It does help to have a will but depending on how things are titled and ownership of accounts, and if things are in a trust, some things still need to go through probate.
We had a fairly straight forward situation with my parents with almost everything in the names of the heirs, except their condo. I’ll save you the complicated reasons that wasn’t as straight forward, but we needed to go through probate and even when we got through it, there was an issue with how the property had been titled and homesteaded. The legal fees were crazy to get that all straightened out and it cost us a couple of months extra in carrying costs. We were lucky our buyers didn’t walk away.
It took me about 18 months to close out the last account and everyone told me we were super lucky to get it done “so quickly.”
We redid our wills and created a trust so our D wouldn’t have to go through all the hassles we did!
OP I feel for you. I was the executor and only heir of my parents (they died 4 days apart and I am an only child) and I had already sold their house 2 years earlier. Eighteen months later, things are still ongoing even though their “estate” was just some mutual funds and life insurance policies. No cars, real estate or other items.
I have a attorney who is handling a lot of this for me, because there are special forms for everything with a beneficiary. I even had to prove that my maternal grandparents are unable to collect on an old insurance policy of my mom’s so that I can collect (ummmm . . .the deceased was in her mid-80s, I think it’s clear that her PARENTS are also deceased. But of course I had to produce a death certificate or a death notice published in a major newspaper).
BUT- unless you are super on top of things you are going to end up with some complications. Parent moves out of state to be close to an adult child. Parent ends up in a nursing home in that state. Parent has switched voter registration to the new address. By the end the parent has dementia.
Original State has significantly lower estate taxes than Nursing Home state. There are many factors which would go into residency (voter registration being only one of them) but clearly- as executor, you want the “best deal” for the heirs which means a claim that original state is the domicile, and Nursing Home state was just for medical reasons with no intent to establish long term residency, etc. Ugh.
Or- the real estate is a coop, not a single family home. Which means the estate owns shares in a corporation, and cannot just sell the property (or “dump the property” which is what the heirs want) without the coop board approving the buyers. And they can be VERY capricious, and don’t really care that the property is empty and the heirs want the estate settled ASAP.
Wills help prevent a lot of the blocking and tackling. But you still have to follow the process- and satisfy any debts (and unpaid taxes are a BIG debt) before anyone gets a nickel.
The executor needs to communicate very clearly to the estate lawyer being used. This is key.
I was my mom’s only child, the executor of her estate. My kids were the only other heirs, and it was a small estate with no real property to dispose of in any way. It still took almost two years to close this out. Our lawyer was fabulous and only charged us for actual hours spent on our case, thank goodness. And she allowed us to submit things to her paralegal like accounts and balances and the like.
We emptied my mom’s apartment in a month. We didn’t drag it out at all. And at the end of that month I had all the utilities turned off in her name because the place she rented was no longer in her name.
I used more than a dozen death certificates and this was not a complicated estate.
Your daughter needs an expert on the ground where she is to help her navigate this process. An estate lawyer and executor far away really aren’t going to work efficiently, in my opinion.
$3000 a day to empty the house! Say what? Get an estate person and do a deal whereby the heir(s) get to take things they want first, then the estate person liquidates the rest for a fixed sum paid to the estate.
Time is money…Unless these are extremely valuable house contents, liquidate as quickly as possible and get that house sold ASAP.
Thumper, it’s not always possible to get the house sold ASAP- see my post about the state putting a lien on real property UNTIL the estate has filed the tax returns!!! I was also asked by the heirs “just sell it ASAP; liquidate as quickly as possible”. No. It’s the unknown unknowns that cost money! And I couldn’t turn off the utilities (again, the heirs didn’t want to be paying water, electric, etc.) because any prospective buyer is going to flush a toilet or walk into the basement- which means you need power (and in this case, heat/oil tank refilled).
Nobody likes an empty house. But some things take time! And the heirs grumbled about the property insurance… but as the lawyer pointed out to them… a prospective buyer falls on a cracked tile in the bathroom, hits his head, etc… do you really want to lose every penny Mom left you settling a claim because you were trying to save a few hundred dollars on your homeowners???
My advice- don’t cut corners. And that means things are going to take some time.
My mom died in May 2020 without a will. It’s taken over two years and everything still isn’t wrapped up.
I wish I’d known her affairs were not in order, at all.
I wish I’d known something about probate, wills, and the consequences of not having anything remotely ready if you’re an elderly person. I will not be doing this to my kids.
I wish I’d known that despite honest intentions and obtaining legal counsel, the children are the ones who will get the ding on their credit reports through no fault of their own.
Folks, have that awkward conversation with your parents, assuming they are still cognizant. Don’t let them get out of it, even if it might be upsetting. They aren’t getting any younger.
I understand it is going to take time. My suggestion is to try to figure out what they can liquidate.
I just think $3000 a day to clean out a house sounds like quite a lot.
Yes, the utilities need to be left on until the house is sold. They need to also check the home insurance because now this is an unoccupied home, and the insurance will likely need to be adjusted to reflect this.
And yes, I do understand about liens and such. This is where a lawyer in the state where the property is located can help with what is and isn’t allowed to happen.
This is a single heir according to this poster. In some ways, that should help the process.
I wish the best to this young lady as she works with the executor and lawyer(s) to get this estate settled.
Your DIL has just lost her mom! She probably feels like being able to do something for her mom’s estate would help her to process the loss. Instead, she is just left with the loss and her hands are tied to do some of those things (paperwork, household contents, etc) that truly do become part of the grieving process.
