Ethnic...Embellishments

[mytosies]

I’m so sorry, I feel like I post here too much, but I have another question for the good community of collegeconfidential

I have a friend, applying to Yale, who has informed me that he’s going to check Hispanic on his CommonApp, because “with that plus the double legacy, my gpa and scores won’t matter as much.” This is probably true: he’s just under the 25th percentile for the majority of his grades: 2100 range SAT, 93/4 GPA, a decent number of APs but no where near the most in our school. ANYWAY, the thing is … he’s not ethnically hispanic. He’s 25% racially hispanic, yes-his grandmother was an immigrant from spain, but, ethnically, he has not retained a shred of Spanish culture, save the spanish he’s learnt in high school, and he’s very open that he’s just doing it to “help his chances”

This bothers me both morally, and on a personal level, because competition in our school is fierce and, by capitalizing on this, he may be taking a spot away from one of us other applicants. Now, let me make this clear: were he to be accepted sans the hispanic label, I would be incredibly proud of and happy for him, but the fact that he’s blatantly manipulating the system rubs me the wrong way. I don’t want to be the “bad guy,” though, so maybe the only thing for me to do is sit back and hope he realizes that what he’s doing is wrong. I don’t know. If any of you have any advice for how to approach this situation, I’d appreciate it thanks

[aunt_bea]

It will come back to bite him.
Karma

[gibby]

If you look through the Yale Class of 2019 Decision Threads, you’ll see that URM tests scores are just about the same as non-URM test scores. So, there is very little bump from being a URM.

Yale Class of 2019 SCEA Decision Thread
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/1713050-yale-class-of-2019-scea-decisions-p1.html

#3 - Male, African American (Questbridge), deferred with SAT 1940 and ACT 35

15 - Male, Hispanic, deferred with SAT 2400

17 - Male, Hispanic, deferred with ACT 33

18 - Male, African American, accepted with SAT 2230

33 - Female, Cuban, accepted with SAT 2270 and ACT 33

34 - Male, African American, rejected with SAT 2030

35 - Female, Hispanic, deferred with SAT 1980

46 - Female, Mexican, accepted with SAT 2170

Yale Class of 2019 RD Decision Thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/1752938-yale-university-class-of-2019-rd-results.html

#9 - Male, Hispanic, rejected with SAT 2170

11 - Female, African American, rejected with SAT 2100

14 - Female, Latina, waitlisted with SAT 2200

20 - Male, Hispanic, rejected with SAT 2300

22 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2240 composite and ACT 35

23. Female, Hispanic, accepted with SAT 1910 (ranked 8th in her class of 465 students with an UW 3.9 GPA)

It’s the same thing over at Harvard

Harvard Class of 2019 SCEA Decision Thread http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1714730-official-harvard-university-2019-scea-decisions-only-p1.html

#11 - Female, Black, deferred with ACT 29

21 - Male, Hispanic, accepted with SAT of 2220 and ACT 35

29 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2240

30 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2130

39 - Male, African American, deferred with SAT 2230

40 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2400

44 - Female, African American, sibling, accepted with SAT 2140

47 - Male, African American, deferred with SAT 2010 and ACT 25

57 - Male, Hispanic, deferred with SAT 2220 and ACT 32

62 - Male, Black, accepted with ACT 32

63 - No gender listed, African American, accepted with ACT 32

Harvard Class of 2019 RD Decision Thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1752941-harvard-university-class-of-2019-rd-results-p1.html

#1 - Male, Hispanic, accepted with SAT 2300

3 - Male, Hispanic, accepted with ACT 33

6 - Male, Hispanic, waitlisted with ACT 35

7 - Male, Hispanic, rejected with SAT 2340

10 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2100

21 - Male, Hispanic,accepted with ACT 31

33 - Female, African American, accepted with SAT 2380

Based upon the College Confidential data from last year, here’s my take no the situation: Let your friend claim whatever ethnicity they want, as there are plenty of other top-scoring URM’s that will give them a run for their money.

[IxnayBob]

Fwiw, I believe that he meets the College Board definition of Hispanic. Blatant manipulation? Maybe.

I was surprised to discover that not only do my children meet the definition, but so will my potential grandchildren (unless the silly rules change). They never checked Hispanic on applications, not out of any sense of moral purity, but because they had no idea. One could argue that not checking the box misreports the data.

After DS and I had a good laugh about this, we also discussed how my being born in South America, emigrating, and learning English at school, did have a great effect on my life, albeit many years ago. I had to contend with some discrimination that no child deserves. It affected me, and it left some tender spots, but it’s unclear whether that affected my children in any way that should give them a leg up, and surely any effect on my grandchildren would be unlikely.

