Engineering or Business

<p>I was recently accepted as a transfer student to Emory University. </p>

<p>All of my life I've had my mind set on studying business. It is what I loved and it came extremely natural to me, persona and all. However recently, I have been questioning my path. </p>

<p>My goal in life is to make a difference in world and ultimately make it a better place for everyone. Call me a dreamer, but it's true. Now for whatever reason, I am beginning to believe that business is selfish. Am I really benefiting anyone but myself and my company (in most careers)? </p>

<p>I randomly took an vague interest in engineering recently. The reason I believe this happened is because 1) it is challenging 2) I am not naturally good at it. I always desire to push myself out of my comfort zone.</p>

<p>Now this sparks the question: is engineering (depending of the exactly focus) more beneficial to society? Enough so that it would make me change majors? I just don't see business as THAT beneficial. </p>

<p>Emory is a top business school. However, they also have a dual major agreement with Georgia Tech that allows the student to receive a degree from Emory liberal arts and Georgia tech engineering. Possibly a major in Econ and engineering? </p>

<p>Do you think that engineering is reasonable path? I just don't want to feel as if I am changing my mind for no reason. </p>

<p>Also, I look forward to grad school for MBA. </p>

<p>Any thoughts would be appreciated. Let me know if you have any questions. </p>

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<p>Welcome to the private sector, engineering included.</p>

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<p>These seem like exceptionally good reasons for you not to major in engineering.</p>

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<p>Depends on what you see is beneficial. Business raises everyone’s standard of living through innovation, but doesn’t “Help people” in the vague freshman premed type way.</p>

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<p>What year are you and do have the prerequisites for engineering (e.g., Calc III, physics, chemistry)? You need to be at Emory for at least a year before starting the business school, which is competitive. The business program would then take two more years. You could also do econ and engineering, but econ isn’t great here and you would need at least two years of full-time study at Emory and two years of full-time study at Georgia Tech. Also, unless you are a Georgia resident, you will have to pay out-of-state tuition at Georgia Tech, which Emory financial aid will not cover. You will not be able to acquire Georgia residency while attending Emory unless you will be over 24 or one (or both) of your parents moves to Georgia and takes a full-time job here.</p>

<p>@aigiqinf
I am going to be a sophmore. I do not have all the prerequisites besides calc 1 and stat. Obviously I have time for that. And my transfer stats were fantastic, so that will help me in my process of getting into business school. Of course I will have to do well at Emory.</p>

<p>It’s not that I don’t love business. I just find engineering to be extremely fascinating and innovative. It is so progressive. I feel as if business is regurgitating something learned in the classroom. Not as innovative. </p>

<p>Also, won’t I be able to receive aid at Gtech regardless? I understand it is out of state, but financial aid still plays a role, right? </p>

<p>@Caliboy1234: Tech is much more stingy with financial aid than elite private schools with lots of money. Also, engineering has the potential to not be “innovative”. I’ll explain…while many courses may have design components, so many limitations are often placed on the scope of the project or assignment to the point where innovation is squashed. In addition. many of the non-R and D sort of courses are essentially drilling/math contests and are not focused on getting you to think creatively or propose solutions so much as shoving content down your throat. It is no different from many of the worst pre-med rote memorization courses, but instead has more of a algorithmic problem solving component (but at least there is a problem solving component I guess, but innovation requires a leap into creative thinking and self-directed research and thought). I would argue that unless you plan to go to Tech and become deeply involved in the parts of the EC scene that focus on inventions and the like, you shouldn’t be so excited about the “innovation” aspect unless you plan to do BME which focuses on problem based learning which indeed is more conducive to inspiring creative thinking. However, with that said…Emory has crap tons of innovation and start-ups happening among the UG student body despite having no engineering school (one girl was just recently featured on Sharktank for her simplified box concept. Her majors are social science/humanities oriented. Go figure! She is also involved with starting up several other types of businesses or initiatives and is partially responsible for the theme of the new freshman dorm, Social Entrepreneurship). It is more or less becoming a movement on this campus. I assert that you could perhaps benefit from being a business major that takes the BEST natural science courses on the side because while engineering courses are indeed challenging, many are still not the right kind of challenging. For example, med. school courses are challenging because it’s so much content that you must memorize. This doesn’t make it rewarding (in fact, there is often poor retention when they are taught exclusively through lecture), just intense to no real benefit (you’re not learning how to apply or think about it in nuanced, real context, you’re learning only how to recall and recognize content and specific scenarios and their components. It’s not an ideal way to learn science). </p>