We are all different but for me, when my mom died (unexpectedly) every little task from the funeral to emptying out the refrigerator made me feel like I was helping her. With care, I was taking care of her world. It would have been very hard to not be able to do any of that in the early weeks/months after she died.
Let’s remember that OP is a bit of a bystander in this situation and sounds like she wants to be helpful if possible for her DIL when she can - but she can’t do anything about the past things that weren’t lined up and she may only have so much she can do during the process with/for her DIL.
This is my way of saying be kind, be helpful, but let’s not be harsh. (Public service announcement over!)
I just sent the final disbursement and court docs for an estate. Deceased had no will but only one heir. I didn’t hire an attorney because the employee at the register of Wills walked me through it. Sold the house, cleaned out his things but as mentioned above, it took 2.5 years to get the tax refund from the IRS (took the state 6 weeks). I only used about 5 death certificates because the bank scanned the original and gave it back to me. If your dil is not executer, not sure there is much for her to do except educate herself and keep on top of the executer. I would ask for copies of everything.
Parents on both sides had trusts so no probate was required. I don’t know that probate is difficult, but it was nice to have one less thing to deal with, especially a government thing. I don’t want to go to the DMV, why would I want to go through probate?
After the first parent died, despite me being 100% on top of everything, all the accounts etc., it took nearly a year to finish getting Dad’s name off the last little joint accounts. And it took a while to move my Mom and deal with all the stuff.
When Mom went, we still had their house, rented & I sold it to the tenant, but it took a while to make that happen. If the house closed in month #1, I think I disbursed 95% of funds in month #2 and then dealt with two tax returns and waited the appropriate amount of time to have anyone come forward with a debt, and closed it. Pretty simple.
When the other set of parents died, about 6 months apart, they also had their home rented, we awaited vacancy, sold it and closed within a couple of months and had the tax returns done and everything closed out within 6-8 weeks. They had moved out of their home and we had done an estate sale during their lives, that whole process of dealing with the move out & rental took a few months.
In each case we were the executors/trustees & had handled all the accounts in the final years, we were completely familiar with everything.
I think trusts are uncommon in many states without big probate costs, but I was quite pleased to be able to take care of everything on my timeline.
My SisIL died in 2012. Her 2 surviving brothers were her heirs. It took 2-3 years with an executor who had been an executor for other estates and has a law degree, consulting with the estate attorney to close the estate. Both the executor and estate attorney sent bills and were paid. SIL created a trust so was able to avoid probate and save a bundle of $$$ in CA. No property was sold.
My brother, who never married or had children, died without a will. Another brother became executor, and he had so much work to do to settle things. He even had to file state & federal taxes for a number of years, because my deceased brother had neglected to do that. We did a search for unclaimed money in his name in all states where he had lived (https://unclaimed.org/). Debts had to be found & negotiated or paid (only one credit card company wanted payment). The landlord wanted payment through the end of the lease, so he had to deal with that (no way was she getting that money). Our parents are deceased, so the siblings were next of kin - but one of our siblings pre deceased him, so we had to locate his D (who cut ties with our family after her dad died) & get her to sign forms. She inherited his portion, per state law. The one bright spot was my brother’s union, who helped us with life insurance & retirement account information. It took more than two years to wrap it up.
My dad’s estate was much easier to settle. Wills can make life easier … as does filing your taxes before you die.
I think perhaps one issue here is the executor, and estate lawyer are 1500 miles away. Things do vary from one state to another in terms of settling estates, I believe. Perhaps a consult anyway with a local estate lawyer might be helpful for your DIL.
I handled my mother in law’s estate (my husband was the actual executor, but I did all the paperwork). I remember that even when everything was finally settled there was one more year’s tax return to file (for the estate’s Social Security number).
Yep, there is the final return for the person under their SSN and then the estate tax return from the DOD to the closing of the estate. Like if you sell a house or make income after the death occurs.
After seeing another family member as an executor with the daunting task of an unorganized estate, we took their advice and had FiL meet an estate attorney to establish trusts, including transferring title of home to trust etc. Nobody was in a hurry because he was in such good health and never sick a day in his life. It took time to research recommended estate attorneys, took time to schedule a meeting (good attorneys are in high demand, and on top of that it was complicated by COVID), took time to draft and review documents, took time to contact institutions and alter accounts. You get the picture that it took time - and before you know it he was diagnosed with aggressive terminal cancer. Fortunately we had started the estate planning process early enough to be in a better position which has help the executor immensely. If we hadn’t started earlier, then the story would have been different, so the lesson is to get moving on it.
Also, if IRA’s are involved then there are rules associated with inherited IRA’s that should be understood.
Condolences to DiL and you all.
It will take time.
There will be surprises.
Can be a rollercoaster of emotions.
There will be helpful people along the way. These helpful people are and will be a revelation and a testament to the good in humanity.
OP here, as mentioned upthread DH and I are just collecting information but not attempting to do much more than offer advice when asked.
To clarify, the executor is 1500 miles away but the lawyer is not. Lawyer is at the deceased’s town. DiL & S1 are about an hour away.
I have been wondering if it would make sense for S/DiL to go up to the house and take photos of the exterior to establish condition, in the event the home is broken into? They took photos inside when they were in the house looking for the will.
It will be at least a year before it can be sold, I would guess. I think of dumb stuff like the lawn must be out of control, the mom would have had someone mowing it but are they still doing that? And there’s no way to know who that was. The mail is likely still coming too but only an executor can do a forwarding order
If there is a silver lining at all, it is conversations DH is now having with his own parents. It has been a real reality check for them, which they needed. DH and I have everything already done and have had sit downs with our kids explaining what happens after we are gone. But my in laws are deeply unprepared.
