Stressed out kids has zero to do with course difficulty between these two schools. Michigan’s courses are just as rigorous. Quarters vs Semesters, I would buy.
Michigan lsa has a 3.88 unweighted GPA with 32/33 act. Michigan Engineering has a 3.93 with a 34 ACT avg. Think their doing OK.
Just as a few encounters on a campus visit can (perhaps disproportionately) influence one’s impressions, the attitudes of certain individuals who take it upon themselves to represent a school on CC can give one pause as well. I know that when my daughters were making decisions, I noticed distinct differences in “vibe” on different schools’ threads, and it did make us think about what kind of people they wanted to spend four pivotal years of their lives with. Personally, I would happily trade a one-point difference in median ACT for peers with some measure of humility and a healthy sense of perspective.
Of course, wrt these schools in particular, I’m sure there are humble and grounded people to be found at both, as well as people who feel unreasonably superior because of where they go to school. I can’t begin to guess at how the proportions might vary between the two institutions. But I would venture that current students who seek to bludgeon other institutions with stat-comparisons and “no brainer” assertions of preeminence might not be marketing their cherished institutions as effectively as they imagine.
Both schools are extremely strong and have large numbers of very smart and hardworking students. Bashing one school, not based on experience but just on looking at somewhat arbitrary rankings and barely different entering stats, is unnecessary and not constructive.
The prospective students’ issues are what school will be a better fit, and are both schools affordable choices. Where they are ranked by USA Today should not be an issue at all.
None of the Northwestern students or parents that I’ve met have been fixated on prestige like this poster. I went to law school with people like that, who felt they were superior to the rest of the world and cared only about prestige (and power), and I hated it. It does not represent the atmosphere at Northwestern.
“For example, ESPN is projecting that the UMich football team will be playing in the College Football Playoff next season (2019-2020). NU is NOT projected to be in the Top 20:”
At the risk of going slightly off thread, those articles are all click-bait to get college football and UM fans to click on the article. I follow college football very closely and know a lot of Michigan fans, they say beating OSU would be a good first step and then winning the division, something they haven’t done in a long time.
“Of course, wrt these schools in particular, I’m sure there are humble and grounded people to be found at both, as well as people who feel unreasonably superior because of where they go to school.”
It’s all perspective, talk to any OSU or MSU student, and they can go for days on UM arrogance (ok slight exaggeration), but you get the idea.
Only 8 days to go before the decision day! We went to NU WildCat Day after my last post and I spent nights pouring over the course catalogs of NU and UMich engineering. I also made some corrections-
- The “theme” requirement in NU McCormick means that D will have some useless AP credits because no more than three (out of 7) humanities/language/social sciences theme courses could be at 100 level. She would have to take the remaining 4 at NU. In contrast, she only needs to take one more 300 level humanity at UMich. In addition, UMich does take her AP chemistry (as does NU). It’s roughly equal between UMich and NU in terms of how much time she’d be able to trim from 4 years.
- CoE at UMich has more required departmental courses than NU. For Mechanical engineering, Umich requires breadth in 5 major areas while NU only lists three areas.
- NU’s curriculum and presentation emphasizes on the humanistic aspect of engineering training. Again this is illustrated in their “theme” requirement and the “soft” freshman design/communication engineering core (IMHO - that’s kinda like kids’ play). In contrast, UMich CoE launches freshman right into computer programming.
- NU engineering facility is dwarfed by UMich.
- I asked a ME sophomore who hosted us during the tour how many of her freshman peer did not return to McCormick. She said in her advising group, 3 out of 10 transferred out to Weinberg.
I jokingly told D that if her dream is to build the most amazing rocket to reach a black hole, she probably should go to UMich. However, if she aspires to be the CEO of a teach company, she should probably go to NU.
Kudos for doing a deep dive. I think your assessments are correct.
How did you like the campus and the City of Evanston?
Since there is still some indecision I will tell you I have to challenge your assessment. At Michigan you can truly do both, reach the black hole and be the CEO of the company that sent it there. They set you up to do whatever you want to do and will support you in the process. I might PM some information to you to prove this point.
A couple of things regarding your post:
- The “theme” requirement in NU McCormick means that D will have some useless AP credits because no more than three (out of 7) humanities/language/social sciences theme courses could be at 100 level. She would have to take the remaining 4 at NU.
Are you sure? When I look at Mccormick AP exam credit chart, several AP classes translate as 200 level courses: Micro and Macro econ, US Gov, US and World History.
- In contrast, UMich CoE launches freshman right into computer programming.
NU’s engineers do Matlab programming in their first quarter through their engineering analysis class.
- NU engineering facility is dwarfed by UMich.
The student to faculty ratio is probably still better at NU. NU has 400-450 engineering majors per year, UMich has 1600.
The UMich CoE Class of 2022 is 1,363 students.
^^^^Thanks for printing accurate information!
