<p>Btw...I think the Peak article may be a year or two old. Kerr-McGee doesn't exist anymore and crude hasn't been $41/bbl in a while. Still promising outlook for grads however.</p>
<p>Regarding an engineering degree versus an engineering technology degree, these are not the same and many companies who hire engineers would not hire someone with an engineering technology degree. Others will hire them, but will not give them the same advancement/work opportunities. Especially true of companies that are very engineering heavy/oriented. I think it reflects feelings of their engineers who view engineering technology as a cheap imitation (didn't require the rigorous math and science, as well as advanced theortical engineering courses that they had to endure to prove themselves.) That being said, I think the engineering technology degree is the right way to go for some. Just don't expect the same opportunities that a regular engineering degree would bring.</p>
<p>I don't know this guy's academic abilities that well--he's not my son. He could probably make it through an engineering program if 25% or more of the graduates ahd less than a 1000 SAT score. He's passing subjects in a good prep school.</p>
<p>Agreed that an engineering degree is is tough and has better long term prospects. What is the difference between petro and geo and mechanical enginnering programs? He's the kind of kid who likes to take things apart--but I am not sure about his instinctual chemistry ability.</p>
<p>cheers - there are several phases in the exploitation of oil and gas resources. Geologists are more about actually finding the reserves with petroleum(reservoir) and other engineers/scientists are about assessing and producing.</p>
<p>This is good explanation from the sci-tech encyclopedia section of answers.com
<a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/petroleum-engineering?cat=technology%5B/url%5D">http://www.answers.com/topic/petroleum-engineering?cat=technology</a></p>
<p>As you can see, there are many, many opportunities for guys who like to take things apart. My husband worked for oil companies every summer before he graduated...every job from pumper to offshore hand to tech in an office...and it gave him great opportunity to see where his interests lay. (And he made a ton of money...between his athletic scholarship and his summer jobs, he completely financed his own education.)</p>
<p>Other options for engineering degrees that come to mind are Louisiana Tech which is located in Ruston and University of Louisiana in Lafayette. UL would likely have the least competitive admissions requirements, and would not have the prestige factor of Colorado School of Mines, but the great thing about their programs, especially as they relate to the energy industry, is the great employment connections. We lived in Lafayette for 10 years and it is a major hub for offshore operations for many majors and independents. And it's a lovely town with wonderful culture and food. (Don't be fooled by the view from I-10.) The UL campus is very historic and pretty as well. <a href="http://cos.fit.edu/math/ichsa/images/ULLafayette.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://cos.fit.edu/math/ichsa/images/ULLafayette.jpg</a>
People often work in Lafayette for a few years and ultimately end up in Houston or Dallas. (Though I'd go back to Lafayette in a split-second...I love that town.)</p>
<p>LaTech is in northern Louisiana and is well-known for their engineering programs, and also offers many tech programs as well. I have to agree that it would be better to shoot for that engineering degree rather than tech degree. I don't think there is any reason why your young man should settle...there is an engineering program out there for him and he just has to find it. </p>
<p>Both schools offer mechanical engineering degrees and these grads do find employment in the oil and gas industry as well, if he should have an interest in that area.</p>
<p>(Though it pains to even mention their name, LSU probably offers engineering degrees as well...lol!)</p>
<p>I asked my H what the starting salary was for engineers who have had significant co-op experience at his auto company. He thinks it's somewhere around $55k. A $20k loan will not be difficult to pay off if in first several years out of college debtor lives within his means.</p>
<p>For those who think engineers will make tons of money in the long run, that may not be so. Of course, many do. But ... many engineers are NOT managers ... or should I say, do not make good managers and/or simply do not wish to be managers (they actually enjoy being engineers, and the skills necessary for that are not always the skills necessary for management). Those who prefer not to take the management route become a bit limited in terms of moving up. H is one of those non-management types --- he has NO interest in being anyone's boss. He has received steady raises (although income has gone down due steady loss of benefits ... but that's the state of the auto industry today). He loves his job. He makes good, though not excellent money. This is what MOST engineers will find in their lives. It's a good living, but six figures is not what the majority of engineers are seeing.</p>
