Engineering School on competence, not prestige?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I am currently in the summer before my high school senior year and am weeding out potential engineering schools. </p>

<p>At a glance, my credentials are as follows:</p>

<p>33 ACT (34 Science, 36 Math, 29 Reading (totally screwed that section up) 33 English/Grammar)</p>

<p>Pending scores on SAT, but should be around 2000-2200, with perfect on math</p>

<p>President of Rotary Interact club, attended a RYLA conference, sat in on several Rotary meetings, probably will be attending the district conference next year</p>

<p>Active member at local church (non-denominational)</p>

<p>In the process of starting a sort of organization/network of all the Interact clubs in Indiana in a manner similar to the district/regional setup of Rotary International in an attempt to conduct sort of collaborative Interact efforts once or twice a year</p>

<p>12.5 GPA weighted, 4.5 GPA weighted</p>

<p>3 years honors english, AP History, AP Chem, taking AP Physics, will have taken all math through Calc II (albeit with a college, not through HS) Honors Biology, etc. (basically, typical honors student)</p>

<p>Phenomenal in reasoning, mathematics, intuition, logic, etc., but still highly capable in humanities and english type stuff as well</p>

<p>Active, year-round swimmer, State finalist, significant volunteer within club as well</p>

<p>Father is a United States Marine, currently works for Chrysler (sort of has college,as in, the education (more than enough, in addition to being brilliant) but not the degree)</p>

<p>Mom is stay at home, but working on a nursing degree</p>

<p>I live in Central Indiana (kokomo, to be exact)</p>

<p>I have had some pretty terrible things happen in my life which could probably be used to help in the admission process/ scholarship search as well</p>

<p>I am a white male</p>

<p>So....
I am looking into an engineering school to go to.
I do not care, in all honesty, about "prestige" or "recognition" or whatnot... at the end of the day, I care only about which school offers the best education, professor relations, research opportunities, and a sort of independece in that your learning experience is unhindered by the status quo or politics or whatnot.... I am sort of just brainstorming here, but hopefully everyone understands what I am sort of aiming for?</p>

<p>I guess, based strictly on education (not necessarily restricted to book-taught theory or whatnot) what would be the best schools to apply for? Think Martin Arrowsmith/Howard Roark/etc. - pleasing school</p>

<p>I am currently leaning towards Purdue, Rose Hulman, or Notre Dame... with a special emphasis on Rose Hulman (it seems to be the closest to what I am looking for, at the moment)</p>

<p>Any other suggestions? Thoughts? Comments? Advice? Random things that occurred to you while reading this?</p>

<p>Sorry for the rambling on, this sort of turned out longer than I had expected. Excuse the length. </p>

<p>I looked for similar info on here and the general internet, but everything seemed geared towards the "best" schools, but experience has taught that "best" doesn't necessarily equate with "highest quality" as grade inflation/ alumni network/ walk-off salary seem to pollute the ratings.</p>

<p>Also, I am fairly poor (as in, I can't afford $55,000/year without financial aid) if that makes any differnence, but I will apply to as many scholarships as possible to afford whatever is necessary</p>

<p>Again, sorry for the length, and thanks in advance for any help offered</p>

2

<p>Indiana resident? If so, Purdue has a $30,000 per year advantage over Notre Dame and Rose Hulman, unless those two are much more generous with non-loan financial aid.</p>

<p>Some expensive schools like Stanford are generous with need-based non-loan financial aid, so if you are looking for reach schools to apply to, you may want to consider such schools. But Purdue is good, and your stats look very good compared to its [2010</a> freshman admissions profile](<a href=“http://www.purdue.edu/oir/CDS_Post/cds10_c.htm]2010”>http://www.purdue.edu/oir/CDS_Post/cds10_c.htm), so it seems like a definite place to apply to.</p>

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<p>

What does that mean?</p>

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<p>Also, I am fairly poor (as in, I can’t afford $55,000/year without financial aid) if that makes any differnence, but I will apply to as many scholarships as possible to afford whatever is necessary</p>

<p>OK…pause right there. Private scholarships are not likely going to help you pay for 4years of college. </p>

<p>Private scholarships are often for SMALL amounts, and ONLY for freshman year…and very hard to get. You can’t depend on them to help you pay for 4 years of college. </p>

