<p>My son talks about possibly majoring in Physics in college. He loves math. A relative speaks to him about majoring in engineering. My son is a very serious student, gets straight A's and works very hard. He says he wants to go to an academically rigorous college. He wants to get a Ph.D.</p>
<p>If one becomes an engineer, must this be accomplished in undergraduate school? What occupation would a person enter with a degree in physics? I want my son to have the career he chooses, but with his eyes open. Would a double undergraduate major in engineering and physics be redundant or overwhelming? Would a degree in either require him to live in certain areas of the country to follow his profession?</p>
<p>Thank you for any insight you can provide to me on these matters.</p>
<p>if your son wants to be an engineer then he would probably have to do engineering as an undergraduate major. However, physicists work with engineers freqently. I would not recommend your son doubling in physics and engineering as the bulk of engineering classes are physics classes.</p>
<p>The market for physicists is somewhat limited. Does your son like experimental or theoretical physics? An experimental physicist will be closer to an engineer than someone interested in theoretical physics/pure math. Also, there are many different kinds of engineers: chemical, mechanical, civil, and so on. If your son does want to become an engineer, he will have to take some physics classes. How many will depend on the type of engineering he wants to study.<br>
I would think that techie schools would have pretty good physics departments so you might investigate those.</p>
<p>In many colleges, engineering students are enrolled in the School of Engineering, while physics/math majors are in the School of Arts (or Letters) and Sciences. Each school (or college) has different core requirements. Also different admission stats/rates. Generally, a student desiring to change his major will find it easier to transfer out of engineering into physics/math, than the other way around, because engineering is a specialized program with a very specific curriculum beginning freshman year (as required by ABET, the credentialing group for university engineering programs). Engineers who decide to work after their bachelor's degree usually have rosier job prospects (some majors more than others). Perhaps your son should considering majoring in Engineering Physics - which combines both fields.</p>
<p>Skyhook, I have asked the very same question and found it difficult to get an answer. And I am married to an Engineer! A few suggestions: (1) there is a sub-forum here on cc for Engineering Majors. There are some informed posters there (Engineering faculty, Engineering grads); you might post this question there; (2) there is, of course, huge overlap between schools which are strong in physics and those which are strong in Engineering (even if they don't have an Engineering Physics major). As you begin to consider specific schools, I would investigate the ease with which a student can move between the programs; ie, if he enters the College of Engineering, can he switch after a semester or year or two to the College of Arts and Sciences for a Physics major? Usually it is difficult to do the reverse, but for a kid who takes a lot of science in freshman year, perhaps not; (3) as you look at Physics majors at various schools, you can begin to see how much emphasis each puts on Theoretical vs. Applied Physics and he may already know or develop a sense of which he prefers.</p>
<p>It seems to be uncommon to pursue a Masters in Engineering without having an undergrad degree in Engineering. Not saying it can't be done, but many of the graduate programs presume the undergrad E degree. My impression is that a student going for the grad degree would have a lot of backtracking to do. My H has an undergrad EE degree and an MSEE degree from Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. So you can see how intertwined the two fields can be.</p>
<p>I know three friends who were grad students in mechanical engineering the same time I was at MIT who received a BS in physics. One from MIT, one from Harvard, and the third from a small Christian liberal arts school. All three finished a PhD in mechanical engineering as fast as the ME undergrads. If your son does extremely well in physics, then his major will not limit his grad school possibilities.</p>
<p>However, perhaps he MIGHT like engineering more (or maybe not). I would suggest at least sitting in on some engineering seminars or something to get some idea. If he takes the standard physics, calculus, chemistry sequence as a freshman (and achieves excellent grades) then he could always change to majoring in engineering after his freshman year.</p>
<p>Engineers come out of undergrad with a skill set that directly translates into being able to do productive work that can't be done by anyone else. To get a good paying job right out of college, go into engineering.</p>
<p>Physics, or engineering physics!!!, is a fine preparation for grad school in many engineering fields.</p>
<p>Engineering is a fine preparation for grad school in that engineering.</p>
<p>It would be hard or impossible to double major in an engineering and in physics at most schools - engineering physics is different is one major.</p>
<p>I think probably the closest pair in the intertwined realms of engineering and physics is EE and electronics where the distinction seems to blur. There are a lot of physics grads who work in the electronics hardware departments of major companies such as TI, National Semiconductors and the like alongside with engineers.</p>
<p>Of course engineers are steeped in physical principles with a focus on practical applications for the betterment of the humanity. A perhaps simplistic but useful distinction in outlook between the the practitioners of the two disciplines of engineering and science (of which physics is a sub-set) is scientists discover what is and engineers create what might be. Both have their intrinsic and derived motivational aspects.</p>
<p>The other aspect to note is thast the practice of engineering is regulated through State boards of professional engineers while physicists are not.</p>