<p>kelsmom - I should probably reiterate that my statement about salaries was regarding a specific industry and engineering specialties. Six figures after ten years, (at least low 100s), is pretty much the standard in the oil and gas industry.... but I'm not sure about pay scales in other industries, so you make a good point. Because there is a shortage of engineers and qualified technical personnel in the energy industry, it is actually very difficult to avoid the management track, even if only on a project level. Pay scales are high due to competition for a scarce resource.</p>
<p>I do agree that there are very high paying fields for engineers, and that there are engineers who make excellent money (I know quite a few who do). I just want to make sure that people understand that the majority of engineers make very good money ... but they aren't going to get rich.</p>
<p>Check out Southern Illinois University as it also has a program called Project Achieve which is a structured support program for students with LD/ADD etc.</p>
<p>kelsmom - I completely agree. And many people go into engineering because they love engineering! It is good cautionary advice to keep in mind, often in some industries, as a one's career progresses, you lose that opportunity to do that pure engineering. My husband, who has a degree in petroleum, no long does any engineering and doesn't mind; though he has days where he longs for it. His career is satisfying; but many may find the tradeoff (money for passion) something they aren't willing to make. It doesn't always happen, but it's very good advice to consider this aspect of the profession.</p>
<p>Engineers, in my observation, (married to an EE, parent of a budding EE) tend to make very good starting salaries and continue to have very decent to excellent salaries. They <em>don't</em> tend to receive what I will call wealth-producing compensation packages - as might some of those in Investment Banking, some attornies, some in the sports and entertainment fields. But then, how many fields offer those types of compensation packages?</p>
<p>A lot of Engineers seem to continue to feel the passion for their field. My H and his close friends enjoy talking about arcane technical matters at the oddest moments, such when they are relaxing on the beach on vacation, which always amuses and amazes me.</p>
<p>It's true that sometimes there is a need to rise out of the Engineering into management to get the higher compensation. Although some firms have tried to create "Technical Guru" advancement paths to address this issue.</p>
<p>In some fields, Engineers find the wealth-producing element via stock options in start-ups. You don't have to have been the founder of Google or other household-name firms to partake in this. (Actually you don't have to be an Engineer either - everyone in such firms from the janitor to the HR staff should give serious consideration to stock options if offered).</p>
<p>If community college is out, you could also consider Landmark College for the first two years. Might get him through the general ed courses more easily. Lots of structure there.</p>
<p>Thanks! Good news--he's going to visit an engineering (mines) school this weekend--with his best friend and his family. The Best Friend is a brilliant student.</p>
<p>Fingers crossed.</p>
<p>jmmom...I know what you mean about engineers. My eyes glaze over for most of those discussions although I do love geology stories. The drama!</p>
<p>A big chunk of the artistic side of my job is pushing engineers to go to the limits of their design to produce my innovation. Just this week I was pushing the structural engineer to look up the strength of cryptonite beams for my new tower. Their nervous laughter is priceless. They know I'm not kidding.</p>
<p>Less entertaining was the revised design scheme the fire engineer sent through. Attention all fire engineers: Spare the architect. Keep your architectural design ideas to yourself! :eek:</p>
<p>Engineer salaries depend on the location. For Silicon Valley, owing stock options is what make most engineers rich, not salary. It's not uncommon for the engineers( the ones that I know, all under 40) to have 8-figure networth from stock options. The usual path is to work for a start up and it get bought out by big name company like CISCO and if one is lucky enough, like one of my ex-CEO, get to repeat the same experience twice.</p>
<p>Yea for Mines cheers! I think he and his friend will really like what they find. It's very small and that part is not everyone's cup of tea. But you just can't beat the foothills of the Colorado Rockies and the quality education in a nurturing environment.</p>