<p>You do NOT want to be in a situation where you have a few scholarships for frosh year, and then don’t have enough money for soph, jr and sr year. </p>

<p>You may find that not even Purdue will be affordable since they often only give about $4-8k in merit for instate. COA is about $22k for instate. If your family can’t pay it’s EFC (or more) , that could be a problem.</p>

<p>I don’t think Rose-Hulman will be affordable . Someone posted that they only give up to half tuition for merit…and they they don’t meet need. But, I could be wrong…anyone know for sure? Cost is over $50k, and their FA packages don’t seem to be enough for those with HIGH need.</p>

<p>*Father is a United States Marine, currently works for Chrysler *</p>

<p>Does that mean that your dad receives a military retirement and a salary from Chrysler?</p>

<p>Since money is an issue…YOU need a STRATEGY!!!</p>

<p>1) find out how much your family can pay?</p>

<p>2) find out what your likely EFC will be (it sounds like it could be more than $10k per year.)</p>

<p>3) depending on EFC and how much family will pay, choose some reaches and matches.</p>

<p>4) You need to apply to a few schools that you know FOR SURE that you will have all costs covered…with ASSURED scholarships, ASSURED grants, small fed loans, and family funds. THIS IS very important.</p>

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<p>You have strong credentials and an interesting background. Being from a lower income family and having your interesting background could make for interesting essays. You should look into schools like Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, MIT, Northwestern, Princeton, Rice and Stanford because they are generous with financial aid. You may want to also give Michigan a shot as they sometimes give generous aid and merit scholraships, but you must apply EA to have a real shot at those.</p>

<p>Your three in-state options are all excellent too, with Purdue likely to offer you a very generous and appealing package.</p>

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<p>Being from a lower income family</p>

<p>Do we know that? His “poor” statement was in reference to paying $55k. He may be middle-income, and if his dad is retired military who now how a civilian job, the family income may be decent. Or at least high enough to have an EFC that they can’t afford to pay. I mean…he might have an EFC of $10k or more…but if his parents can’t pay it (because of mom’s tuition costs, etc), that will be a problem. </p>

<p>He will already have a student loan in his FA package so he won’t be able to use one to help pay the EFC.</p>

<p>This student needs to have a couple of solid financial safety schools…it’s fine to apply to a few schools to see what happens, but be needs to protect himself with some financial safeties that he knows for sure his costs are covered.</p>

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<p>mom2collegekids, the OP is self-described as “fairly poor”. Of course, I realize the term is relative, but I took it at face value. Also, since neither of his parents has a college edgree and his mother does not work, I would say it is safe to assume the OP comes from a lower-middle income household. </p>

<p>Purdue will be a complete financial safety since he is a resident of Indiana. Even without any FA, Purdue will cost him less than $25k annually. But given his strong academic record, I would be surprised if he did not receive a generous scholarship.</p>

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<p>So… in meaning that I couldn’t afford to go to a 60K/year tuition, with no debt after 4 yrs., I didn’t mean that I was THAT poor… my dad makes around 80k/year, my mom will, by the time I start college, be a nurse. She went to Ivy Tech (community college) so loans were fairly insignificant as well… I can definitely afford some level of family contribution… just not (and this is just speculation) without some level of debt upon graduation.</p>

<p>Also, I can attend any state university (IU, Purdue, Ball State, etc,) with 120 credit-hours of tuition fully paid. (my dad being a marine)</p>

<p>Sorry for the confusion… and thanks for all the responses! I did not expect so many people to respond as quickly as did.</p>

<p>The focus of my post was more so centered around which engineering school would be best suited to my ability/personality… i.e., individualist, do-it-my-own-way, care more about learning than I do a grade or award-type attitude</p>

<p>The money section was just me wondering if any schools would be likely to give me a full ride (or somewhere around there). TIt’d be nice, but is not necessary</p>

<p>Thanks for all the help so far!</p>

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<p>Purdue would be a great fit and proximity is ideal. The other’s I would look at would be U Wiss. -Madison, Virginia Tech, Carnegie Mellon. I can’t figure out your GPA either. I am assuming you meant a 4.5 weighted so above schools were chosen with that in mind. What’s your unweighted and was that a typo?</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Purdue is good, and will be hard to pass up with free tuition. ([cost</a> of attendance](<a href=“http://www.purdue.edu/dfa/all/cost.php]cost”>http://www.purdue.edu/dfa/all/cost.php) without tuition would be about $13,000 per year)</p>

