It would be good to figure out your EFC, look at NPC’s and decide on a budget. $10,000 a year , 20, 30, etc.? For us, our budget was up to the instate school cost and our kids knew that when deciding where to apply.
@planner03 how are his math grades and test scores? Is he a procrastinator or good at time management? If he’s solid in these 2 areas (especially math background) I wouldn’t be as concerned with merit aid with a cum GPA requirement of around 3.0 in a non-tippy top engineering program. Would have reservations of over 3.0 requirement. But that’s just me from what we’ve seen among my son and his engineering friends. YMMV of course
Btw, my son wanted big time sports as well, I totally get that. And he’s thoroughly enjoyed that aspect of college
Need based aid would change if income/assets would change.
I believe UA is very generous with AP credits and also gives a grace period to recover your grades so GPA can be met to keep merit.
Even if here was no min GPA requirement at all, wouldn’t an engineering student also have trouble getting internships if GPA gets too low?
How much need based aid would Syracuse give? Northwestern?
Because it really is an important part of choosing a college.
I think you are being too cautious about the merit requiring a certain GPA to retain it (and not all merit aid has that requirement). My daughter has a merit scholarship that requires a 2.8 (a 3.5 requirement would have been a deal killer for us) She’s in engineering and hasn’t had a problem retaining the scholarship. She was not a 4.0 in high school, did not have and ACT score in the 30’s, but she studies, goes to office hours, joins study groups, talks to kids who have taken the class/prof before. She has another scholarship (through the state) that requires a 3.0, which doesn’t adjust if the major is astrophysics or underwater basket weaving. If she loses the merit scholarship (the big one), she’ll have to transfer to another school. We still thought it was worth the risk as she wanted to have a GPA well above the minimum, and wanted to go to this school. Taking the risk has worked out and she’s never been close to losing the scholarship. We didn’t find any schools where the need based aid was better than merit.
If you didn’t need merit or need based aid, what would be the perfect school for your son? ND? Clemson? Does he need a good D1 team or is a not-so-good team with all the same bells and whistles (band, tailgating, some mascot running around the field) what he wants? What are the factors that are most important to you when selecting a school? Finances, location, major, ranking, size, football success, days of sunshine/inches of snow? If one is high on the list, that’s probably going to push another way down the list; i.e. if you want a smaller school, the football may not be that good unless he can get into ND. If you don’t want the south, the sunshine factor is going to take a hit.
We had a list of the things she wanted, but finances trumped all. We tried to get as many of the other things as we could, and she wanted to play lax, but to do that she had to give up D1 (or at least D1 at a ranked level; she could have played for several D1 schools that are academically and athletically lower ranked with full scholarships). No regrets.
Let me back up the Lehigh suggestion with data
http://www.lehigh.edu/~oir/cds/lucds2015.htm
At the bottom, click tab CDS-C.
A few things to notice
- The overall admissions rate for men was 28% in 2015 (2019 accepted/7299 applied)
- Under C7, the most important criteria was rigor of secondary school record. Next most important is standardized test scores, and notice that academic GPA is only considered - not important. I can’t find another school that does this. This is the reason I suggest this for your son.
- Under C9, you can see that an ACT of 33 is above the 75th percentile of students who enrolled
- Scroll down to C21 and notice that they accepted 582 out of the 999 students that applied early decision (58%).
So you can see that for your son you have
- Division 1 football and basketball (CJ McCollum is an alum)
- Excellent engineering at a research institution
- Meets full demonstrated need
- Your S’s test scores are above the 75th percentile and Lehigh weights those above grades
I think your son has an excellent chance to be admitted early decision.
Check out West Virginia U and UMiami. UMiami does not meet full need, but with your son’s stats he should get merit money plus need based aid. Have him
take the ACT again and if he can get his score to 34, maybe Villanova or Wake Forest might work? We went to WF last summer and they are starting up a new engineering school.
If you are considering Alabama, also consider Alabama-Huntsville (UAH). Outstanding engineering school that faces the rockets at the Space Center. My younger son attends UAH. Has several fraternity brothers who are engineering majors. Many already have jobs as undergrads with Boeing and the many other engineering firms in the city. The school also has an excellent scholarship program. The downer is that sports are not huge, but that could be a trade off for a solid scholarship.
[quoye]How much need based aid would Syracuse give? Northwestern?
