UC Transfer, Change Major?

Hey Everyone,

I think I might have applied as the wrong major. I was originally an English major, and had a couple of classes under my belt for the pre-req’s, but I found that English wasn’t interesting me as deeply as I thought. I read Philosophy in my spare time, so I decided to make an impulsive switch to Philosophy as my major. My personal statement explains this well. (Yes, I will have the transferable pre-req’s done).

Now, however, I find myself basing my decision of which university I would choose if I were accepted to each school (Cal, UCLA, UCD, UCSB, UCSC) more on my opportunity to take creative writing classes than on their Philosophy programs. For instance, I want to go to Cal because they have a minor in CW, but I’m not too sure their Philosophy program is for me. I would rather go to UCSB for their philosophy program, but it’s very difficult to be admitted into the CW classes as they are a part of the separate college, the College of Creative Studies.

  1. So, does it sound as if I chose the wrong major? Or is it normal to be weighing the options of a minor I would like to pursue heavily into my decision?
  2. Do you have any insights into any of these Philosophy programs? For instance, I heard UCLA leans more so on the Analytic tradition. Any idea for Cal, Davis, UCSB, and UCSB? (I try to make my own inferences from the coursework and professors' interest).
  3. I know every campus is different, but any advice on switching one's major after transfer?
  4. How difficult are Berkeley's/UCLA's philosophy programs, really? To be honest, I'm quite intimidated.

This is all speculation as it is still quite early in the admissions process, but I am confident that I am in good standing for each.

  1. Maybe. Maybe not. A minor is a good idea if you want to study another area in addition to your major, naturally. You should consider Berkeley's philosophy program; it's strong, and Berkeley has the minor you're looking for. If Berkeley's philosophy program isn't right for you, then no UC's program is because they're all pretty similar: they all practice "analytic" philosophy.
  2. As I said before, they're all analytic essentially. Berkeley has a little more continental influence, but only a little. I don't know the details of all of the other UCs, but they're definitely analytic, I can tell you that much.
  3. You'll want to switch majors asap after transferring, most likely. I can only speak for UCLA, but here, it's recommended to do that process in your first quarter/semester because that's when it's easiest to get approval. Also, it'll be easier to switch if you've done all of the requirements for the major you want to change into.
  4. Don't be intimidated. If you get accepted, it's because you can most likely handle the rigor of those programs. Yes, some transfers have stated over the years that they've found philosophy at Cal/UCLA to be much harder than CC, but they all stated that they eventually got used to it and did alright. It's all about doing the assigned readings, putting in a good amount of effort into the papers, and talking to professors and TAs when necessary. I got into UCLA philosophy in Fall 2014. I know a thing or two about this stuff, so feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

And it’s good that you’re confident about your chances. You’ll do fine after transferring, most likely. Also, talk to UC representatives about your specific challenges and get their input if you can. It’ll help.

  1. Planning to teach Creative Writing would make bending over backwards to have access to those classes more reasonable, but I would highly discourage focusing this much on it if you only wish to be a writer yourself.

Creative Writing does two things. It provides creative minds with exercises and advice to help them overcome obstacles that writers often face. Secondly, it provides writers with criticism. This can be extremely beneficial to some writers and absolutely worthless to others. If you are a writer who has no idea how to build a world or incorporate unique characterization and plot devices, then a creative writing class could be beneficial to you. If you are the type of writer who already has rich ideas and concepts and knows how you plan to execute them, but you have trouble because sometimes you get lazy. Because Its hard for you to sit down for hours on end. Then that is a completely different story.

So many aspiring writers search for creative writing courses thinking that they are going to come out of it with a book. They hope that those courses will turn them into productive writers. That is tragically incorrect. Creative Writing will teach the basics and offer tips, but when it actually comes from to the process of writing fiction there is nothing that is going to help you sit and stare at a screen in the middle of the night but sheer willpower. Your favorite writer is pulling their hair our right now because they can’t get anything good on the paper today as we speak. If you are creatively lost, take CW. If you are sitting on a great idea and simply struggling with motivation, then don’t go out of your way for those courses. You just have to get into the habit of sitting down and forcing yourself to write regularly like everyone else.

  1. I'll leave that for someone else.
  2. If the major is non-impacted with few prereqs, then switching into it is often a breeze. If the major is impacted, then the first step is to check the university policy on impacted majors and the department website. Some impacted majors still allow it. Many do not.
  3. Philosophy is general requires quite a bit of mental labor. No undergrad student is going to be expected to provide brilliant original work. Most of the work is going to be studying, interpreting, and elaborating on the concepts of others. If you are willing to put in the work and already have a love for writing, then you will do fine.

