Env Studies versus Env Science

Parents Forum
1

Does anyone have a student currently studying environmental studies or science? I’ve heard that the Env Science degree is much more marketable. Wondering if anyone has any guidance on the issue.

Our S19 is undecided and I think he will go into college remaining so. The one thing he does know is that he’s really enjoying his Earth Science H class and would like to investigate that path more. He will take AP Environmental Science next year. He’s also interested in political science and econ which would put him squarely in the environmental studies category, yet he likes the hard sciences as well…hence the indecision.

We are looking primarily at LACs. We would like to get some merit since we are full pay so Dickinson, Denison, Kenyon, Grinnell, Macalester on the list. We will, however, be also looking at a few full pay schools and are considering Middlebury, Bowdoin, Brown, and Carleton.

I’ve looked into each of their programs and it’s pretty confusing. Some of the “studies” programs have very little hard science and some require a few science classes. And many of these schools only have environmental studies majors and not the science one. Do kids sometimes major in something like Geology or Earth Science and then minor in environmental studies if the school doesn’t have a Environmental Science major? And what about the marketability of the Environmental Studies degree. I think it’s becoming popular now and I’m wondering if it’s becoming more important to go to a highly ranked school if this becomes his major.

Thoughts?

2

I am providing a link to the Eckerd College page on Environmental Studies that looks at possible career paths after undergrad. degree: eckerd.edu/environmental-studies/success/ He could also consider a minor in geosciences that offers more hard core science courses. Several of my daughter’s classmates graduated with a degree in environmental studies and all have gone on to graduate school, one to engineering, one to law school, and one to the National Parks Service. There are a number of different pathways that he may follow.

3

I’m happy to hear about the Env Studies outcomes, as my D17 and D19 are considering that major. D17 would be more likely to pursue law or social studies grad school, so Env would be suitable (and her LAC does not have Env Science). I’d think many LACs lack the Env Science major but provide great undergrad educations, so grad school/employment are good. Thanks for examples, @ECmotherx2

4

Thanks, @ECmotherx2 . The link is super helpful and kudos to Eckerd for being so thorough! S19 has no plans to go to grad school right after undergrad. And @PetulaClark, I agree. Most LACs provide great undergrad education so kids are prepped for all different types of jobs. Still wondering what the difference is between the two degrees when it comes to the types of jobs that could work. Seems like an Environmental Science major with good writing and analytical skills could do all sorts of jobs. Don’t know if having the hard science part really matters unless the student intends to go to graduate school.

5

http://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2016Majors

You may want to take a look at the survey results for the College of Natural Resources majors (CRS, EEP, ES may be most similar to those of interest to you).

Prior years at http://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/Survey .

6

@homerdog: In case you haven’t explored the Environmental Science major page on the Carleton College website, here’s a useful link: https://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/ents/faq/
It might answer some of your questions. Don’t be afraid to contact individual departmental faculty members to seek answers to questions that you have.

7

@MinnesotaDadof3 Thanks. :slight_smile:

Indeed, I have seen that page and understand that, at Carleton, S19 could minor in a hard science and major in ENTS. And your advice makes a lot of sense. Since S19 is just a junior, he has time to ask questions. In fact, he will be at Carleton next week and is sitting in on an ENTS class. Should be very interesting to see what he thinks.

I think I’m just trying to narrow his list a little bit. Until now, he hasn’t had any leanings when it comes to major/minor. Some of the schools on his list definitely have more developed programs for Env Studies or Env Science.

8

Also, in the linked career surveys from #4, the society and environment major as well as the CRS, EEP, and ES majors may be worth a look for comparison. Some other majors may be relevant as well, depending on his interests.

9

Here is another school’s career survey, where some majors similar to those you mentioned are included:
https://careers.calpoly.edu/search.php

10

Thanks @ucbalumnus!!

11

Enviro Studies seems to be a broader type of major that deals with impact, policy, etc. (might even be required to pair it with another major), while Enviro Science is more hardcore science based. D is declaring Enviro Science at the end of this semester (at a large research university) and it’s very science heavy (Chem, OChem, Physics, Bio, Math, etc. for starters).

As OP mentions, his interests put him in the Studies realm. I don’t know if Studies is a BA or a BS, but a BS degree tends to be more marketable.

12

Although Environmental Science has been around for decades, Environmental Studies which incorporates several different disciplines – e.g., biology, chemistry, oceanography, geology, economics, political science, ethics, anthropology, architecture-- is a relatively recent, but fast growing, development. Like computer science departments that used to be narrow and nerd , Environmental Studies has become one of the most popular and well funded majors. A synergistic, interdisciplinary approach is common.