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It would be different!
Syracuse does NOT guarantee to meet full need…and they don’t. NorthWESTERN does guarantee to meet full need.
NU is a more competitive school in terms of admissions.
Neither school has pleasing weather! Unless you like the winter.
@mommdc I took him to an admitted student tour with S2 and he did not get a good impression, probably because it was snowing and blowing and freezing cold in March…it really was the most miserable day! I agree that he should take another look. There was a substantial gap for S2, but if he had really wanted to go there I would have been willing to pay. I don’t think admission to Northwestern would be possible.
@ClassicRockerDad Thanks for the information. I agree that Lehigh should be a strong consider.
@JustGraduate He is a bright, lazy, unmotivated kid. This year he is taking Precalc, AP CS, AP USH, AP Physics I, English(H), Statistics (DE) and Computer Integrated Manufacturing. He does not do homework or study. Ever. I expect freshman year to be a huge shock for him, especially in an engineering program, and he will need a semester or two to get in touch with reality so I am wary of gpa restrictions.
@thumper1 Correct, about a 10k+ gap at Syracuse, but it doesn’t do any good to compare to schools he can’t get into.
@planner03 The UMiami merit aid has a 3.0 requirement by the end of sophomore year. This should be doable for most kids who go to class and keep up with the work. Merit money is very plentiful at UM. All of my son’s friends who applied there got at least $19k per year.
I’ve been paying attention to this for a bit and I think you should consider a couple of Ohio schools. First would be Ohio University. I think he would qualify for some merit and perhaps some need based aid. It is MAC school with a good sports culture. The campus is beautiful and they are ABET accredited. Another would be the University of Toledo. They are a suburban school and he would be near the top of the class at least ACT wise. Their ace in the whole is their engineering dept. They have a mandatory co-op program if your son is interested and again they are a division 1 school in the MAC conference.
@londondad Thanks, sounds like a good option.
I love Ohio…but if he is looking for warm weather…he isn’t going to find it there…except in June, July and August.
@planner03 sounds like you are very aware of his challenges, good for you. My concern then would be if he will get a good enough background in HS to succeed in an engineering program, even if he’s willing to do the work. My son’s HS math dept was not well regarded, with good reason it turns out. Even though he had good grades + test scores, his math background has made engineering much more challenging than he’d like. But if your son goes to a bigger school with many options of majors, he should at least have choices for a Plan B if needed. Precalc + AP Physics will be good gauges for college preparation
Ohio U + Toledo are good suggestions, hadn’t thought of those. Toledo as a city isn’t anything to write home about but it’s doing better from what I hear. And the U is holding its own if not on an upswing. Should have decent options for internships, it’s still fairly industrial given it’s proximity to Detroit (which IS doing better). Ohio U is in a pretty area, not much else around it which could be good or bad. MAC (Mid American Conference) would give him good sports options.
If he wants sports and a warm climate, I would think most of the SEC schools would fit. They may not have the prestige of, say, MIT or Cal Tech, but their graduates will be able to find jobs in the region.
For more prestige, look at Georgia Tech or Texas A&M. Both are filled with passionate sports fans.
Or VA Tech.
Problem is…schools like VA Tech, GA Tech and Texas A and M…they don’t give a lot of need based aid to OOS students…and the cost for OOS is expensive.
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And because I know it will be asked…finances:
Need FA so OOS publics without aid are out of the question.
Pitt is a good choice but I don’t think the money would work.
am not looking for merit. I am looking for need based aid but unfortunately it does not seem like it is going to be easy to find an engineering/football school that he can get into that offers need based aid since they tend to be OOS publics.
an ACT 33 isn’t “special”.
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Ahh…not looking for merit. Since most OOS publics only give merit aid, I thought that was also a goal.
My point about the ACT 33 was in regards to merit at top schools. He likely can get into some top schools.
If you’ve run the NPCs on a variety of better schools’ websites and you’re happy with the results, then super! Are you happy with the NPC results?
You are very right that nearly all schools with eng’g and popular football teams are publics.
Have you talked again with your son about what he wants?
If he can’t get into a better eng’g school with football with adequate aid, then what is his next choice??
I think U of Central Florida is a good suggestion. Not expensive, they offer merit aid, there is a D1 sports program. Smaller schools are Florida International and Florida Atlantic, both just hired new football coaches.