I was curious what you engineers think about this.
DD and I liked the University of Rochester as a potential spot for her to study engineering, but I noticed that 44% of the recent graduating class went directly to graduate school.
Would that give you pause for concern?
As always thanks.
Why would that be a concern? Honestly, I would consider that a pretty good balance for most engineering schools! After the obvious point that some students prefer industry or else prefer grad school, the percentage of students that go directly to grad school is affected by a number of factors:
Some schools attract a lot of students with high ambition, many of whom see graduate school as an important step towards pursuing those ambitions. Some schools have a strong reputation in academia, and make it much easier for their students to go to grad school. Both of these are issues that speak well of the school.
On the other hand, some schools (especially smaller ones) are unable to offer the kind of specializations that employers want, leading many to go to grad school just to be competitive in industry. Others may simply do a worse job of helping their students get jobs than they do getting them into grad school - many students will apply to both, and a mediocre grad school may look better than a mediocre job to some students.
What are your daughter’s ambitions? Does she want grad school, or are her sights set on industry (bearing in mind that her opinion is apt to change)? Why does the grad school rate concern you?
I guess I assumed that a smaller portion of engineering graduates go to grad school
Right now she is leaning towards industry. We like Rochester because of the general high level of academics and it seemed like an alternative to a large research university or a tech school. We were thinking of looking into Case Western also.
Both schools have solid reputations in engineering, I would suggest looking at the actual departments and seeing what kind of specializations they offer and who recruits at the school. That should give you an idea of what her options will be going straight into industry. The percentage of students going to grad school won’t really impact her.
Oh, and in (very) general, the more students going to grad school, the stronger the department/school. In general.
My impression is that Univ of Rochester is a good school. My son did a summer program there in 2012 and had positive feelings. Our only issue was the distance (12 hours driving) and not good flight connections to our home town so he chose a different school. I am not an engineer but have concluded that if The program is accredited and has A good reputation, your child will be able to get a decent education. I did a lot of research (talked with recruiters, asked questions at universities, and read) and learned the most important things to achieve (especially for an engineer) is a high GPA, the ability to think, and the ability to communicate. That’s what I understand most employers will be looking for. If you think your D can get all those things at UR and she would be happy there, go for it!
I don’t know about the % of students who go to grad school but it seems what cosmicfish said is reasonable.
Rochester and Case Western are excellent research universities.
At Rochester, in 2014, 68 out of 237 BS awarded in engineering were in Biomedical Engineering (about 29%). Biomedical is a field that typically requires a master’s degree. Most Bio’s go to grad school, med school, law school, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what drives the numbers up (along with other factors).
My guess is that they can’t find employment easily so graduate school is the next best step.
I mean, lack of employment opportunities is certainly the reason I went straight to graduate school. Oh wait, no it wasn’t.
Maybe it wasn’t in your case but for a lot of people in my van pool, they graduate in the 80s like 87 perhaps , found no job, went to PhD and found employment after PhD. MayBe the timing wasn’t right like after 2009. How do I know, they specifically told me that. Perhaps they are not on CC like you.
I got my BS in 2009, at the absolute worst point of what was the worst recession since the Great Depression. I went to graduate school despite having several job offers.
My point is that there are many reasons to choose graduate school, and there are many people (including most with whom I went to graduate school) who chose that path despite having jobs open to them in industry with just their BS.
Some people go because they want to go. Some people go because they have to go. Some schools will sway more to one side or the other in terms of their reasons for sending many students to graduate school. It is simply irresponsible to paint them all with the same brush. That is essentially the picture @cosmicfish was painting earlier, though in greater detail than what I have just done.
The percentage of people goes to graduate school usually less than 10%, when it’s more than that perhaps the major is not employable easily. Biomedical engineering is probably one of them.
When hiring is down, more students apply to grad school. But the grad school admissions becomes more competitive too.
Well that is what I tell my kid. Go to grad school when you’re laid off. It makes your resume looks good. It’s not good to be out of work and do nothing.
A few more comments:
The necessity of grad school depends a lot on the individual field and on the individual specialty, but neither of those are a particularly function of a given school - if biomedical engineers need grad degrees to be employable then that is simply the reality whether you go to MIT or to South Central Louisiana State (GO MUDDOGS!!!).
Grad programs generally have requirements that exclude a good 30-40% of college graduates - you can graduate with a 2.5 GPA, but you will have to move mountains to get into grad school with that GPA. Grad programs in most fields are pretty competitive even at lower-tier programs, and someone who can get into grad school generally has a better-than-average shot at employment.
I went to grad school straight after getting my bachelor’s degree. There was SO much to learn in structural engineering that I didn’t feel prepared to start working with just a BS. My decision had nothing to do with the employment market at the time. As it turned out, the economy in Texas tanked just as I finished my MS, so that’s how I ended up in Maine.
…and the career goals of the student.
I’m thinking the specific field of engineering does make a lot of difference. Aerospace engineering is another major that people I know go straight to PhD.
Aerospace engineering has ample opportunity for those with only a BS. It is not like biomedical engineering where a graduate degree is largely necessary. If you know a lot of aerospace engineers going on to graduate school, it’s because they are interested in the opportunities graduate school provides.
This guy I know also did phD from Aerospace Engineering. I’m think with a BS the work is not as interesting and deep. Big space company usually take on more expensive work in the billions so PhD makes sense. My daughters friend got a BS in Aerospace engineering and she was not admitted to MS at her alma mater because of sub 3.0 GPA. I think last I’ve heard the work is sort of dead-end kind of job. Originally it was supposed to close in 2 years but she still there.