Both schools do Matlab but there are also choices. My son did C++/Python instead as a freshman.
Also not sure why people think if Michigan is a larger school they will get no FaceTime with their professors or there are less instructors per student etc. I did a real test and asked my son. He said anytime he needs to speak to his professor and not a graduate student he pretty much… Wait for it… Walks into his office… He said it’s really as easy as that ?. Of course it becomes busier around right before tests. Also there’s this crazy thing called email. Professors so respond to it. He also said most of the graduate students are actually really good. There is also software to ask questions during class or you can do something that is very old fashioned, raise your hand. The software is just cooler.
Both schools have excellent resources with helping kids learn and have learning centers, peer to peer groups and math, science help labs and the like.
Just a recent (last Friday) example. My kid’s math professor not only answered a question quickly on a Friday night, but not 20 minutes after completing an assignment online in the math lab last Friday evening (kinda last minute, final is this Friday), kid receives a funny sarcastic congratulatory email from the professor. From the screenshots of the professor’s emails, he seems totally cool. 20 minutes after? First name basis? Big public school?
Although, outside the math lab, some student of his wrote on the whiteboard “(professor’s name) makes me sad.” 
There’s no doubt that UMich is a much bigger (and public) school and probably requires a bit more effort on the student’s part than NU. I guess my point is that, yes, UMich is big and, yes, it’s public, but the vibe isn’t “Big Public, you’re just a number to us.”
@osuprof
You’re correct - micro and macro Econ do count as 200 courses at NU! I’d hate to have D’s hard earned credits go to waste. In retrospect she could (and should) take it easy for the senior year because she has maxed out transferable AP credits.
Regarding NU freshman programming with MatLab … my understanding is that MatLab is a tool not a programming language as opposed to C++, which is what UMich freshmen have to take in the first semester (@knowsstuff).
I really appreciate all the comments here, including the sports talk and a little bit of rivalry ?. Personally, I prefer semester system and the opportunities that come with big schools. I feel Ann Arbor is a better place for young adults to learn to be independent. Umich CoE is definitely a top notch school. I also feel that UMich is much more nurturing and supportive than NU. On the other hand, D has always leaned towards NU. Partly because she has already had lots of friends in NU while she does not know anyone in UMich nor anyone going to UMich from her HS. Growing up in Chicago, she is probably more comfortable in a semi-urban environment of Evanston than Ann Arbor. I also suspect that young people are more likely to equate prestige with private universities. Among her best friends, two are going to Princeton. That may have tipped the scale towards NU for her. After scholarship, NU tuition + RB is $2k more than UMich tuition + RB, which is $2k more than UIUC in-state. Since NU scholarship has no string attached, the $2k difference is insignificant.
Very hard choice between the two schools! Pros/cons to both and both are very fine schools. My son has finally decided on Michigan over NU but it was very very hard. He is in LSA at Michigan and would have been in Medill which obviously is top for journalism. BUT he is not sure that he wants journalism and really wants to explore all avenues in sports field – Michigan has courses in business, school of kineseology that he can take in addition to communications, languages that interest him etc. He also loves the sports/social scene in Ann Arbor over NU and had talked to several kids currently at NU who talked about the stress/quarter system. I think that he felt he fits better with the vibe at Michigan but it is hared to turn down the prestige of Medill and is just going with his gut. Michigan will also cost us less by about $12K/year (though still oos so paying a lot). So hard to make these choices!!
You’ve done a great job analyzing this. It’s good that while you realize you’d choose Mich she’s not you. Sounds like she feels a pull to Northwestern. The thing I come back to is her scholarship. I’ve read 30% of engineering students overall change their major and it seems like there’s already at least a seed in her mind that she might want to go different direction. . .
Northwestern offers a lot — and if she does want to build that rocket she can go to Mich for grad school!
phoebehana4, this is a difficult decision. Many students currently enrolled at Michigan and Northwestern have faced the same dilemma. In fact, it is quite possibly the most common “serious” decision faced by students attending either one of those two universities.
We are talking about two of the top universities in the nation. When it comes academics, flexibility, resources, opportunities, placement and prestige, they are comparable. Students can major in Engineering while pursing a liberal arts approach at both. Students can branch out and seek our an entrepreneurship program, or a business certificate or minor at both universities as well. Students will be smart and intellectually inclined at both schools. Opportunities for research, and placement into graduate school and the corporate world will be equally plentiful at Michigan and Northwestern.
Where they differ is in the unique and specific programs that they offer, their academic calendars and their respective campus vibe/culture/life. One cannot go wrong choosing either one of those two. In other words, your daughter should go with her gut.
And for the record, there are six Michigan undergraduate alumni that are currently CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, compared to two Northwestern undergraduate alumni, and both universities are absolutely stellar in the STEM fields. So your daughter can build rockets, and become CEO by attending either one of those two institutions! 
Well seeing UM has 3.5 times the number of graduates, I’d say NW comes out a head on that one.