<p>Hi,
Is it really unusual/hard to go to either Business or Medical Grad school for an undergraduate engineering because of its low gps the students get??
I heard that it would be better for me to go to under engineering and then grad business schools so I could have much more options for jobs...</p>
<p>B-schools are absolutely FILLED with engineers. Generally something like 20-35% of the incoming classes of the elite B-schools consist of people from engineering backgrounds, a remarkable figure when you consider that only 5% of all bachelor's degrees given out in the US are engineering degrees. B-schools in general don't care that much about GPA.</p>
<p>Med-school does tend to be somewhat difficult for engineers because of the grading. That's why I say that if you want to get an engineering degree but you're thinking of going to med-school, you should want to go to an engineering program that grades relatively leninently (at least, relative to other engineering programs). A certain school in Palo Alto immediately comes to mind.</p>
<p>" it really unusual/hard to go to either Business or Medical Grad school "</p>
<p>Getting into business school is easy!!! Business programs are the most easily accessible programs in the whole country....anybody can get an MBA.</p>
<p>Getting into MED-SCHOOL--- aaahhh, that's the REAL/GOLDEN question! Engineers get shafted from med schools for several reasons. In fact, uggio pointed out that only 2% of engineers eventually end up in a med school.</p>
<p>Daaaaang! That's really harsh. Doesn't that depend on the school and student though? I read somewhere that Rose-Hulman has an acceptance rate of 85%+ each year for medical school. Last year it was somewhere in the 90s. But Rose-Hulman is just one school. Rice, the school I'm going to next fall, has an excellent acceptance rate as well. But then again, it's dependent on the major as well.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/hpao/Greenbk%20Pg%205%2002new.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.vanderbilt.edu/hpao/Greenbk%20Pg%205%2002new.htm</a>
<a href="http://vpr.tamu.edu/prospectus/facts.html%5B/url%5D">http://vpr.tamu.edu/prospectus/facts.html</a></p>
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In fact, uggio pointed out that only 2% of engineers eventually end up in a med school.
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<p>Even if that's true (and I'd like to see this claim documented), that's actually a very good number! Why? Simple. According to the Department of Education, about 1.3 million people earn bachelor's degrees in the US. Yet, according to AMCAS, only 17,000 people enter US medical schools every year. That's about 1.5%. So if it's really true that 2% of engineers are getting into med-school that is actually SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER than the national average. In fact, it's about 25% higher. </p>
<p>Now of course it is true that some people don't enter med-school right after they graduate. Some people work for a few years and then matriculate. But that doesn't really change the numbers, it moves the numbers around bit. It still means that about 1.5% of all bachelor's degree receipients are entering med-school. Some people who matriculate into med-school this year completed their bachelor's degree from years previous. However, some people who complete their bachelor's degree this year will matriculate in med-school in future years. Hence, it's a wash.</p>
<p>According to the UVA School of Engineering and Applied Science (SEAS) Annual Report, which tracks where its engineering graduates go each year, 7 of the 2004 engineering graduates and 3 of the 2005 engineering graduates went on to medical school (out of a class of about 400). Nobody was listed as going into an MBA program in either year, which does seem surprising. </p>
<p>Actually, as I think about it folks pursuing an MBA would probably need to work a couple of years first to get into a good program, so this isn't so odd after all.</p>
<p>Yeah, and when they do go get their MBA's,, most of them don't exactly ring up their old undergrad alma mater to tell them what they're doing. Let's face it. After you've graduated and been working for awhile, you don't really care that much what happens at your old college.</p>
<p>"Daaaaang! That's really harsh. Doesn't that depend on the school and student though? I read somewhere that Rose-Hulman has an acceptance rate of 85%+ each year for medical school. Last year it was somewhere in the 90s. But Rose-Hulman is just one school. Rice, the school I'm going to next fall, has an excellent acceptance rate as well. But then again, it's dependent on the major as well."</p>
<p>Yeah, the 85% acceptance rate into med school is true for most Ivies and other good schools....but the thing is, it includes students with majors such as biochem etc.....those are the ones that REALLY get into med school with ease...the engineers are not looked upon favorably by med school directors and get shafted whereever they apply.</p>
<p>The trick is, if you're an engineer, you should apply to at least 30-40 med schools to make sure you get into at least one of them. ...of course, that's assuming you have a decent GPA and MCAT, which may be hard to get because engineering courses don't prepare you for medical programs.</p>
<p>"B-schools in general don't care that much about GPA."</p>
<p>Don't top B-Schools? I would like to go into Law or Business after my BSc in engineering. For business, would it be better to major in commerce or engineering? My goal is to become extremely rich; I am mainly asking about money-making options here.</p>
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includes students with majors such as biochem etc.....those are the ones that REALLY get into med school with ease...