<p>jmmom - funny you should mention startup. That's where my husband is in his career and the reason he is on the road so much. And, omg, I'm a CPA but I've had years of engineering-speak forced upon me...and now, unfortunately, I can tell you the difference between drill string and casing, production platform, drilling rig, workover rig....aaargh. But I'll admit, my husband claps his hands over his ears and says 'debitcredit debitcredit' when I get on an accounting topic. So I guess, in our house, it's a tie for who is the most boring person. ;)</p>
<p>He's not visiting Co Mines--it's another one. I've forwarded the info though.</p>
<p>ah...I forget there a couple other schools with Mines in their names. Hope he has a good visit and later perhaps a chance to visit Golden.</p>
<p>cheers, I'm late to this discussion. I know of kids who have similar stats to your friend and they have plenty of options as far as engineering programs. I am familar with schools in Ohio and the midwest but I'm sure that schools such as these exist all over the country.</p>
<p>A great school with very personal attention for the type of student as your friend would be Ohio Northern. Another choice is the University of Dayton, I know a couple of kids who are successful in this program. Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio and Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI are more.</p>
<p>A tech school which offers a lot of personal interactions and kids of all abiliities is Michigan Tech. It's average ACT score is a 25. It does a great job of educating engineers. </p>
<p>Other posibilities are Bradley in IL and the University of Evansville in IN.</p>
<p>University of Denver keeps coming up. I know a kid who desperately wanted an engineering major despite "average" grades (first choice: Lehigh - and he didn't get in). He eventually went to the University of Denver. Last I heard, he loved it. I think, however, that he was a B student in high school, not a C student.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, with engineering, a C student can't usually get into an accredited program. Yes, he deserves that four year residential college experience, but engineering isn't the likely major. The course load is simply too rigorous and the programs, even at a lower level, too selective. A C student, especially one with a LD, is likely to be weeded out by the end of freshman year. It's what engineering programs do. B students in HS have a better chance.</p>
<p>This C student (LD or not) should, of course, pursue his current dream, but he should apply to schools that have other desirable majors/options available to him if he learns that he cannot handle the work. Who knows what will happen to this kid when he gets to college? With the required accommodations for LD students, he might bloom -- and get the best grades of his life in engineering. Or he might find that he prefers chemistry or acting or history. In any case, such a student needs options in case he fails at his first choice. </p>
<p>I agree with several posters about finding a smallish school that provides more individual attention. A LD student, even with accommodations, can get lost in a huge one.</p>
<p>I'll dissent a bit to the prevailing POV. I'd worry about the academics, overall environment, what this kid thinks he can handle and how muchsupport he'll need, etc. first and the specific major way down the road.</p>
<p>I know kids with varying LD's and their college experiences range from exceptional (Cornell engineering; a couple of fantastic coop/internship experiences and a great job offer senior year) to lousy (now fixing bikes at a resort somewhere after a couple of dreadful semesters at U. Hartford.) Cornell Engineering is supposed to be very competitive and cut-throat and yet this kid did fine-- Hartford is supposed to have fantastic LD services and this kid completely got lost in the pack.</p>
<p>So- I wouldn't be worrying about whether Petroleum engineers make more money than Electrical Engineers just yet. Long road to hoe before you get there. I think it's essential that this kid (just like any other kid) identifies a set of priorities and takes the search from there.</p>
<p>Also, what is important to consider is the caliber of h.s. curriculum in which the student is making Cs and if he had access to accommodations while taking these courses. These things will be considered by admissions counselors as well. </p>
<p>(Blossom, I don't think the OP is getting ahead of the game...the conversation just naturally evolved to a discussion of post graduation employment in consideration of the cost of some of the colleges being discussed and the possibility of student loans. For instance, DU is private and cost $40K per year. It is important to ultimately find employment in a career that a person loves, but you make a good point, first things first.)</p>