<p>For example, the best most rigorous, natural, physical, and computational science instructors and courses at Emory will actually teach you how to think about science or whatever creatively such that you will be able to generate your own ideas or grasp on the subject area. These instructors typically focus on giving you projects, open-ended or controversial problems, experimental analysis and design, etc. These qualities are actually kind of rare in many undergraduate STEM classes (hence why the HHMI throws money at institutions, including Emory to develop STEM courses like this) even at many top schools. Usually you may only see those type of STEM courses at the graduate level or very advanced level, but Emory has a fair amount of rare instructors who try to start developing you at the intermediate (and sometimes introductory, if you count the case-based biology instructors like Dr. Spell) level, and there is an attempt to promote even more of this. Some instructors I have taken or know are (course or courses taught are listed in parenthesis beside them): Eisen (cell biology, sometimes epigenetics- primary literature based, case-based, open-ended problems, presentation based), Nemenman (physical biology-open ended problems and very quantitative), Soria (ochem, advanced ochem lab, organometallic sometimes- problem/discussion based, extremely rare for chemistry courses, especially at private schools), Weinert (biochemistry 2, grad. bio-organic. He biochemistry and bio-organic course both make you write and defend actual research proposals), Beck (Organismal form and function, Ecology/Ecology lab. Data analysis based), Yokoyama (advanced molecular genetics-open ended problems that integrate a heavy quantitative biology component), Spell (general biology-case studies, multiple rich learning tools), Calabrese/Jaegar (computational neuroscience and neuroscience simulation lab), Frenzle (NBB 301/Neurodegenerative disease), Wyttenbach(NBB project lab- it’s in the name), Williams (Hands on behavioral Neuroscience-in the name), Easterling (specifically for Drug Development, but sign up via the grad. division for the project that really gets you thinking). Antia (population biology-quantitative biology, problem/primary lit. based). Again, most of these courses use teaching methods that spark (or in the case, set a foundation for as the case method would) creative thinking in science or are straight up project or problem based or may focus on very open-ended problems with various approaches possible. I used to bash science at Emory, but I believe the reason I did so is because most students were not taking advantage of courses like these and instead settle for “straight-forward” (plug and chug or memorization based) type of science and math courses where no actual science is done or even really considered (as in your interpretation or ideas don’t count at all. courses are not evidence based, and are indeed presentation of a collection of facts without emphasis of a relevant context), however it appears Emory has more science instructors and courses that integrate creative thinking/inquiry based learning than similarly ranked private schools. </p>

<p>For a little inspiration, note that the two founders and starters of solazyme were UG’s at Emory and the biology major was indeed influenced by the special courses in the curriculum as suggested by this article: <a href=“Oil Change | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_MAGAZINE/issues/2012/spring/features/solazyme.html&lt;/a&gt; . A famous biotech start-up from alumni from a school with no engineering component? This shows the power of intellectual curiosity and inspiring coursework from a liberal arts education (and sciences are a part of the liberal arts and should be viewed as such when done correctly), it’s just a matter of hanging with the right crowd (I know people that started the hack-a-thon, and many of them originated from the robotics club. UG’s participate in business and other types of case competitions which do inspire creative thinking about and presentation of solutions to real world problems). You don’t need to be at an engineering school for innovation. And many undergraduate engineering majors are too busy struggling with dull, but difficult coursework taught in uninspiring ways to even think of being innovative. Being surrounded by motivated peers and finding courses that teach you how to think can be much more beneficial. Business (and many other outlets such as hackATL and stuff like that) can help you harness, pitch, and implement your ideas. Now is really not a bad time to come to Emory if you are into innovation. You just have to take advantage of the academic and EC opps and not just come and go through motions expecting to randomly become involved in some project. And honestly, again that’s often another weakness I see with many engineering programs and students. Many will just settle for going through the motions to pass their coursework (they just become jaded or burnt out to the point where they forget why they do it). By the way, your reasoning for wanting to do engineering sounds exactly like the reasoning many pre-healths provide (outside of the shameless cliche “I want to help people”) and it isn’t good and doesn’t explain why you can’t get those things through other pathways such as the one I outlined throughout this post. </p>

<p>This is anecdotal but I have a family member who is portfolio manager at a fund in NYC. He was engineering undergrad (and economics PhD). And so does my roommate (engineering and physics PhD I think).
I think you should follow that route if you can. Applied Math major and BBA is a power combination. BSchool network and math department ability will get your far. I don’t think 3-2 is necessary. Applied Math is good enough for engineering positions. And bba with 3-2 is ugh. </p>

