English and Philosophy Double Major

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

I’m torn. I want to major in English (a tentative emphasis in Creative Writing). But I also want to major in Philosophy. I understand they are very similar in theory; philosophical methodologies are employed to interpret literature to some degree and what not.

I am best in English, yet I feel as if my heart is in philosophy. I took one beginning course in philosophy and it was so darn intriguing, but I’m a bit discouraged from pursuing it any further because I received a “B” for for not completing my final essay under the lenses of those who we were studying (Kant, Descartes), but rather by constructing my own views and perspective on the essay topic. It was discerned, “not of the prompt.” I am dedicated to unearthing things and proving a point not previously seen (which may be my strength in essay writing?) But I’ve come to see it as a negative trait while studying philosophy.

I’m afraid to study philosophy because I feel as if I might not be cut out for it, and because the job market for it is far less than English from what I’ve heard and read up on (I’m not planning on going to law school). I would actually rather pursue a graduate degree in English, Philosophy, or Pedagogy. (With hopes of being a professor, implementing education reform, humanitarian efforts…)

On the other hand, I have received “A’s” in all of my English courses. I’ve completed most of my English prerequisites and am set to transfer in the Fall of 2015. I opened a previous discussion about staying at my community college another year out of personal interest, but I’ve decided I don’t want to- I just want to move on.

What are your thoughts on pursuing an interdisciplinary study undergoing a dual English/Philosophy undergraduate degree? My dream is to attend Stanford because they offer such a choice as an actual major, and the coursework outline is just jaw-dropping to me (in a good way). Should I stick with English because it includes some aspects of philosophy? Would I be allowed to complete the philosophy prerequisites as a transfer? Is there room to shift your major as a transfer? What are the risks involved?

I’m planning on Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSC, UCSB (so far in this order). But these are subject to immense change because I’ve yet to visit many of the campuses due to financial constraints.

Any and all things help. Beat me down. Bring me up. Slap me in the face. Awaken me. I just need any and all advice right now.

Many sincere thanks in advance you guys!

2

First of all, as far as I’m aware, it’s almost impossible to be admitted to Stanford as a transfer. Apply, certainly, but don’t expect to get in. It’s near impossible.

You can double major in both English and Philosophy. I was actually contemplating doing so, but I ultimately decided upon philosophy. I love English as well - specifically literature - but I decided that I’d rather study it on my own time, as I find it much more enjoyable to read literature than write papers about it.

The trouble with majoring in philosophy is that almost no prerequisites are offered at community colleges for many schools, or at least, none are offered at any CC that satisfy Berkeley’s requirements. I think some may satisfy LA’s requirements, but because I’ve spent a good amount of time into examining both the English and Philosophy requirements for Berkeley, I’ll talk about that.

Each major consists of 12 courses. That would be 24 total, although I think you can have some overlap. I’m not really sure about how the double majoring process works in that respect- but I’m sure there will be some overlap. Still, it’s a lot of classes, and a lot of units. You are allotted an additional semester (or quarter) if you have a double major, but it’s still a lot of classes. Anyway -

English prereq’s are available at many CC’s. You’ve probably completed most of them:

English 45A (Literature in English: Through Milton)
English 45B (Literature in English: Late 17th Through Mid-19th Centuries)
English 45C (Literature in English: Mid-19th Through the 20th Century)
English 17 (Shakespeare)

The first three are 4 units, and the last is 3.

The Philosophy prereq’s are as follows:

PHILOS 12A: Introduction to Symbolic Logic
PHILOS 25A: Ancient Philosophy
PHILOS 25B: Modern Philosophy

These are not available at any CC as far as I’m aware of, and they are all 4 units.

Lets say you wish to go to Berkeley (a natural choice, because their English and Philosophy departments are both good). You will have to complete a massive amount of courses if you want to double major. It’s definitely doable, but you may find that it’s not worth it. It’s just a massive amount of units in two relatively similar disciplines. In my opinion, it’s probably better to do a minor in one or the other.

Getting a B in one class shouldn’t discourage you from studying Philosophy. It happens when you’re used to writing English papers - you’re used to creating imaginative, clever responses vaguely using a literary lens. Philosophy is much more structured than English. The papers sort of write themselves. Er, ignore the rambling - what I want to emphasize is that writing English papers and writing Philosophy papers are different. There is overlap between the two subjects, but they are different, and not doing perfectly in a Philosophy course just because you’re used to writing English papers shouldn’t at all discourage you from pursuing Philosophy. Furthermore, any difference from marketability is EXTREMELY minor - an English degree essentially looks the same as a Philosophy degree on paper. You want to go to graduate school, so again, the difference is of minor consequence. There are pros and cons of majoring in either.

If you really are intrigued by philosophy, then I recommend studying it. It ultimately comes down to personal choice, and of course I’m biased, but it really is fun. If you’re cut out for English, you’re cut out for Philosophy. There may be some culture shock, but the two subjects aren’t that too far apart. I would recommend reading a couple of books by philosophers before you make the switch, if you do. Philosophical writings tend to be extremely dense, and often dull (unless you’re reading Nietzsche of course), especially in comparison to literature. I can give you some recommendations, if you’d like. There’s definitely overlap, and a lot of major philosophers were largely inspired by various literary figures (i.e. Dostoevsky).

Er, yeah, sorry for the unnecessarily long line of text, I’m terrible at explaining things concisely. Bottom line, if you feel that you’re passionate about philosophy, I think you should go for it. It’s possible to do a double major, but it may not be worth the effort, considering the amount of courses that you will have to take. I’d major in one if I were you. If you have any questions about what philosophy is like (it’s much less about ideas than you think, and much more about creating defensible arguments), feel free to ask.