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<p>Who "really" get in with ease? I don't think so. Biochem tends to be a quite difficult major to get a high GPA in. If you really want to get a high GPA, you should major in one of those creampuff humanities majors. In fact, I seem to recall reading somewhere how certain humanities majors have the highest success rate of applicants getting into med-school.</p>
<p>But you said it yourself - if 2% of all engineers are getting into med-school, then that is VASTLY HIGHER then the national average. </p>
<p>In any case, that's a very funny thing. I seem to strongly recall you saying before that you recommend that people should choose a major that will get them a high GPA (presumably to get in But here you are recommending biochem, which is certainly not a particularly easy major in get a high GPA in. What's up with that?</p>
<p>Awww yeeeuh some sh|t's goin' down!</p>
<p>"In fact, I seem to recall reading somewhere how certain humanities majors have the highest success rate of applicants getting into med-school."</p>
<p>When did I say that somebody should major in "film" to prepare them for med school??? </p>
<p>The bulk of my arguments are that you should NOT major in EE or CSC or any engineering as a preparation for med school!!! because...</p>
<h1>1 - you GPA will be much lower than your biochem counterparts</h1>
<h1>2 - med school directors may toss your app in the trash before looking at it</h1>
<h1>3 - you'll have ZERO preparation for med school....knowing a fast fourier transfor won't help you in the MCAT when they ask you how many carbon atoms there are in sucrose.</h1>
<p>in summary, don't expect to get into med school from engineering UNLESS</p>
<h1>1 - YOU make sure you take the premed courses along with the CS/EE ones</h1>
<h1>2 - are prepared to be in ugrad school for at least 1 more year</h1>
<h1>3 - your parent's can't help you with med school fees, and you won't get any fianancial aid, AND you plan to work in a tech company to supplement your income</h1>
<h1>4 - you don't mind going to a lesser med school due to rejections from the top ones due to your major</h1>
<p>MBA degrees are everywhere. They're just about the cheapest degrees in the market...you can get one just by paying the school and showing up for class. Medical degrees are the golden tickets!! MBA degrees sometimes aren't worth the paper they're printed on.</p>
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The bulk of my arguments are that you should NOT major in EE or CSC or any engineering as a preparation for med school!!! because...</p>
<h1>1 - you GPA will be much lower than your biochem counterparts</h1>
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<p>And your GPA will be even higher if you major in something even easier. Like film studies. So by your logic, you shouldn't major in biochem either. </p>
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</p>
<h1>2 - med school directors may toss your app in the trash before looking at it</h1>
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<p>And why exactly would that happen? I've known a number of people who've majored in English, PoliSci, and other standard liberal arts who have gotten into med-school. Why would these med-schools throw out apps from engineers but not from English majors? </p>
<p>Besides, you were the one who said that 2% of engineers were getting into med-school. I have pointed out that that's significantly higher than the national average of those who get into med-school. If med-schools were really throwing out the apps of engineers, wouldn't the percentage of engineers getting into med-school be LOWER than the national average? </p>
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</p>
<h1>3 - you'll have ZERO preparation for med school....knowing a fast fourier transfor won't help you in the MCAT when they ask you how many carbon atoms there are in sucrose.