Don’t let him get to you. Worry about your application, not the application of your neighbor. Good luck.

[skieurope]

the thing is … he’s not ethnically hispanic.

The thing is, he is ethnically Hispanic. That said, I’m not sure that I, or anybody outside of Yale admissions, have any clue how much of a hook being a white Hispanic will be for Yale. But in the end, his application is not your concern; focus on your own application. Good luck.

[mytosies]

Thank you, all. I know, worry about my own app. It just confuses me, and stresses me out more. And @skieurope and @IxnayBob I’m sorry, I may have misspoken; as I always learnt it, race is simply a matter of bloodline, while ethnicity is more of the culture you maintain. An example from my AP World teacher was “My adopted korean daughter will always be racially korean, and she will never be racially latin american. Raised, however, with our bilinguality and our ethnic traditions has made her ethnically hispanic despite her racial roots.” I’ve always assumed that ethnicity didn’t simply require blood. I’m incredibly sorry if I made a mistake on those terms, and even moreso if that mistake may have offended anyone! I just always assumed that there was a distinct difference between being 25% spanish (or german, or kenyan, or malasian, etc.) with none of the culture and ethically part of the culture. Again, thank you everyone, and I’m sorry for any linguistic and social errors I may have made!

[IxnayBob]

@mytosies, for my part, definitely no offense taken.

[GMTplus7]

He’s 25% racially hispanic, yes-his grandmother was an immigrant from spain, but, ethnically, he has not retained a shred of Spanish culture, save the spanish he’s learnt in high school

So what???

Is a 1/4 asian kid who only speaks english, or a 1/4 black kid who hates rap music, not part asian or not part black?

[ElMimino]

The questions of race or ethnicity need to be answered in context. In the context of the college application, the answer is clear, in a social , religious, or political context, the correct answer can genuinely be different.

My race and ethnicity are clear… I’m a white, Anglo guy. My wife is clearly a white, Hispanic gal.
Our son, in the context of normal everyday life in the US would be correctly described as Anglo.
When he visits his cousins, and family in Colombia, he’s Latino.

As Sun Tzu says… “Don’t confuse the map with the territory”

If the question is well defined, and it is, a correct answer is easy.
I think the essence of the conflict is that we feel that the question is being asked poorly.

[classicalmama]

I agree with @GMTplus7 . If I’m reading your teacher’s words correctly, I think she means to be inclusive, not exclusive: her adopted child is BOTH racially Korean and ethnically Latin American–and both have value. While that cultural mix is likely to be more interesting to an admissions office (in a well written essay) than your friend’s Spanish roots, he is, in fact, Hispanic, and there’s nothing wrong with checking off that box. Many kids get more interested in their roots in college–so who’s to say that his ethnicity won’t play a role at his future school at some point?

Criticizing the purity of someone else’s ethnicity seems like a landmine to me. There’s little that’s across-the-board fair in the world of college admissions, but unexpected gifts are often given to those who focus on presenting their own unique, shiny selves to the AOs of a variety of colleges that seem to fit them well–the APs, great test scores, ethnic background are all just pieces that make you part of the pool.

[mytosies]

@GMTplus7 no, no, as I explained in a previous comment, I had always understood it as retaining the culture to some degree; I didn’t mean it in any stereotypical form, I just meant that he had made it clear that he had never identified as hispanic but realized he could use it to his advantage and so suddenly, according to what I had believed the definition of ethnicity to be, he had “developed” a new ethnicity, for lack of a better way of putting it. If he had always identified as hispanic, the percentage wouldn’t matter, and maybe, as I said, I may’ve misunderstood ethnicity, but I don’t mean to say that not fitting stereotypes or being only partially descendant from a race diminishes your place in that culture; it was a comment in the reflection of the fact that he blatantly said he was only using it for college, and in that I misunderstood, or at the very least had a different view from collegeboard, on what “ethnicity” is.