I don’t think there’s a black and white difference in the level of career success or job availability between Environmental Science and Environmental Studies. Although there’s a core academic overlap, they use different skill sets, and one may be more appropriate to your son than the other. As always, how the student takes advantage of opportunities during their undergraduate years has a big impact on job placement. So in addition to studying curriculums, look at internships, research and travel, alumni/ae networking and career and graduate school counseling.

A degree in environmental anything can lead to a wide range of careers in science, education, law, health, government and industry. NGOs and think tanks with environmental focus abound and nearly every corporation has an environmental CSR component. Environmentalism is a vast and expansive sector – both public and private – that impacts how we work today, no matter what our field.

An Environmental Studies major, minor or concentration may contain a core of required courses upon which the student builds depending on his/her area of interest. There’s a good deal of interconnectivity among the different specialities, and the boundaries are flexible.

From Williams Environmental Studies Major:

You might take a look at Williams Center for Environmental Studies which over 50 years has produced influential environmental activists.
https://ces.williams.edu/

13

Science remains very important to understanding environmental issues, but ultimately the solutions to our environmental problems entail changing human behavior. The program I teach in chose the Environmental Studies moniker because of this, even though we do still teach a lot of environmental science courses. A previous incarnation of our program had “tracks” in science and in policy, and what we found was that as often as not the students who graduated from the policy track would be in careers that we would have expected the science students to be in, and vice versa.

So I would say that at the undergraduate level, it really doesn’t matter what the program is called so long as the student has the opportunity to get a good grounding in the sciences as well as an understanding of the human dimensions of environmental issues and their solutions. Note that this can be accomplished and enhanced through a combination of major and minor choices.

14

I don’t think it matters much, as someone said, the difference is if the student likes the ‘science’ end or the ‘policy’ end. One of mine started in Environmental Science but switched to ENVS after a water law class and got heavily involved in research as well as getting involved with state policy organizations around water rights and conservation. There are core classes that both majors take. He is and was employed right after college doing the same job as the ENTS major in the office next to his and splits his days between office work doing basic business planning and budgeting and being outside in the field checking and testing and whatever else they do “outside.” Mine is only 25 now, but is contemplating law school and concentrate on water rights. We’ll see, he has a decent career path so it’s up to him.

15

Environmental policy often depends more on political science and economics than natural science. Natural science may help tell you what the effects of policy are likely to be (or what the effects of past policies were/are), but those making policy may not necessarily listen to that.

16

My D is an environmental science major and takes science classes ( chemistry etc) as well as policy classes. She currently has a research position in the dept combining the two.

17

@ucbalumnus “those making policy may not listen to that.”

Ugh.

18

@homerdog

You are asking the right questions. I have two nephews who majored in environmental science, and neither one actually works in the field. I also have a brother-in-law who works for the State of New York in air and water quality, and he says that they primarily hire environmental engineers. My impression is that if you go the environmental science route, getting research and internship experience while in college is very important to breaking into the field as a career and you may also need a graduate degree.

As far as average salaries, environmental studies majors earn less than environmental science majors, who earn less than environmental engineers.

It it wise to be investigating the options at the beginning of this path, and not at the end.

19

I completely agree ^

My D is actually planning to switch out of environmental science and back to her original major…as she is now recognizing… I think… what she wants to do. She loves the classes in environmental sciences, loves the discussions, loves her research position… but started investigating the job prospects with an undergrad degree and then a masters… and started talking to people… and was questioning if those jobs were for her.

20

@Much2learn @twogirls Thank you both for the insight. You both struck a nerve with me. First, it’s one thing to think earth science is interesting, but it’s another to want to work in the environmental industry. Second, it’s important to really know the path you’re on if you intend to work in that industry and if most people end up with graduate degrees.

I entered undergrad as a biomedical engineering major not knowing (1) how crazy difficult the work was going to be and (2) that almost all of the undergrads at that time went right to grad school. I had no idea. Pretty much wasted two trimesters trying to figure that out. I don’t want the same to happen to our kids.

I have a friend whose son is an Econ and Classics double major - Econ because it’s marketable and Classics because he loves it. Seems wise to me. Since S19 is a strong math student, he should probably utilize that for a major to develop his analytical skills and then he can choose a second major or a minor for something else. Many of the schools on his list make it pretty easy to double major and he could do so easily in Econ or Math and then Environmental Studies. (He’s not interested in engineering.)