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<p>And the same thing is true of those people who majored in English, PoliSci, and so forth. Yet I see that many of these 'unprepared' people got into med-school. Explain that?</p>
<p>In any case, at least we've gotten somewhere, aehmo. I have asked you many times to name a specific undergrad major that you think is good. You have finally done so - biochem. So let me see if I got this right. You believe that EVERYBODY in the world who doesn't major in biochem is being dumb, right? So all those people majoring in English, math, physics, polisci, history, economics, busad, etc. - you think all these people are dumb, because according to you, they're supposedly not maximizing their chances to get into med-school. Is that what you're saying? And again, according to the Department of Education, since biology majors represent at most 2% of all bachelor's degree recipients, that must mean that 98% of all college grads are dumb, right?</p>
<p>To reinforce what I've been saying, I would point interested readers to Myths 24 and 25 of the following Stanford premed doc.</p>
<p><a href="http://questscholars.stanford.edu/oldstuff/activities/professional/pre-%5B/url%5D">http://questscholars.stanford.edu/oldstuff/activities/professional/pre-</a>
med_letter/premed-letter-2001-2-pdf.pdf</p>
<p>I would also direct people to the MDapplicants website where you can see the anonymous results of the many med-school applicants. You will notice that many accepted applicants did not major in biology.</p>
<p>So I have to ask again, if med-schools are really throwing away the apps of engineering students, then why aren't they also throwing away the apps of, say, humanities students? If GPA is so important, isn't it easier to get a higher GPA in a humanities or a social science than in biochem, a notoriously grade deflated weeder? If biochem really prepares you so well for the MCAT, then why is it that all these thousands of non-biochem majors are getting into med-school?</p>
<p>correct me if I'm wrong, but whether you're a humanities, engineering, or writing or anything major, if you want premed there are still certain courses you have to take. So you can be humanities, but you still have to take and do well in the "premed" courses, or you wont get into the medschool no matter how high your gpa in humanities is. I'm sure med schools take into account the classes you take rather than looking at just the GPA and moving on, probably putting the most weight on the specific premed courses. Now, beyond the basic premed courses would an engineering degree help you? probably not, but I doubt it would hurt you that much either since they can take into account the classes that you took.</p>
<p>Yep, gatordan, you are exactly right, every premed has to take a certain number of base courses. </p>
<p>But the point is, BEYOND those courses, it doesn't matter. Taking courses in advanced biochemistry isn't going to help you on the MCAT. </p>
<p>The truth is, the MCAT material is really not very advanced. Scoring highly on the MCAT is difficult because of the time pressure and the fact that your scored is scaled relative to everybody else who takes the exam. But the material of the exam is not that advanced, and can be covered by anybody by anybody who has taken basic Chem, basic Bio, basic physics, and OChem, and some classes that involve writing (for the writing sample). </p>
<p>What has been asserted by aehmo is that getting a biochem degree is somehow better than getting an engineering degree for the purposes of getting into med-school. This is almost assuredly false, something that I am quite certain of which the doctors here on CC, like PSedrish would agree. One might say that engineering coursework doesn't really help you score higher on the MCAT. That's true. On the other hand, neither does biochem coursework beyond those basic premed requirements. For those who care to dispute this (especially aehmo), again, why not take this question to the premed section of CC and ask the doctors there what they think about it? </p>
<p>Look, the pont is, students from all walks of life get into med-school. I've seen engineering students get into med-school. I've seen Economics students get into med-school. I've even seen Peace and Conflict Studies students get into med-school. Yes, a lot of biology/biochemistry majors get into med-school, but that's just because a lot of people who want to go to med-school CHOOSE biology/biochem, not because biology/biochem has some innate advantage in getting people to med-school. Similarly, a lot of people who want to go to law school choose to major in English or PoliSci. </p>
<p>I believe that according to the AMCAS numbers, something like 45% of all med-school applicants who major in the biological sciences will get into some medical-school (hence 55% get rejected from every single med-school they apply to). Compare that to something like 50% of the physical science majors (which includes engineering, physics and chemistry), and 52-53% of all humanities majors and math majors who apply and get in somewhere. Hence, it seems to me that biology majors have no advantage in terms of getting into med-school. If they did, then why is it that 55% of those who apply get in nowhere? </p>
<p>So yes, it is true that lots of biological science majors get into med-school, but that's only because lots of them APPLY. It doesn't mean that YOU as an individual student should expect to get into med-school just because you major in biology. If you think that you will, go ahead and tell that to the majority (the 55%) of biology majors who applied to med-school in 2005 and didn't get in anywhere.</p>
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[quote]
in summary, don't expect to get into med school from engineering UNLESS</p>
<h1>1 - YOU make sure you take the premed courses along with the CS/EE ones</h1>
<h1>2 - are prepared to be in ugrad school for at least 1 more year</h1>
<p>#3 - your parent's can't help you with med school fees, and you won't get any fianancial aid, AND you plan to work in a tech company to supplement your income</p>
<h1>4 - you don't mind going to a lesser med school due to rejections from the top ones due to your major
[/quote]
</h1>
<p>Um, can someone please elaborate as to how #3 makes any sense at all?</p>
<p>i'm guessing he means because Engineers make much better money out of school, and will go alot further to paying the bills than a poli sci degree. I don't necessarily agree with that though.</p>
<p>Sakky, isn't it possible that low G.P.A. students in biochem would be more likely to apply to med school than similarly low GPA students in the hard sciences. </p>
<p>You and I can both agree that a much larger percentage of students in bio/biochem intend on going into medicine. So if students in these majors don't have high GPAs, they may still apply in order to keep their dream alive. On the other hand, many of the students from majors such as engineering may only decide to apply if they feel that their GPAs truly meet the requirements. Thus, while the bio/biochem acceptance percentage might be lower, there are definitely lurking variables which account for that. </p>
<p>In the end, I'm assuming that if corrected for the various factors, the bottom line is that students with high GPAs are accepted into med school while those without high gpas, are rejected, regardless of difficulty of major, as you have stated many a time.</p>