Oh, and regarding this: “I am dedicated to unearthing things and proving a point not previously seen (which may be my strength in essay writing?) But I’ve come to see it as a negative trait while studying philosophy.” Don’t hold this to be true - creativity is an extremely valuable asset in philosophy, especially in writing papers. You just have to follow the prompt, and be convincing. I’m sure you can do well in writing philosophy papers, you’ll just have to acclimate.

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A couple of people up here got into Stanford this fall as transfers. I think they admitted something like 32 transfers. Very tough odds, as goldencub said, but you might just be the one.

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Thank you both for your responses. Lindyk8, I appreciate the inspiration.
Goldencub- thank you so much for your in depth response. Totally awesome and more than I expected. I see the distinctions you’ve made between English and Philosophy. Very helpful.

Yes, I’d like a few recommendations on some reads please.

Also, I was kind of hoping philosophy was more about the ideas. What is it exactly that you would be “defending” argumentatively? One view point over the other, say between two philosophers? Coming to a conclusive opinion on moral theory (not sure if that would be the proper terminology) as you’ve come to understand it from studying an array of philosopher/their philosophies? Do you state your own thesis/stance and support it with relevant backing? Is constructing/delving into your own “philosophy” something for graduate school or outside the classroom, or is challenging established viewpoints a part of a philosophy course? Are there wrong answers? Or are essays graded solely on their defense of others ideas? Does it depend on the course/ the professor?

What are you currently doing with your philosophy degree if you don’t mind me asking? Or are you still studying?

5

I have to recommend Nietzsche’s “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” (specifically the Hollingdale translation). One of my favorite all-around books, not so much of what he’s saying, but of the way in which he’s saying it. Really excellent - and you have to get that translation specifically. You don’t have to agree with everything (or most) of what he says, but it’s definitely worth a careful read.

“The Tao of Pooh” is a fun read, I’ve heard wonderful things about “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”, “Tao Te Ching” is a nice read, Plato’s works on Socrates (specifically “Apology” and “Allegory of the Cave”) are good to have read, do read Camus’ “The Stranger” if you haven’t yet, errr yeah. I read Descartes’ “Meditations on First Philosophy” which was awfully boring, but it will give you a sense of what many philosophical writings are like (and it is relatively short). I wouldn’t recommend it, though.

The best description of philosophy is “thinking about thinking” - yes, ideas will be involved, but you will be thinking about ideas, defending these ideas, and defending the way you think about these ideas. That’s what it’s about. You will find that almost no argument you give will be absolutely and completely true - anything can be argued against, anything can be uprooted and reconsidered, and anything can be falsified. That’s part of the thrill with the subject. You will not come to a conclusive stance on moral theory, because it all is open and evolving. Anything can, and will, be challenged. Certainly you develop a proclivity to specific ideas, but that is not to say that it’s absolute. More than anything, philosophy will teach you how to be skeptical about everything (even skepticism itself!), and think critically about anything in a very specific (yet not at all standardized), manner. Philosophy is really an odd thing, and I think that’s why the subject is so appealing.

Essays definitely depend on the professor. You generally will have to argue against something, show substantial reasoning, and be convincing/persuasive. Being a good writer will certainly help.

There are wrong answers when they are blatantly wrong. Like, for example, it would be silly of me to use a Freudian lens to argue against Sartre, suggest that his smoking cigarettes is a result of his not moving past the oral psycho-sexual stage of development, and that insecurity results in his inability to commit to his long-time partner, and then suggest that, because of this, his argument shouldn’t be taken seriously. Such a response is silly, and it also has no real substance/backing. You get it, I’m sure. There are some wrong answers outside of this - but it generally depends on the strength of your argument, if that makes sense. Try to make a solid, convincing argument.

Take two opposing viewpoints - one is black, and one is white. For essays, you will often take a stance between the two, in the grey area, and defend your position (or you can choose an extreme, which is perfectly fine if you can argue for it - it’s often a good exercise to make a solid argument from a position that you personally disagree with).

I’m a rising sophomore, and will be applying to transfer for Fall 2016 (to Cal, ideally). I’m not quite sure what I want to do yet, but I know I’ll be going to graduate school (for what, I’m not sure - law is a possibility, I was considering getting a PhD in philosophy, but eh).

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Great, I’ll definitely read those you’ve listed. I have Plato’s complete works, but have never opened it seriously. Actually, I read Descartes’ “Meditations on First Philosophy,” and I liked it.

And your definition on philosophy is exactly what I’m looking for. I’m looking to constantly grow, I don’t want exact answers. From the one philosophy course I’ve taken, that is what I felt- ever right, and ever wrong- almost simultaneously. I believe this is what draws me to it. And apparently others, it seems.

Right, right. I see what you’re saying with the chaotic argument. There must be some boundaries, I’m sure. Thanks for helping me see those. Your tips are awesome. I’m actually set to transfer in the Fall of 2016 (i know it said 2015 above, typo). Maybe I’ll see you in a philosophy class sometime. Best of luck on your personal essays.

7

Good luck to you as well! I’m sure you’ll pick the major that’s right for you.

Edit: Well, you’ve read Descartes and have enjoyed it, so there isn’t really much else. There are plenty of philosophy books you could read, but it may be better suited for the classroom. Look up Descartes on Amazon, click one of his books, and then look in the ‘related to this’ section (not what it’s called, but you’ll see what I mean). You can just sort of browse different books by different philosophers, read reviews, buy books you’re interested in for very little money, etc.