - traditional BA degrees - turned out to be keys to success in working in a global, technical environment. I agree with other posters that Humanities coupled with technical skills will prove invaluable to employers in the future. YMMV ;)</p>
<p>I’d like to pitch in here too. (I’m almost 3/4ths of my way through a undergrad engineering program) </p>
<p>There are other options after engineering school if you finish engineering and you don’t want to have a career in engineering. At my school, finance firms/IBs have hired engineering majors on the premise that they think engineers can handle their kind of work. I once sat through a top IB firm’s recruiting session where the rep said, “We’ll hire any engineer, even ChemE’s, if we think you can do our work!” (IOEs and CS majors are more common though) Some engineers - I’ve known one - have applied to and enrolled in top law schools, because law schools seem to like our so-called ability to apply skills and problem solve. There are some who join the Armed Forces, but that’s rare at my school. Biomedical engineers also have an inclination to apply to med school.</p>
<p>If he is that ambivalent about enrolling in engineering, he should consider a school that is strong in many fields. That is one of the reasons I chose Michigan instead of U Chicago because Michigan is so versatile and at the time I really did not know what I would end up doing - I kept swinging from econ to math, math to computer science, CS to aerospace, aerospace to biomed, etc… For me, I didn’t want to do a gap year and Michigan, though not #1 in any of those fields, is strong in all of those fields (and many more) and wasn’t very expensive for me as an in-state student. UChicago is #1 in Math and Econ, but it doesn’t have an engineering school and the computer science program there is very weak, and the school’s tuition costs twice as much as Michigan’s.</p>
<p>OK…this sentence is key to me. The student does not want to major in engineering. Career tests he takes point in this direction but the KID does not want to major in engineering. That being the case, why WOULD you look for engineering programs?</p>
<p>True story…EVERY (and I mean EVERY) career test I took in high school pointed to a career in nursing or some kind of medicine. I cannot STAND the sight of blood. The notion that I would have chosen a career based on the test when I clearly hated the sight of blood was beyond ridiculous.</p>
<p>It sounds like this student really isn’t sure what he wants to major in. That being the case, look for schools with a broad range of courses of study, AND a good core course requirement.</p>
<p>I honestly no longer remember what those career tests told me. They didn’t really influence my decision in choosing a major/career path in college in the end. </p>
<p>Many people change majors at some point in their college years. (I didn’t though)</p>
<p>When your son gets to college and is scientifically inclined, encourage him to find and join a research project, especially through some sort of freshmen/undergrad research program. Many people participate in this, so it isn’t too special, but research projects can certainly do a good job of helping you pinpoint your interests. (It did for me!) I think those programs are a great time investment - built into tuition as well!</p>