Distressed Mother

Parents Forum
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<p>NorthStarMom recommended that I post in this section as well...Today my son confessed to me that he lied about his SAT scores to the UC's and CSU's. I am angered, confused, and worried for my son. He has worked hard taking honors and AP classes. If he is accepted for admission into the schools what will happen to him? Do they ask for official SAT transcripts once students are admitted? My son has ethics, I just feel that I have pushed him too hard. Any input is greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your help</p>

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<p>DentalMom~</p>

<p>First of all, {{{{{hugs}}}}} to you. I know how stunned and disappointed you must have been to find this out. </p>

<p>The schools do ask for official score reports from the testing agencies, so if your son did misrepresent his score, they will find out. Actually, the schools ususally send them as well with the transcript, so I'm not really sure how he did this? On the application? :confused:</p>

<p>The college app. experience has gotten to be <em>SO</em> very stressful for students and parents alike. I know this doesn't excuse what your son did, but it may help you in understanding. I do believe you fully when you say that your son has ethics. Young people make mistakes all the time...it is just part of their learning curve.</p>

<p>I am not sure what will happen as a result of this, but I just wanted to let you know that my heart goes out to you.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>Since I already answered to the best of my ability on another board the college admissions part of your posts, I want to now say something about the parenting part.</p>

<p>Above all, make sure that you tell your S that you love him whatever his scores are. Even if you did this when he told you about what he did, make sure that you do it again. As you probably realize, he probably is very worried, ashamed and also is concerned about disappointing you. </p>

<p>Also let him know that it's not whatever college he is accepted to that will determine his future, but what will help determine his future will be how he takes advantage of whatever college he ends up going to. We are so lucky in the U.S. to have a couple of thousand colleges that students can attend, and all types of colleges have had graduates who became very successful. Your son is particularly fortunate to live in California, which probably has the best public university system in the country, and also has a strong group of private universities. </p>

<p>I do think that if he writes the colleges and tells them what his real scores are, they aren't likely to hold what he did against him. If, however, he lets the application stand without correcting it, the colleges may hold that against him when they realize that he misrepresented his scores.</p>

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<p>Did he specify any of these UC/CSU schools when he took the SAT? If so, CollegeBoard will send the scores to the colleges (or already have). If he didn't specify the schools to send the scores to, he'll need to have CollegeBoard send them. Did he take the ACT and if so, did he report the correct score on that?</p>

<p>So, the Universities will find out the real scores. It doesn't make any sense that he would have falsified them but I know you're dealing with that now. Perhaps he needs to inform the Universities he's interested in that he 'made a mistake' when he filled out the application and would like to correct it. I think this should be done asap. I hope the real scores aren't too far off.</p>

<p>If for some reason he were to be accepted and the schools find out later that he lied (or made a major mistake in this area) on the app, he's liable to be kicked out which would not serve him well and could cost you/him a lot of money. The time to come clean and try to correct it is now. It's also time to check out some colleges he hasn't applied to yet with the incorrect scores.</p>

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<p>Thanks Berurah, I really appreciate all of your sympathy. He sent his scores through CSUmentor and through the UC application website. I really agree with you about how it is part of the learning curve. It is just unfortunate that he has worked hard these past 4 years and they may now be a waste for one stupid mistake. </p>

<p>Thanks Northstarmom too, I was very angry at him. Its been a while since I have talked to him. Its about time for that talk...</p>

<p>Thanks alot you two</p>

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<p>UCSD dad, he didnt specify the school when he took the SAT so I believe eventually Collegeboard will send them. He hasnt taken the ACT. I am looking at signing him up for that right now and I will have him write a letter to the schools he falsified information. </p>

<p>Thankyou</p>

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<p>

I would concur with this. With some new schools added, your son would have a clean slate, so to speak. Also, I agree that the time to correct this is now, with the correction coming from your son before the schools detect it themselves when his official score reports arrive. </p>

<p>I actually think it's good that you waited to talk to your son until the major anger has subsided. Sometimes we say things in anger that are hard to retract later. I think the <em>most</em> important thing right now is that your son knows that you believe in him--not only his academic abilities, but also his character since this event seems to be an anomaly.</p>