@ElMimino I really appreciate your answer As I said, I’m really sorry if I offended anyone; I misunderstood, and I realize that others don’t have the context wherin he flat out said “I just realized I could use this on my college app” or something along those lines. Again, I appreciate your detailed answer and offer my apologies for any slight you may have perceived; none at all was intended. I think your final statement is very accurate

@classicalmama Maybe I didn’t make it clear; I understood that they were inclusive I misunderstood the definition, however, it seems, and as I’ve said the visceral reaction was maybe not to him checking the box, but to him stating that “Oh, I just realized my grandmum was spanish so I guess I’m hispanic. Thank god, that’ll help with college.” Please don’t think I was at any point criticizing ethnic purity; it was his additional comment that “oh this will help me with college” that made me see it as more than just a further discovery of his own history. I honestly don’t mean to criticizes anyone’s ethnic identity: my original statement was borne of disappointment at what I had mistakenly perceived as manipulation and possibly lying. I also, as I said, hadn’t properly understood the definition of ethnicity, so truly did believe that what he was doing was lying, and I’m honestly quite glad that I said this, if only because I learnt something new from this Please don’t get the impression that all I do is run around sticking my nose in other’s business, and don’t take any offense from my uneducated comment. In the context of the former, it wouldn’t have even blipped my radar had I not thought it was a lie he was sending to colleges (I spend more than enough time worrying about myself , and the latter was a lack of understanding and, as I said, I appreciate everyone who has kindly helped me understand my misperception.

Thank you, guys. Again, I’m so sorry if I offended anyone; I was wrong in my understanding of the concept, and I recognize that, and I’m really sorry.

[GMTplus7]

I just meant that he had made it clear that he had never identified as hispanic but realized he could use it to his advantage and so suddenly, according to what I had believed the definition of ethnicity to be, he had “developed” a new ethnicity

You appear to be the one who’s hung up on stereotypes. The “hispanic” kid didn’t suddenly “develop” a new ethnicity, because BY DEFINITION, he ALWAYS has been that ethnicity.

[rhandco]

Ethnicity wins. My nephews are 50% Hispanic, know no Spanish that they didn’t learn up to grade 6 in public school, never took Spanish in MS or HS. They have a complete right to list Hispanic on their college applications.

Note that if YOU have an opportunity to get a step ahead, YOU take it. He is doing that. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

If all was fair, there would be no race or ethnicity on college applications, and only socioeconomic factors would matter - single parent home, poverty, HS poorly ranked.

But all is not fair, and colleges go for diversity in race and ethnicity so they can be less diverse.

[mytosies]

@GMTplus7 no no, that’s why i said “according to what I had believed the definition of ethnicity to be.” I completely recognize that I made a mistake! The way I had understood it, he HAD developed a new one, but now I see I was totally in the wrong. I’m so sorry, and I understand now where my mistake was. I didn’t mean to be hung up on stereotypes; I had just had a total misunderstanding of the definition Again, I’m really sorry

@rhandco I understand now, and I don’t mean to take ANYTHING away from you or your family; I had the wrong definition of ethnicity, and I understand that now, and, again, I’m really sorry. My original (incorrect) perception had been that he was lying, but I understand where I went wrong now, and, again, I offer my apologies for any harm I may have caused with my ignorance :-/

[pittsburghscribe]

@GMTplus7 give the kid a break. He has said, repeatedly, that he didn’t understood how the term ethnicity worked in the college application process. He has also, repeatedly, apologized for any offense that misunderstanding may have caused. The OP is not hung up on stereotypes. He’s worried about college applications and his classmate was boasting about his newfound rung up and it caused him to question whether that was gaming the system. I think he now understands that his classmate wasn’t “cheating” in the admissions process.

[ElMimino]

My wife speaks only Spanish to our son, and he responds in kind. I speak English, and he responds to me likewise. Having never studied Spanish, or taken a test in Spanish, we wondered if we did the right thing.
At least until he scored 800 in the SAT II test on Spanish.

Many of our family friends who have moved to the US don’t teach their mother tongue to their kids. I can understand how it would be a surprise to learn that you are categorized by some agency as an ethnicity that is not part of your everyday life!

[GMTplus7]

@OP. My bad. I didn’t read all the posts in between.

[mytosies]

@pittsburghscribe thank you @GMTplus7 It’s totally okay; I now understand where you were coming from and you were right to be upset with me. Again, I’m sorry, and thank you for understanding that I just screwed up and I really didn’t mean any offense

@ElMimino No, of course I understand the origin of his surprise now that I understand the true definition of the term; I seem to have simply come to the realization much later than he did. And, as for the language thing, I understand that, too. I’m the child of two immigrants, but they never taught me their mother tongue, Russian, as they felt it wasn’t necessary and may not help me integrate into the US. Your household also reminds me of one of my closest friend’s, but with the roles reversed: father speaks only spanish to them, mother speaks english. Given that was enough to rub off quite significantly on me (by standard testing standards, at least), of course your son found success But, all of this is irrelevant. Mostly I’d just like to thank you for helping educate me on this matter, and I can’t offer enough apologies for any harm I may have caused with my ignorance. Thank you