<p>My son will is planning tomajor in computer science and take "pre-engineering" courses at a liberal arts college. "Pre-engineering" consists of 5 physics courses, 2 chem, and 3 math courses. If he takes 3 more physics courses, he can also have a major in physics. As long as he has a strong undergraduate background in the sciences and math, he should have no problem pursuing an engineering degree at the graduate level.</p>
<p>Perhaps you are unaware of it, but there is an Engineering Physics major at a number of universities. I know Cornell, RPI and Ohio State offer this major and I am sure there are many others.</p>
<p>There are more entry level positions for someone with an undergrad degree in engineering than in physics, which may be way your relative is pushing engineering. Of course, if your son if interested in getting a PhD, majoring in physics or engineering shouldn't matter too much. </p>
<p>Many people who majored in physics undergrad end up doing PhDs in engineering and vice versa. The most common switch probably is between physics and electrical engineering. Rather than double majoring I would suggest just making sure he doesn't exclude either options. If he's a physics major (and potentially considering electrical engineering for grad school), I would say he should take a courses in circuits, signals and systems, and devices as well as some computer programming experience. If he's an electrical engineering major considering graduate school in physics, he should take electrodynamics, statistical physics, and have a least one full year (perferably a graduate course too) in quantum mechanics. This can typically be done as electives on top of a EE or Physics degree, so these courses put together basically make up an Applied Physics (AP) degree, as other people have mentioned. Stanford, Cornell, Harvard, and Yale offer AP. Princeton calls it Engineering Physics, I believe.</p>
<p>Another field to look at, if your son really loves math, is applied mathematics. Applied math majors use math to solve problems, so the major is less concerned with mathematical theory and more concerned with using math as a tool.</p>
<p>My s. started college as an Applied Physics major (BS in Applied as opposed to BA in Theoretical Physics). He decided to go to a school that offred an undergrad engineering degree, and wanted to keep his options open. He ended up taking a lot of Mech Eng. and a lot of physics courses, but is now a Mech E. major. He could have double majored in physics, but only if he went for the BA in Physics. If he wanted the BS, it would have required additional coursework that would have taken an extra semester or possibly an extra year.</p>
<p>As an aside, many students go to grad school in Engineering without an undergrad degree in it. Williams is quite successful in getting its students into grad Engineering programs. And many physics majors go into banking. The banking industry likes how physicists think, and certainly the math knowledge is a big plus.</p>
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If one becomes an engineer, must this be accomplished in undergraduate school?
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No, it's certainly possible to move from physics to electrical engineering or mechanical engineering, for example. Though, really, if your son is interested in these things, he might as well start in undergrad, and if he's not, then he definitely shouldn't get a PhD in either subject. </p>
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What occupation would a person enter with a degree in physics?
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Generally research oriented occupations either in academia, industry, or national labs. A PhD is usually required. There are certainly exceptions to this, including the mentioned investment banking, but I feel there are better majors for that if you know you're interested in that.</p>
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Would a double undergraduate major in engineering and physics be redundant or overwhelming?
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I have a bias here in that I'm in a physics program that requires more physics classes than any other program in the nation, but if a person is really interested in physics, there's plenty of curricula to be covered in an undergraduate. There's a reason that a PhD degree is required for most research work: there's simply too much you need to know to learn in four years.</p>
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Would a degree in either require him to live in certain areas of the country to follow his profession?
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Probably not, though obviously there are less total possible locations than an engineering degree will allow.</p>
<p>cghen--
I am assuming you are a student when you say you're "in a physics program." May I ask whether you are interested in theoretical or applied physics, and do you have an idea of what area you want to focus on when you get out? Thanks.</p>
<p>Yes, I am a current sophomore physics major. </p>
<p>Theoretical and applied physics aren't opposite entities actually (you can certainly be a theoretical applied physicist). A more useful distinction is experimental versus theoretical, whether people get results from observed data or mathematical models repsectively. </p>
<p>Applied physics is distinct from physics in terms of its subject matter: physics tends to focus on high energy, gravitational, nuclear, or condensed matter physics, while applied physics deals more with optical, plasma, solid-state, materials, and bio physics.</p>
<p>I personally am interested in experimental condensed matter physics, which arguably can be in both physics or applied physics since its such a broad subfield. It's essentially an extension of solid-state (and liquid) physics to extreme conditions (low temperatures, high densities, high interaction energies) and studies things such as superconductivity and Bose-Einstein condensates. I like condensed matter physics because the topics interest me, and the experiments are still small enough (i.e. not high energy physics) so that it doesn't take too long accomplish real work. It's also only a step away from much more applicable and lucrative work should I ever feel the need to go in that direction.</p>
<p>I plan on going to graduate school after I complete my B.S., but that feels like a long time from now (judging by the amount I still have to learn)!</p>