<p>And as NSM says, make sure he knows you love him for who he IS, no matter what he does. I have six very different children with vastly different talents/ability levels, and I really try to make each and every one realize how precious and important they are just for being themselves.</p>

<p>Best of luck, sweetie, and please keep us posted.</p>

<p>~berurah
p.s. One more thing...I <em>really</em> don't think that all of your son's hard work will be a waste for this one lapse in judgment. I know this seems very dire right now, but I think things will work out fine in the end. Try to stay calm, o.k.?</p>

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<p>Dentalmom, obviously your son felt awful about this or he wouldn't have confessed to you at all. I agree, he felt the stress of the college application process and responded, though not in the best judgement, to the stress. Just a question: what was his response to the best way to rectify this? It would certainly be best if he was the one to come up with the idea to contact the schools and tell them of his error. Does he plan to apply to any other schools? If he is done with all of his applications, then he may wish to also tell his guidance (college) counselor at school about this in case they are called by the admissions officers asking questions.</p>

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<p>Fortunately, he did not lie to all of the school he applied to. Just all of his "reach schools" ...UCSD, UCLA, and CAL POLY SLO. His other options that we are looking into are Chapman University, USC, and SDSU. Although he did feel very bad and we have forced alot of pressure on him, his is actions are unacceptable.</p>

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<p>Since he didn't lie on all the applications, I'd guess he didn't want to go to his reach schools. Fair enough. That is one passive aggressive way to destroy your chances.</p>

<p>He should withdraw those applicaitons. No amount of explanation will make that dishonesty go away. He should not risk the schools notifying one another--even offhandedly.</p>

<p>Is your son normally a very open communicator? IF not, I'd say he needs some cognitive therapy to learn more appropriate methods of expressing his fears and anxieties. The transition between high school and college is the time that mental illnesses often arise. This incident should be viewed with care. His overall mental health is what's at stake. He can always go to those reach schools for grad school.</p>

<p>Cyber hugs to you, mom. It's not easy keeping those boys on the rails is it?</p>

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<p>Cheers, I disagree. What precisely does he have to lose by contacting them to tell them he made a mistake? The worst they could do is reject him, which is the same outcome as withdrawing.</p>

<p>Plus, I think the very action of having to fess up to the schools is an important exercise in becoming an adult. If he simply withdraws, the lesson is that when he has done something wrong, the best thing to do is to run and cover. While we all want to make things easier for our kids, some things need to be learned the hard way.</p>

<p>DentalMom - What is his relationship with his guidance counselor? He/she may be able to counsel him on how to approach this with the schools and even do a follow up call to try and smooth things over. Don't beat yourself up too much - kids and adults make mistakes, and this isn't one that will ruin his life. Those are the best lessons to learn the hard way.</p>

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<p>Dentalmom - first of all, your son needs to have College Board send the scores to all the schools he has applied to. Neither the UC's nor CSU's will accept the self-reported scores or scores noted on a transcript -- they need the official score from the College Board. </p>

<p>Secondly, for the UC system, your son needs to have taken two SAT subject tests as well as ACTs. I am raising this because you didn't mention this, and your other comments tell me that you are unfamiliar with the procedure for applying to the UC's & reporting test scores. There is nothing wrong with that, but for purposes of the UC's, it is more important for your son to complete those tests (if he hasn't done so) than the ACT; it is probably too late to sign up for the ACT this year in any case. </p>

<p>You need to ask your son whether he reported his coursework and grades accurately. There actually are not likely to be any ramifications from the misreporting of the SAT scores, because the colleges don't use the application form as their source of data -- that is, with all the thousands of applications they handle, they may never notice the discrepency. However, if your son mispresents grades or coursework on the UC application, he could be accepted into the system in April and then have his acceptance revoked in July after the college receives the final transcript.</p>

<p>Please try to familiarize yourself with the UC application process detailed on the Pathways web site, as well as UC criteria for eligibility - including required GPA and A-G courses. Also, do not take advice from anyone on this board that is NOT specific to to the UC/CSU system -- some of the comments and advice already posted here is way off base, simply because the UC application process is NOT like the process of applying to most other colleges. </p>