<p>Others competitive on costs would either be deep safeties with good merit aid like [University</a> of Alabama](<a href=“http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html]University”>http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html), or certain reach schools with good need-based aid, like [url=<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html]Stanford[/url”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html]Stanford[/url</a>].</p>

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<p>on a 12.0 scale, my GPA is 12.5 b/c certain classes are weighted +2/credit</p>

<p>When converted to a 4.0 scale, my GPA is 4.5</p>

<p>I don’t particularly like the conversion idea… because the two are scored entirely differently (A+ is 12, A is 11, A- is 10, and so on, as opposed to A is 4, B is 3, C is 2, D is 1)</p>

<p>But that is just how my school does it, so with it I am stuck.</p>

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<p>Oh, and my school won’t show me my unweighted GPA (at least as of yet… on vacation and report card only shows weighted) <em>sigh</em></p>

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<p>Need a very good reason not to go to Purdue. A PU degree in engineering with good grades gets you anywhere you want to go.</p>

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<p>Cooper Union may also be worth a look, from a financial standpoint (if you get in).</p>

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<p>*So… in meaning that I couldn’t afford to go to a 60K/year tuition, with no debt after 4 yrs., I didn’t mean that I was THAT poor… my dad makes around 80k/year, my mom will, by the time I start college, be a nurse. *</p>

<p>I didn’t think you were “poor” in the true financial sense. Your earlier post suggested that your dad is retired military now drawing both a salary in the private sector and income from retirement. </p>

<p>I understood that you meant that you were poor in the sense of not being able to afford a pricey private. </p>

<p>Do all children of retired vets go to Indiana publics for free? If so, very nice!!!</p>

<p>The money section was just me wondering if any schools would be likely to give me a full ride (or somewhere around there). TIt’d be nice, but is not necessary</p>

<p>NO school that is ranked above Purdue is going to give you a free ride. You’re not going to get close to a free ride to Rose-H. You might get a “half-tuition” scholarship, but with your family’s income, you’re going to have an EFC of about $12k…it could be higher if a portion of your dad’s income is from a retirement (because FAFSA figures that income differently). </p>

<p>Do you have reasons not to go to Purdue? If so, what would they be? </p>

<p>There are some schools ranked below Purdue that might give you free tuition or more than that.</p>

<p>BTW…what do you mean by “free ride”? There is a difference between “free tuition” and “free ride”. Free ride means free tuition , room, board, books, etc.</p>

<p>So, with an EFC of about $12k (rough estimate), unless you get a very large scholarship that covers all need and cuts into EFC, you’re going to be expected to pay at least that much.</p>

<p>How much will your parents contribute? </p>

<p>Are you a likely NMSF? What was your PSAT?</p>

<p>TIt’d be nice</p>

<p>What does that mean???</p>

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<p>

In the OP’s case, that is harmful misinformation. You should be far more careful!</p>

<p>Indiana has a rather excellent scholarship program that provides four years of tuition, fees, and a hefty book stipend for any college in Indiana. Whether the OP qualifies depends on the level of competition within his county. </p>

<p>[Lilly</a> Endowment, Inc. - Community Scolarship Program](<a href=“http://www.lillyendowment.org/ed_csp.html]Lilly”>Lilly Endowment Community Scholarship Program | Lilly Endowment Inc.)
[Indiana</a> College Choices – Home](<a href=“http://www.indianacollegechoices.org/lilly/lilly.asp]Indiana”>http://www.indianacollegechoices.org/lilly/lilly.asp)</p>

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<p>You also might want to check out Iowa State University…they are a big engineering school and actually hold the nations largest job fair for engineering yearly. I don’t think that recruiters would be coming if the students did not warrent it. Brand new engineering building and lots of research opportunities for undergrads.</p>

<p>As far as merit aid, we have found them to be very generous. Beautiful camapus, nice people, easy access to profs. Worth applying.</p>

