Evergreen, Western Washington

Parents Forum
1

<p>Can anyone tell me anything about these schools? My son has narrowed his choices to these, along with a couple of others, but would like to learn more about them. Both sound really cool in the areas that he is interested in. </p>

<p>Both offer interdisciplinary approaches: Evergreen is totally interdisciplinary, and WW has that approach at Fairhaven. Can anyone tell me anything about how this unconventional type of study worked for them?</p>

<p>There are pros and cons to both large schools and small schools. Can anyone tell me anything about the 'school culture?' Supposedly there is a 'myth' that Evergreen is a lot of interesting, smart potheads who think outside the box. My son is interesting, smart, and thinks outside the box, but he's not a pothead. In fact he is straightedge. Being such a small school (it was either 2000 or 4000, I think), will there likely be enough people who aren't into getting wasted, for him to have a social circle? Or is it pretty much a given that everyone is a 'hippie pothead' type.</p>

<p>Evergeen has been very friendly and forthcoming with their info. Their brochure alone was enough to make my son want to go there. WW, otoh, just sent an app but not much else. Andone know anything about...anything at all about WW? housing options? how much partying? social/political climate? social activities? how rigorous is the workload...just anything at all would be helpful. Oh, and of course if anyone knows anything about Fairhaven...</p>

<p>He seems to want to go to Washington. He plans to visit both, especially since they are only a couple hours' drive apart.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Evergreen's rep locally is that it is the preferred school of dope-smoking 21st century hippies. It's a good place for granola-munching fans of "progressive" politics. Fair or not, that's the rep. Western has a lot more respect as a mainstream university. (I have no personal opinion about or evidence of the culture at Evergreen. This is pure hearsay. The Western grads I've know all studied science there.)</p>

<p>I would say that if your son is a rules-oriented kid, or in any way sympathetic to Republican politics, the military, religious faith (especially Christianity), or is hostile towards recreational pharmaceuticals, Evergreen is likely to be a challenging environment.</p>

3

<p>"I would say that if your son is a rules-oriented kid, or in any way sympathetic to Republican politics, the military, religious faith (especially Christianity), or is hostile towards recreational pharmaceuticals, Evergreen is likely to be a challenging environment."</p>

<p>Are you saying there are very few Christians at Evergreen? </p>

<p>No problem there. He's spiritually eclectic and does not follow any dogma.</p>

<p>And no rules? As in, very laid-back atmosphere? I heard that gifted kids who 'think outside the box' do well at Evergreen. That describes my son perfectly. He's also interested in Computational Linguistics, and I read on the other Evergreen thread (that I started a couple of months ago) that one of the top profs in that field recently retired from Evergreen, so chances are they still have a strong program.</p>

<p>He's totally liberal, progressive, and a conscientious objector, so would fit in, in every way EXCEPT the pot-smoking. He has a total disdain for drugs and alcohol (thankfully). That is my main concern: it's such a perfect fit except for the pot. I'm not really too concerned about him caving in to peer pressure; he is very strong in his convictions against drugs/drinking - but I'd like him to have some like-minded friends who can party without getting wasted. He will face this to some degree in any school, since the majority usually drinks/gets high or some variation thereof...but I don't like the idea of him being in an environment in which it is the norm and considered 'cool' to be a pothead.</p>

4

<p>I think you could do fine at evergreen without drugs-
It was my daughters first choice for years ( we know several people who are grads- and who are very successful- including former member of a presidential cabinet, director of national environmental organization and regional think tank), we didn't get the impression that drug use was anymore of a part of the culture than at any other school.
The reason why she decided to put it as her 2nd choice, was because she decided she needed more external structure than we felt Evergreen provided</p>

5

<p>That's good to know. The book gave the impression they were all potheads, but maybe it's just that they tend to favor pot over alcohol, so maybe it's not that there's more pot, just less alcohol. (in which case, not a bad thing, since most schools have plenty of both.)</p>

<p>Since you mentioned it, I am concerned about the structure issue too. I understand they use evaluations instead of grades, which I like, but aren't the students still held accountable to get their work done? What do you mean by lack of structure?</p>

6

<p>We visited Evergreen last summer. Really interesting place. Our tour guide was a bit New Age-y, but we met several students who were just regular, nice intelligent, motivated young people who really valued the interdisciplinary way to learn. I was impressed by what we saw and heard.</p>

7

<p>you can't say graduate with a bio degree- where you will have taken chem, ochem, calc, micro,bio chem etc, unless you make sure that the courses that you are signed up for contain those subjects. You may certainly get those and more, but it seemed difficult to anticipate what was going to be offered in the future although some programs may be offered every year.</p>

<p>It also looks like single subject courses taught by one instructor are offered in the evenings, which would help students to fill out their schedule.</p>