<p>Do you know what scores your son claimed? I think that the significance of the lie in terms of what he needs to do next really depends a lot on the nature of the misrepresentation. Kids do make honest mistakes in filling out the form in any case, so the university is not going to assume that every mistake was wilful and deliberate -- given the extent of self-reporting required on grades, I'll bet it's pretty common for students to make small errors. That doesn't make it right for your son to lie, but my point is that in terms of practical effect, you could be making a mountain out of a molehill, depending on the extent of your son's misrepresentations. </p>

<p>I would suggest that your son should call UC Pathways and ask if there is a way to correct a mistake on a submitted application. (He doesn't have to disclose the nature of the "mistake" in asking the question, because the person who answers the telephone isn't the one making decisions in any case -- he just needs to know what the procedure would be.) Same for the Cal Poly application. Once he knows the procedure for correcting mistakes, he can take the next step.</p>

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<p>DentalMom,</p>

<p>I can understand your consternation, and stepping back a bit, perhaps your son’s misjudgment – and it sounds as if that is what it is – is symptomatic of the kind of pressure that a lot of students experience with the college applications process. That he confessed to you tells you about his character, notwithstanding that he did err in judgment. I’d recommend the maximum of 50 lashes a day for the next 3 days, reduced portions on his bread and water for a week, and then move on assuming he’s repented (if not, lock him in the dungeon and further reduce bread/water until he comes around).</p>

<p>Conceivably, with both UC and the CSU’s, there may be the possibility of making the corrections on the online applications that will reflect consistency with the scores that will be sent directly by the College Board (for the SAT’s) and the ACT. Be sure that each college/school will be a recipient of the official scores sent by the respective testing agencies. I know that the UC system (and likely the CSU’s) will allow either the SAT or ACT testing through December, so many students (thousands) will have updated official scores coming from either of the testing organizations. Further, your son’s test scores may appear on your son’s H.S. transcript (which he will need to request from his guidance counselor). There’s a good possibility that his fudging of the scores may not even be apparent to either the UC’s or the CSU’s when all is said and done in the applications process (but don’t tell him this – best that he suffers in guilt as long as possible). There is also enough confusion about test scores that UC and the CSU’s will ultimately rely on the official scores sent by the testing organizations.</p>

<p>On Monday, contact the UC Application Center and the CSU Mentor help desks, and ask when and if it is possible to make a correction on information provided in error, and not caught until recently. I’m not certain, but it may be possible to make “updates” to some information via the UC Application Status website – but possibly not until you have received your Application ID# from UC (via application receipt/confirmation via U.S. mail 3-4 weeks following app. filing). Ditto with CSU Mentor at their website. Good idea to know your Userid/Password. The help desks will be able to best advise you of your options, resolve your problems and/or allay your fears. As well, have your son check with his H.S. guidance counselor if you/he need further assistance.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>UC Application Center: (800) 523-2048 or (925) 808-2181 </p></li>
<li><p>CSU Mentor (XAP Corp.): (800) 468-6927 or (310) 842-9117</p></li>
</ul>

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<p>I don't know about the CSUs, but the UCs don't require a transcript to be sent until the end of the senior year. But lying about your transcript isn't a smart idea...our guidance counselors have said that acceptances have been yanked for major discrepancies--even as late as the summer before freshman year.</p>

<p>Not sure why anyone would lie about his or her SAT scores...that is one piece of the application info that most colleges get from an external source. It is a lie that would almost surely be caught! It's not like lying about ECs.</p>

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<p>It seems to me there are two different approaches here. Dentalmom speaks of having her son write a letter saying he falsified information. Other posters speak of having him correct an error. Dentalmom, you and your son have a choice to make. Does he correct the information through the online portals or does he say that he falsified information. That is completely and I stress completely up to you and your son. Obviously they may have different consequences.</p>

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<p>I take a middle ground, in that you simply send a letter giving the correct scores,adding that the official info will be coming from College Boaard without any other commentary as to whether the the original info was a mistake or falsification. I do not see this as a an opportunity to pay penance as colleges are swamped with apps and issues this time of the year, and it is unlikely that a system as large as UC is going to be able to stop its gears and discuss the situation with the young man. It'll be ditch the app and move on, or correct the info and move on. </p>