<p>If you want business, pick up an economics PhD if you get into a strong program. Don’t bother with an mba if you can do PhD. </p>

<p>Business has a selfish connotation, but I think plenty of people are innovative and selfless. It’s also really broad. Engineering sounds really cool and helpful but keep in mind that most engineers are not building rockets or saving lives. If you’re looking specifically to impact people, neither choice is great. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, both jobs are in the private sector -focused on profits for their company </p>

<p>They both clearly impact lives, but you don’t necessarily get the credit (or get to see the people) depending on your position (you may impact lives in a way that those benefit take for granted). You would if you led or owned a company specifically designed to increase the quality of life of individuals I suppose. But let’s be honest, even “noble” professions have tons of selfish people doing it for rather selfish reasons. The reason they get credit when something goes well is because they directly interact with the people/stakeholders benefiting from their services. However, if the OP’s concern is worried about being challenged and becoming an innovator, there are so many pathways to do this and ways to develop the qualities of an “innovator” or creative thinker that there is no reason to believe that they must go on cliched tracks such as business or engineering. Again, that logic is what leads natural science oriented people to believe that the only way to use science to “help people” is to become a doctor. I don’t see how such logic from the get go transforms into a spirit of innovation, but anyway…</p>

<p>@bernie12‌ @aluminum_boat</p>

<p>I know that you can indeed major in business at Emory and then go to Gtech. Think does take more time but may ultimately satisfy both of my interests. Is that worth it? Considering both schools are top in their respective fields.</p>

<p>We’re telling you that it probably isn’t and that you should evaluate why you need both or alternative way of getting the same thing. Your view on engineering curricula is too rosy for example. And “engineering” is vague. There are many sectors of it. I don’t remember you expressing interests in any particular sector (which is perhaps a reason, you should stay away from it and just do science/applied science in some other capacity that is useful). Doing engineering for the sake of doing engineering (IE, the reasons you cited) is not a good idea. Do econ or the BBA and science/math courses on the side. Stay away from the 3-2 program in your case. Fulfilling the pre-reqs to go to Tech will take forever and I don’t think you know what you’re getting into. Find other ways of being challenged, innovative, and “helping people”. There are so many ways. That’s what I’m trying to say…I know you’re like many pre-meds who are just stuck on the beauty of their “perfect” plan or pathway, but this requires much more caution and there is much more flexibility in terms of pathways to achieve your goals in this case. </p>

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<p>So is “business”. You can be CEO of a company (perhaps even an “engineering” company) creating high paying jobs for your employees. You can work with insurance, providing money for people at their most desperate time of need. You can be an accountant, creatively reducing the tax bills for your clients. You can be an investment advisor, helping people secure a comfortable retirement (or grow funds for college). Business is not all about profits for faceless companies. There are countless ways that “business” can help others.</p>

<p>@bernie12 @Chardo I know exactly what I would get into: computer engineering. I have no interest in any other field. I find computer engineering/software absolutely fascinating. And I don’t mean that from a “better the world perspective.” I think I emphasized the fact that I want my work to be beneficial to society a little too much. Ultimately, benefiting society is simply a result of my passions. I am passionate about both business and computer engineering. Also, Emory does not allow double major with business (so Econ is out of the question). I simply want to challenge myself in things that I love to do, which happens to be both of these fields. </p>

<p>I always had this perspective (whether true of not) that if I didn’t go to a top engineering school, then I would end up as an IT guy. I feel as if unless you go to a top school, your vision of that career will not be tangible. </p>