<p>I also second the recommendation that you look at University of Alabama. Very impressive campus, new engineering building going up right now. GREAT merit aid for high stat OOS students. We just visited campus a couple of weeks ago and it was amazing.</p>

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<p>If Purdue is that affordable, I have to say that this seems the best option for you. I also second the suggestion of Cooper Union if you are looking for great program and very little cost (think housing is still an expense at CU, but hey, it’s free tution if you get in). Another school that may offer you big merit aid would be Case Western. Here’s an interesting link on some of the rankings. Start looking at some of these schools to see where you are likely to get more merit aid. There’s more merit school lists on CC too. What were your PSAT scores? Are you a National Merit semifinalist? That will give you a whole other list of potential merit scholarships if you reach Finalist standing. And there are lots of threads on those schools that are NM sponsored schools (the amount depends on the school, but CC will give you a good idea of which schools to target for merit aid). </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/700772-us-news-2010-graduate-engineering-rankings.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/700772-us-news-2010-graduate-engineering-rankings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>ucbalumnus- I’ve heard of that college before… will probably apply and see what happens</p>

<p>mom2collegekids- </p>

<p>Sorry, didn’t mean to make myself sound offended when I cleared up the confusion about being poor and whatnot… your prior assumption about being poor relative to tuition cost was spot on, I was just confirming it. Others thought that being poor would get need-based scholarships, but I am somewhat doubtful.</p>

<p>Also, no retirement is being collected on my dad’s behalf. </p>

<p>No reason not to apply to Purdue… just not necessarily sure if that is the absolute best as far as education is concerned.</p>

<p>Rose has given full-rides before (I know someone who received one). </p>

<p>And the Lilly Endowment (I think it is called that) is a full ride to any college of your choosing (maybe in Indiana only, I’m not for sure) and is certainly not out-of-reach for me (hopefully). </p>

<p>I was just curious, when I posted, what the absolute best engineering education available, disregarding cost. I should have left that part of the original post out entirely. </p>

<p>No to the NMSF… PSAT was less than stellar (worse than it should have been… I think part of my scantron thing was misread) I think my score was 79 math, mid 70’s on the other two. </p>

<p>“TIt’d be nice” was a typo… it was meant to say “It’d be nice”</p>

<p>To all–</p>

<p>I am likely to pursue a doctorate in some field of engineering (undecided at the moment)… so should I settle for Purdue (which is great to begin with) with no debt, then move on to higher degrees at berkley or MIT?
Also, I am hoping to do “research” (moreso investigation-type studies, if that makes since? not really sure what to call it… perhaps invent things? I don’t really know, but something along those lines)</p>

<p>I really hate the whole idea of education as it stands… “they” teach you facts and methods for accomplishing routine facts, sort of rote memorization. The whole idea, concep, etc., of fostering the ability of people to think, process, analyze, and whatnot, are completely killed throughout elementary and high school. Grades have no bearing on your competence as a person, just your ability to regurgitate processes and facts. And yet it is grades that determine your entrance into colleges, which sort of monopolize a person’s ability to have success in life… I guess I sort of identify with Howard Roark of The Fountainhead or Martin Arrowsmith of Arrowsmith… that type of thing, if any body is familiar with either of those works (hence the previous reference) </p>

<p>Sorry for the ranting… but I suppose that is just my opinion on everything as pertains to college lol. I mean, I get the straight A+'s and whatnot, but there are soooo many other things I would rather do than waste time on the busywork of school. </p>

<p>So apply to Rose Hulman, Purdue, Carnegie Mellon, Olin (nobody mentioned this one, but I like the idea of an 80-person class plus a potential (but temporarily reduced) full-tuition scholarship), and maybe Cooper Union. See what I get as far as financial offers go, apply for Lily Endowment, and see who offers me the most money. Hope to fall into research opportunities both as I go with professors as well as post-graduation. Reevaluate need for grad school after graduation, depending on circumstances and whatnot…</p>

<p>Seem like a plan?</p>

<p>Oh, and thanks so much for all of the responses on here, I had no idea this thread would get as much attention as it did.</p>

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<p>Ouch, Cooper Union’s admit rate is now 7.3%, according to US NEWS. </p>

<p>[Cooper</a> Union | Best College | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cooper-union-2710]Cooper”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cooper-union-2710)</p>