<p>I would have a minister, counselor, trusted family member, someone discuss this situation, and more importantly, your son's state of mind. That this is stressing him to a point of having him doing something like this that does not seem to be his usual modus operandum, is a flag that thing may be brewing in him that may be wise to address and discuss. After all, if he goes away to school, this is the last long stretch of time you will have with him, unless he take a deliberate break from his journey. This is the age when mood disorders, hormone flares, etc start erupting along with more psychotic issues and it is advisable to keep an eye on these things. If this was just a one time, not thinking, spontaneous things, that is all good and well, but if it is a sign... well, you are fortunate that it happened now. Also I have found that one roach or mouse often means that there are more in hiding. Your son might have some other things in the closet that need addressing before they start to fester. </p>

<p>Don't know about the California schools, but there are schools that do not put the SATs on transcripts--ours does not. Also there are some colleges that do not verify the SATs, believe it or not. And if a kid take many of them, often there are errors in reporting, and errors in substantiating. But I still think it was a very unthinking decision to put the wrong numbers down, as it is the one piece of info that college most often get direct from the source, usually right off the computer in batches.</p>

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<p>Solid advice from the cpt. Some CA schools put the SAT on transcript, some do not. The UCs will definitely verify the SAT scores with the college board.</p>

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<p>It has been a few yrs, so I might be confused with another school where son applied. I thought that you could access your info and check that everything was accurate on UC pathways (not sure of the name). Try calling, I know son had to call once-it took awhile but he got a real person.</p>

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<p>To reiterate: high school transcripts are NOT submitted to the UCs until the final transcript, AFTER admission. So it doesn't matter what is on the transcript -- the UC's will never see it. Up until that time everything is self-reported -- EXCEPT for the SAT or ACT scores, which do need to be transmitted through official channels from the respective testing agency to each college where the student has applied. </p>

<p>I think the mom should explore it further to find out why the kid did it. For example, if the kid's accurately reported grades and test scores are too low to qualify for the UC's, then there would not be much point in applying. It is possible that the kid knows something that parent doesn't, and simply didn't know what to do -- submit an application that is sure to be rejected? or fudge on the facts and hope to get away with it? </p>

<p>On the other hand, it is also possible that the kid is panicking needlessly. If he has spent time on cc, he may erroneously believe that he needs scores over 700 in order to get into the UC's, when scores in the 500-range will do. </p>

<p>I think the mom should ask the son to print out a copy of his online application for her, and she should go over it herself to determine what, if any, misreported information is there -- and then help her son draw up a list of items that need to be fixed.</p>

<p>I checked, and there is a way to go online to correct information, but the student will have to wait several weeks to do that.
[quote]
Can I make changes to my application after I submit it?
You may make changes online to some of your personal/background information about four to five weeks after you submit your application by using the Application Status website. For more information, see the APPLICATION STATUS section below. If you do not have access to the Internet at the time you wish to make these changes, you may submit changes to your personal/background information in writing to:</p>

<p>University of California
Undergraduate Application Processing Service
P.O. Box 4010
Concord, CA 94524-4010.</p>

<p>If your academic information changes (this includes courses, grades, attendance at another school, or attendance at the same school for an additional term), submit the changes in writing to the Admissions Office of each campus to which you applied.

[/quote]
<a href="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/apply/apply_online.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/apply/apply_online.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The UC application status web site - <a href="https://www.ucapplication.net/ucap/%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.ucapplication.net/ucap/&lt;/a> - does appear to have an option to "Review your Test Scores" (and presumably correct them). So my guess is that if the kid logged in a the end of December and fixed the test score data, no one would be the wiser; I am sure that other kids do this simply to report good results from November or December test administrations. </p>

<p>I do think that the mom should follow up with this to make sure it gets done properly. In general, I am not the helicopter type and think that kids should be allowed to own the process of applying, but in this case the kid has come to the mom for help and I think that at some level he would appreciate knowing that his mom is looking over his shoulder until the time everything has been put right.</p>

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<p>I suggest that you withdraw the applications with the falsified scores ASAP. No explanation is necessary. Your son did confess to you, but the behavior is still deeply troubling, and could indicate that there are deep psychological problems.
If you love your son, get him the help that he needs.</p>