To bet on a high starting salary with large loans is not a good idea. Engineering has a high drop out and change of major rate. That $60-80k salary you are banking in could turn into half that or tough job prospects altogether. Having large loans racking up interest while kid is working 3 min wage jobs trying to scrape up enough for a place of ones own and a reliable loan really is not a great prospect.
Students need more self-awareness. Employment statistics from a college in a given major are for average students in that major from that college. Unless a student fits the criteria, his/her outcome could be very different. A college is highly unlikely to turn a below-average student into a star, but relatively speaking, I agree it’s probably more helpful to lower income students.
But it also won’t turn a top-end student into a mediocre one, even though that is the implied assumption when people post their their top-end students “need” to go to super-selective universities because the less selective ones have lower graduation rates or some such.
^I agree a student’s outcome is primarily determined by the student him/herself, but the environment does play some role. A student should be challenged but not outclassed intellectually. If the student’s academic ability is too far in the tails (either left or right) of the distribution of the student body, it’s suboptimal for that student.
There are some stellar students, diligent students, tenacious students who will do well anywhere. There are some that are going fail anywhere because they just don’t have the frame of mind to do what is needed to get through an engineering program.
Those two categories are set. But there are those students for whom the environment can make a difference. They may not be sufficiently prepared to jump into a program where nearly everyone has already taken BC Calc and done summer courses geared towards engineering majors. A large school environment might be hostile to them, the wrong small school environment might throw them for a loop
These are the years when mental health demons, emotional triggers really can reek havoc on young people, and going away to college, rigorous academic Half he’s can take their toll
You can’t measure all of these factors, but I can see when schools are turning kids with 500-650 math SATs, 3.0 students from high school, into engineers
Thank you cptofthehouse My son is the 3.0, 26 ACT kid of which you speak, and I totally believe he has it in him to become an engineer. He’s no French scholar, and didn’t do well in his Catholic school’s religious courses. Heck, he didn’t always get As in math and science. But he lives and breathes like an engineer. He’s passionate about solving problems, looks at things in a unique way, can just look at something and figure it out. And no matter how many times I ask him what else he might want to do he will say, I want to be an engineer. So I choose to believe in him and his future, and I choose not to believe the folks on CC that are telling me he has no business majoring in engineering. I have no idea what the future holds, but right now, that’s what I choose to believe.
@taverngirl You are spot on. Any older adult is not being honest if they are saying that educational pedigree is what separates successful people from not. That is truly nonsense. Your son has what is most important - interest and drive. No college class is completely over the head of any kid who truly wants to learn. If your son wants to be an engineer, he will be. Try and stop him! I hire people all the time. I’d take a kid like your son over an Ivy graduate who lacks curiosity any day of the week. In fact, I have! Nothing we do is so intellectually challenging that a reasonably bright person can’t master it. The ones who want to, do. Those who don’t, don’t. It’s that simple.
Completely useless article and shoddy journalism from CNBC.
For some overlap from the same site, look at this link:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/the-top-10-public-us-colleges-that-pay-off-the-most.html
Based on the link above, the salary figures quoted in the OP link are not for engineering majors, but for ALL majors from that university. Coastal salaries are higher than the center of the country. Engineering salaries are higher than most other majors. Some engineering salaries are a lot higher than others too. Tech oriented schools always have higher salaries than general universities at the same level.
Some public universities (e.g. Michigan) give generous FA to OOS students. Some (GT,CA schools) give none. Some (GT) have almost completely free tuition to Georgia residents who (a) had qualifications to be admitted and (b) maintained a high GPA through college regardless of income.
Clickbait.
@taverngirl keep supporting your son as he goes for it! I too believe he can get there. He just might need a bit more on campus support and more hard work on his part, but his desire will take him far.
“Purdue gets a bad rap from some about their competitive transition to major program but, 92% of students starting in engineering graduate from engineering (and that number is climbing).”
I think that 92% number is the first year retention rate. The Engineering FYE is 89%, which is good for sure but the 4-year engineering grad rate is 46% and including 9% that transfer in from other majors gives a total retention of 55%. The 6-year grad rate is probably more relevant as you point since lot of kids do co-ops and work study, and that is 68% for students that started and 16% transfer giving 84%. I would consider the 46% and 68% numbers a little concerning, at least enough to figure out what’s going on.
see
https://www.purdue.edu/enrollmentmanagement/data-reports/grad-retention-rates.php
@taverngirl. I have not read this thread but just the last few posts. There are many schools for him. Find one that connects with him. Iowa State comes to mind. It’s a great school and produces top quality engineers.
Also there are many sociology studies that with the right support (tutors at school, professor hours, learning /writing labs), that kids rise to the occasion. In engineering, he will have to. It’s not about getting a “A” 's its about understanding. Not everyone is a great test taker but they tend to know the concepts and how to apply them.
At lots of engineering schools the students grade point can drop a half to full grade from high school during their first semester or year. This is normal. So as long as he knows this he should probably get help like the above like Day 1. Honestly, all the kids should!!!
Engineering to complete in college is a mind set. Not how smart you are. Look on Reddit. Current students are retaking failed classes. One kid failed Calc 2nd 3 and like one physics class. That would have many kids just drop out. He was determined and persistent to make it. He is now a highly paid engineer!!! ?.
In some fields you barely use the math you learn. My son is going to be a 3rd year at Michigan for Industrial. He did a international internship this summer. He used Excel and some practice management software for everything he did. No Calc was used at all. No physics…
Lol.
^If you can use just 20% of what you learned in college, consider yourself lucky. Most college grads don’t use much of what they learned in college, and many of them should have gone to trade schools instead.
The above statement is probably more generalized to college (hence the strikethrough above), rather than just for engineering majors. Students going to college right out of high school were probably mostly 3.0-4.0 students in high school. But those who eventually graduate get redistributed across the 2.0-4.0 GPA range in college. So lots of students who go to college will have lower college GPA than high school GPA.
@ucbalumnus. This was actually directly from the head of the engineering department from Michigan at the open house a few years back. I liked that he put it out there. He actually showed the new deans report card with a few C’s and D and a class he had to retake… They kept saying a “B” at Michigan was like an “A” anywhere else and a “C” was like an “B” as everyone cringed… Lol ?.
The talk was actually inspiring and I am not doing it justice but the point was… Engineering is hard so get over your 3.9 GPA 34 ACT. No one cares now that your here… Lol.
Yes, I am perfectly aware this can apply to any “School” but this thread is about engineering.
You may unstrike the word now?.
…but yet, believe it or not UM will graduate a few students with 4.0 GPA’s in engineering.
Absolutely. I am sure it’s a few more then a few also.
And some kids are late bloomers . Don’t count them out! My younger kid did much better in college than in high school. 3.9+ after first year calculus, physics , etc. at Virginia Tech. High school GPA was so mediocre that he was initially waitlisted. When getting off the waitlist, he was first placed in “university studies” but quickly was placed in engineering after doing very well his first semester .