<p>No one is saying the 'hack' is illegal. </p>
<p>Highhopes and I were agreeing that ACT can determine what IT, as a company, believes is ethical, as can any testing institution, or college. </p>
<p>Isn't it better to clarify this issue, and conclude all is well, rather than to read about the punishment of hundreds of students next week in national media? (See link to Harvard Business School applicants' rejections due to their accessing their decision results early- in ACT prep link).</p>
<p>Yes, fauve, I agree.</p>
<p>But anyone who reads through this thread should be able to clearly conclude that all is well.</p>
<p>fauve, </p>
<p>your argument is so flawed that i have to respond to almost every ignorant word you type. the ACT cannot determine this an ethical issue. they determine the legality of actions. the kids will not be punished for their actions because that would mean what they did was illegal, which you say the 'hack' isn't illegal (right you are there!). also your allusion to this Harvard business school scandal can in no way compare to what these kids are doing. those kids actually HACKED (not in quotes lol) to see their decisions. there's a big difference between pasting a URL than hacking into a system or server.</p>
<p>Ok, here's a question. If ACT had the scores available for several days now, and is no longer charging for an early peek, why the heck are they waiting to make the link visible? If they don't care if kids see their scores as soon as they are available, why the special date, etc.?</p>
<p>For GFG, I think that some scores are available but that ACT waits to release until all scores are available.</p>
<p>Do the students not see the similarities between what they are doing and what the MBA students did in March/April 2005?</p>
<p>Back then, the students accessed the admissions websites of Stanford, Duke, Harvard, MIT etc, to learn of their admissions decisions before they were released. The decisions were available-just like these ACT scores. But not yet released--just like these ACT scores. </p>
<p>No one changed the admissions decisions; no one has changed their ACT scores. But the MBA programs revoked/rescinded the acceptances of any students whose accounts showed they had been accessed before the permitted time. </p>
<p>The schools had little appreciation for the ethics of the kids who exploited any loophole they could find for easy access. It's an ethical thing--just because a loophole might be available doesn't mean one should exploit it.</p>
<p>ack,</p>
<p>This is really more of a linguistics argument now. I suspect the extremely high emotions emanate from the mere suggestion that the kiddies COULD have made a mistake. Which, if you read my posts carefully, I acknowledge they did not, according to the techno-savvy arguments.</p>
<p>And you ignore my previous claims--I am delighted that the students' actions are harmless. This is a fabulous example of the very usefulness of CC- to expose, examine and elucidate issues. </p>
<p>(Perhaps a little less vitriol and hyperbole is in order- really- "every ignorant word"- tsk, tsk.)</p>
<p>Sure they wait until all scores are available because that's the FAIR way to do it. At the very least, these kids have an inflated sense of entitlement and self-importance to even try to find out ahead of time. While I haven't looked at this ACT link myself or read the original thread, it sounds like you may be right that there was nothing at all wrong done in this case.</p>
<p>But IN GENERAL (ie. not this case where apparently nothing was stolen), I take issue with the idea that if a business makes an error which allows you to obtain a benefit or additional benefit that you did not pay to obtain, then if you take advantage of it you are doing nothing wrong. Hogwash. People pulled stunts like this with cable, phone, and internet companies, whereby they got free cable or phone and internet services by splicing into neighbor's lines, etc. Apparently, the companies are wiser now and this is tougher to do. What if a company is negligent enough to leave their store open and unattended after hours? Because they were stupid, does that mean it's OK to take stuff? Stealing is not OK just so long as you only steal from stupid people.</p>
<p>No one's stealing anything, we're simply viewing a link that has been made public but has not yet been made visible on the site. There is no unfair advantage obtained - students can view their scores as they are posted. We've learned that the ACT company is aware of this link that can access a certain portion of their site and they have chosen to leave the option open.</p>
<p>boysx3:</p>
<p>The MBA students were punished because they HACKED into a system, something that is not only "unethical" but also ILLEGAL. </p>
<p>Think of it this way: in order to view their acceptance status, they knocked down a locked door. </p>
<p>In order to see their scores, students here are simply looking through a window (which happens to be at eye level... no stool is needed to reach it).</p>
<p>Shaky analogy, perhaps, but you seem to refuse all the logical, clear-cut explanations that have been provided for you.</p>
<p>i read this entire topic (and the ACT topic) and i just cant help but wonder if this was some parent's ploy to un/consciously harm other students' chances of getting into schools in order to put their child at a better advantage. hmmm</p>
<p>but regardless, i dont understand why the students did this "hack" in the first place. its kind of a "right of passage" to have to wait for your scores just like the rest of us had to do. its a part of the college process. we are lucky enough to get to see our scores online 10 days later rather than having to wait 6-8 weeks for the official score report in the mail. obviously these students werent taught or havent caught onto the value of PATIENCE. wow, what a novel concept!</p>
<p>"almost every ignorant word" .. and after that last post i'm not sure what your argument is anymore.</p>
<p>
[quote]
obviously these students werent taught or havent caught onto the value of PATIENCE. wow, what a novel concept!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would reconsider that opinion. You don't know anything about these students.</p>
<p>Agree with laurstar #76. Some of these parents don't know what they are talking about! CC does not care;ACT does not care;and they do? Just read the following written by goodkarma who claims to report the 'hack' to ACT and one can smell jealousy,anger and frustration,who knows,maybe his/her kid scored 18 in the ACT! Read on:
I just wonder why the "college experiences" ie Harvard, are seen as more worthy than others. Its just an impression I am getting from this site. As a newbie, it surpises me that the thoughts about college so lopsided here in the "tradtional" path being the valued one, while to be honest, that path is more and more difficult to achieve and that taking oneself into the bigger arena is not seen as valuable or even necessary to so many.</p>
<p>I think that students should be encouraged, and actually pushed to be much more part of their communities and cities, or towns, instead of being in an insular world.</p>
<p>Academia is wonderful, but in a bubble, not so much.</p>
<p>it's a url site that is not just noted on CC, but on in many other places as well. Clearly ACT knows about it, it has been going on for a long time.</p>
<p>Frankly I gotta side with the kids on this one. They did a much better job of explaining the technical difference between a "hack" and the unsecure link that the ACT neglected to close appropriately. No harm no foul here. It makes not one whit of difference if kids saw their score on Monday instead of Wednesday, not one whit of difference. I don't think it was wrong of the poster to "tell" the ACT about the open link although if it's been "known" since December it would surprise me if ACT didn't already know about this. Condemnation of the kids is really abit over the top in this day and age of the internet. What could the ACT possibly "do" to the kids who figured out the URL? Maybe send them a nastygram but that would be corporately and publically laughable. The kids paid for the test, the kids took the test and they are entitled to their scores and sure as shootin' they figured out how to get them! Remember these are kids who cannot remember not having a computer and were born into the internet age. Frankly they should send a nastygram to their IT group. If there was any borderline unethical behavior it was the person who figured this what is in reality a really simple solution and "decided" to post and share it with the world.</p>
<p>It's a Thursday afternoon in 1992, just before the internet comes online for the masses. Professor C has just finished giving the latest midterm to his class and before they leave he tells them that he'll post the results on the board outside his office first thing Monday morning and the students can swing by then to have a look at their score. An ID code is used for each student so they can identify which score on the chart is theirs.</p>
<p>On Friday afternoon Tom, one of the students in the class, happens to be walking past Professor C's office and notices that he's already posted the results of the exam on the board. Professor C said the results would be out Monday morning, but there they were right on the board on Friday. Tom doesn't know if Professor C just made a mistake or perhaps intentionally put the scores up early for anyone that happens to swing by... but regardless there they are placed up in public for anyone that swings by to see. </p>
<p>At dinner that evening Tom tells some of his other friends in the class that he noticed that Professor C had already posted the scores and all they needed to do was go look at the public notice board outside his office to find out what their score was. Several students do this and by word of mouth other students also check out their score. </p>
<p>When Monday morning rolls around the remaining students, who for whatever reason didn't get word that Professor C had posted the scores early, go and find out their scores too when Professor C originally said he would post them.</p>
<p>Is Tom an evil daemon lacking any ethical integrity? Should we hang and flog him? </p>
<p>Fast forward to 2008. The situation described with the ACT is exactly the same. The ACT, for whatever reason, posted the scores in a public location accessible to anyone that cared to look. In the 1992 example that location was a notice board outside the professor's office and in 2008 that location is a public webpage on a public webserver accessible to anyone anywhere in the world. </p>
<p>I don't think what Tom did was wrong. The information was out there in public... he didn't break into Professor C's office to get it... it was right there for anyone to see. The location was perhaps not obvious to others that didn't stumble across it, but regardless there it was and I don't see what the problem is with him taking a look. </p>
<p>For those suggesting we hang and flog these students, think about the story above because it's the exact same thing. However instead of a public noticeboard and dining hall gossip it's a public webpage and message board gossip. Same ethics, same legalities, different technical age.</p>
<p>Very nice analogy rocketman. Internet (for the business person) feels like its been around longer than 1992 - I feel like I was using LexisNexis since the mid- 80s?? I do know that my 14 year old cannot remember a day without the internet in our house. This next generation will certainly keep my 50+ year old brain on over-drive no doubt! OK I'm no longer even morally miffed with the person who originally posted the work-around (and work-around is what these kind of short cuts are often called in the business world for the less internet saavy who is reading).</p>
<p>This is sad. This thread could have been created days earlier to deter students from trying to get their scores early(in order to protect us from legal issues). Instead, someone waited until after students already used the hack to exploit our "bad ethics" and make us feel guilty for our anxiousness to see how we did on the test.
Hopefully, this wasnt the intent behind this thread.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the ethical issue is not with the students accessing the information, but with the ACT company that made it available on the internet without securing it. If your students can access it so easily, so can other people. This isn't a hack, and it isn't like stealing cable. Instead, the best analogy would be that the ACT company printed out the scores and nailed them to a tree in plain site, letting people drive up to that tree and look at them.</p>
<p>I am always so frustrated with companies that use the internet without understanding how it works, especially with regard to how to secure data. It isn't a loophole, it is a company deliberately leaving data unsecured for the world to find.</p>