Only and definitely look into Rhetoric at UCB. It sounds perfect for your interests.

Cayton-

Thank you for all of your tips and insights. I do see how all of the schools have more of an Analytic approach, now that you mention it. Sometimes the areas seem sort of grey. I’m actually leaning more towards Continental, not that I’m opposed to Analytic, but I find it more in my interest (and I want more so a blend, although I’m sure none of the programs are cut and dry).

Okay awesome. Thank you for the reassurance- I’ve heard that quite a lot, that it’s immensely overbearing at Cal/UCLA, the coursework I mean. But I do believe in that idea of yours, that if they pick you, and you pick them, that there is a strong agreement and probable match for success. Thank you especially for the tip on the Reps, never thought about that one. I’ll definitely be PMing you some questions sometime soon, but just wanted to recognize your help for the moment.

TheVisionary-

Actually, that is what my end goal is: to teach Creative Writing. I do wish to be a writer, and I don’t find the classes as much as something that will give me the guidelines/techniques for plot and structure, but more so as an excuse to write, to have deadlines, and to be among kindred spirits who are passionate about the craft. A writing community, so to speak. It is much as you described in your second paragraph; I’m lazy and I need motivation. I do appreciate the distinction you made about the in-need-of-instruction aspiring writers and the lack-of-motivation writers. I wish I could spend more time writing, but I feel school gets in the way sometimes, so I tell myself I need an excuse to do it. I write often, but an outlet would be nice.

With that being said, I have taken a lot from what you have said. I probably will not be searching feverishly for a creative writing experience when they have a CW minor at Berkeley, which as Cayton reiterated has a strong Philosophy program.

That is great to know, the originality part. It doesn’t bother me much although it is somewhat a contradiction to creative writing.

Funny you mention Rhetoric… I was interested in it once upon a time and I looked quite a little bit into it… but was deterred because I believed so heavily in Plato’s view that it is used only as a means of corrupting others. (I don’t this is necessarily true, I was just geared more towards the truth Philosophy provides). But among your suggestions, I will definitely reconsider it. Thank you a bunch.


Probably the Rhetoric program focuses on studying rhetoric, not teaching you how to be effective at corrupting others. Plato might even have considered majoring in it.

http://rhetoric.berkeley.edu/undergraduate-program

Maybe so!

@fignewt8694

Ok, then I see the internal debate that you’re having. Professors of philosophy, rhetoric, etc, obviously teach a fair amount of non-fiction writing, but if you would rather specialize in creative writing then I would imagine that the standard is having a formal background in English and CW.

The reason why I recommend Rhetoric is because it is much more novel based. Getting a bachelors in Rhetoric and a masters in Creative Writing would be a much more complementary combination than getting a bachelors in philosophy. Of course, at UCB, you will be free to take many elective classes outside of whichever major you choose. I would simply imagine that rhetoric would lead you down a path towards teaching writing much better than philosophy. If you happen to go somewhere else then I do agree with the concept of getting a minor in English or CW.

Creative writing courses would definitely be helpful in learning how to better help others in the future. A great writing teach can do wonders. We’re all struggling when it comes to motivation. I keep pushing back the window of when I intend to be a published writer. Soon I’ll just have to chain myself to the desk and throw away the key.

The Rhetoric department at Berkeley focuses more on Continental thought than the Philosophy department, apparently. Naturally, because Berkeley has a top-tier Philosophy program, it is primarily analytic, although there are some offerings in the continental realm (Dreyfus teaches at Berkeley, he’s a Heidegger scholar). Look into the course offerings, you may be interested (upper-divs specifically).

I’ve heard good things about the CW classes at Berkeley.

@TheVisionary

I so see what you mean about rhetoric as a more sensible path in that regard. If I won’t be able to make the switch after I transfer, at least I will be able to supplement the philosophy major with courses in rhetoric (assuming I’m accepted, knock on wood!).

I agree, my CW teacher inspired/ motivated me like no other- they are priceless if they can open the eyes of the students in the right way. Throw away that key, you never know what could happen. Thanks again for the tips.

@goldencub

Hmm… interesting. I guess that makes sense, since analytic seems more practical and what not. I’ll look further into them and read the descriptions. I’ve grazed over the titles several times, but I’ll look deeper. Thank you!