<p>Excuse you…? Like 20% double major. There is a blog article describing participants in a case or business plan competition of which all were in GBS and one was double majoring in computer science. Also, your ideas about going to a top engineering school (or top any school) are false. Don’t cling to that idea (attending one can certainly enrich your experience, but if you’re good, it won’t really change the outcome, though it could accelerate a good depending on who you meet I guess). Anyway, I thought I was explaining to you how many people at Emory or wherever are actually innovating without the engineering degree/courses. They are just naturally tech inclined and are surrounded by the right people. In addition it helps to go to a school that is more liberal arts oriented because you can get a multi-disciplinary perspective that could indeed catalyze ideas (as in, you’ll more easily identify what are perhaps unique or untraditional applications of your talent in CS or CE). We have no engineering school and students here are doing more than just becoming an IT guy/girl (again, the HackAtl was basically GBS derived. HackEmory was derived by CS, ,math, and physics. majors at Emory and these 10 folks raised like 12k in sponsor money for the very first one and likely did better for the one that just passed. And the participation was pretty high) Here is the article: <a href=“https://blogs.emory.edu/bbanews/2014/05/12/duo-secures-1st-placesiperstein-case-competition/”>https://blogs.emory.edu/bbanews/2014/05/12/duo-secures-1st-placesiperstein-case-competition/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As you can see, not only is there double majoring in the b-school but there are specific business plan competitions designed by and for Emory students. Obviously you are allowed to propose whatever you want within the realm of feasibility. You don’t need to have CE courses to train yourself in that area or perhaps you could cross-enroll in Tech classes if you feel you need them so badly. But you need not go through the actual engineering curriculum to become an innovator in that area. This is evidenced by the fact that Emory hosts hack-a-thons and case competitions and many schools with engineering schools (including a couple of top schools with engineering schools) don’t. And some of the schools (particularly even less well known ones) with similar selectivity and an engineering school cannot get the level of interest or participation as we can. It appears gaining an entrepreneurial atmosphere and fostering innovation is largely controlled by the environment at each school and the level of support there is for such things. Many students here are becoming innovators in a field without ever stepping foot in advanced courses (or any) on the matter. They are simply inspired by something and then work hard to learn things on their own (okay, let’s be honest, some students are already really good when they come in. The girl who came up with the box idea is also working on several other start-ups and businesses) so that they can pitch and implement ideas. As far as coursework, you may end up benefiting more from the mathematical physics, physical biology, or some other courses with open ended projects than many CE courses (even at top engineering schools, most of such courses will be about “obedience” as opposed to creativity. As in algorithmic problem solving vs. open-ended). If you were talking aerospace, BME, something like that, by all means, be skeptical and worried. When done right, those curricula do have tons of potential to get you involved in R and D efforts/innovation. But when it comes to computers, there are so many pathways to enhancing that talent (mainly through experience/getting involved in a large project, not associated with a course, where the talent is needed. Perhaps an internship, which many Emory CS and math majors get…)
@Chardo: I agree…should have bought that up. Thanks for bringing attention to that.</p>

<p>Each of Chardo’s examples can be seen in the opposite light as well. CEOs who take in huge bonuses while their company has a down year. Insurance companies that refuse to give claims/find loopholes. Consultants who flat out lie to clients. Etc. It really depends on you as a person and those on your team- how much you impact and help others. </p>

<p>If you’re doing Computer Engineering I don’t think Econ will be nearly technical enough for you. Literally, you’ll wake up each morning wondering why you go to class. Go with CS or maybe applied math. Probably CS. </p>

<p>@bernie12 @aluminum_boat I appreciate the information. And I understand all if that. My point is simply: I enjoy both computer science/ engineering and finance. Emory business does not allow double major. </p>

<p>@Caliboy1234 Emory business does allow you to double major. You can do finance and computer science. You are not, however, allowed to formally complete a minor in the college.</p>

<p>It’s probably not feasible to try to do engineering and business with the Emory/Georgia Tech program, much less any more than that, if you want to finish here in less than 5 additional years from when you enter as a transfer student. Core classes are only offered at certain times and you have to fulfill a lot of prerequisites requirements as well as residency requirements.</p>

<p>3-2 with something else other than GBS is maybe doable I guess. However, I have the attitude of aluminum toward the idea of the BBA to be honest. The engineering degree is much more interesting than that. Econ/math and CE may make more sense and then you can take 4 B-school courses before going to Tech (because you’re supposed to take 5 courses a semester anyway, so fitting in those should be doable). And again, you can double major in a GBS primary and 2ndary depth while majoring in CS on main. I thought I just said that…a person in that article was doing it. Where you got this thing about the double major and being denied the ability to so, I don’t know. Since I am evidence based, and you need more evidence of this allowed double major, please go to this link and click on college majors, which will again say, 20% of them major in the college (I mean come on, the environmental studies dept shares a joint concentration program with them, so it shouldn’t be a shock. There are 2 other such programs): <a href=“BBA Academic Curriculum | Emory University Goizueta Business School”>http://goizueta.emory.edu/degree/undergraduate/curriculum/index.html&lt;/a&gt; . By the way, this 20% is higher than what it used to be (used to be about 15%).</p>