<p>You are expected to be accountable- by participating in seminar & labs and by out of classwork, certainly- but D decided she liked knowing what classes were going to be offered and wanted to attend a school that had distribution requirements, not to mention a year long intensive hum course that all freshman took</p>

<p>We also looked at Fairhaven, but decided that if the interdisciplinary approach was one that she was interested in, Evergreen offered much more.
We liked Western, and it is in a beautiful setting and I think it has some excellent programs, but while we did visit ( along with a friend) for the accepted students day, by the time we did that, she already knew she had been accepted into her first choice college, so we mostly just enjoyed the day.</p>

8

<p>I doubt this will be very relevant, but one of my nieces is a senior at Western Washington. It is the fifth school she has attended (over 7 years), and the only one where she's stuck at all. She has liked it a lot, and feels challenged and engaged. She went there for the combination of location and dance program, though, and her current career goal is to be a yoga instructor / modern dancer, so your mileage may vary. Perfectly smart girl, but not intellectually driven at all (but I would say that she has been more engaged intellectually at WW than she was elsewhere).</p>

<p>She also looked at Evergreen, which in terms of "feel" was perfect for her (she IS a pot-smoking 21st century hippie), but the dance program at WW was much better.</p>

9

<p>*she went there for the combination of location and dance program, though, and her current career goal is to be a yoga instructor / modern dancer, so your mileage may vary. *</p>

<p>well the girl who was helping me at the Gap, had a degree from Evergreen in * Orissi* dance :D</p>

10

<p>I live in Olympia, know many of the faculty, and have hired many former Evergreen students over the years. </p>

<p>First of all, the drug thing. We live in a very liberal community, and the campus reflects that. (The local Democratic party, hardly the most liberal part of the community, went strongly for Kucinich in the 2004 caucuses.) And, on the west coast generally speaking, alcohol use rates are lower, and marijuana use rates higher than on campuses in the rest of the country. I think it is probably true that first-year marijuana use rates are relatively high at Evergreen. But I have data for the school as a whole, and they are LOWER than UW, for example, and for most of the prestige east coast LACs and Ivies. The reason for that is rather simple: the median student is significantly older. There is a large cohort of students coming back to school after leaving other institutions, and spending some time in the workforce. They have much lower alcohol and drug use rates. Furthermore, they tend to be much better directed in what they hope to get out of their college educations than the usual 18-22 year olds. They set much of the tone of the campus, and provide examples for many of the younger students, and make campus conversations and collaborations much better informed than you'd likely find elsewhere.</p>

<p>Faculty are really topnotch. It's a plum to teach at Evergreen, because it allows faculty to stretch out beyond their narrow range of expertise, which keeps the place academically alive in ways one might not find elsewhere. </p>

<p>Inner direction is obviously important at Evergreen, and it is one of the reasons students "never leave". Actually, they do, but it often takes longer. We live in a great town, with relatively low costs, and so there is no particular rush for many students to go anywhere. Many students in the arts become heavily involved in the town's artistic and musical communites - some join our local opera company, some play in the two local orchestras, or act in the five playhouses, or work in the many local art studios. Public policy students find internships and opportunities in state government. Anthropologists do projects with local Native tribes (my d. spent a year working on an ethno-botanical demonstration project on the Skokomish Reservation.)</p>

<p>Evergreen isn't for everyone. You need to come visit.</p>

<p>Look me up!</p>

<p>"well the girl who was helping me at the Gap, had a degree from Evergreen in Orissi dance"</p>

<p>Ratna Roy at Evergreen leads the best Orissi Dance program in the country.</p>

11

<p>Yes, but I think it's correct that WW has a much broader and deeper dance program, with over a dozen faculty in the department (and a picture of my niece on the program's home web page).</p>

12

<p>Agreed. (WWU also has some fine pre-professional programs, including accounting. Bellingham is a nice place, too. And a pretty successful and innovative program dealing with alcohol abuse.)</p>

13

<p>My S considered Evergreen, he liked it much more than many other LAC's that were much more expensive. A friend's son chose it and loves it there. This is his second year. He is not a hippy. After visiting both upon acceptance, another friend's daughter put WW higher on her list than Dartmouth (dad was a little upset), she ended up at Rice, liked the residential college system there. Both are beautiful campuses, both are great places to spend 4 years.</p>

14

<p>"We also looked at Fairhaven, but decided that if the interdisciplinary approach was one that she was interested in, Evergreen offered much more."</p>

<p>Can you explain what you mean by 'much more?' The interdisciplinary approach is the main feature that he likes; because he is very gifted but has an unusual learning style (very 'interest-led') yet does like recognition for his work, I thought this approach might work well for him. WW told me that they actually started the interdisciplinary approach with Fairhaven and Evergreen modeled it after them. But, Evergreen is ONLY interdisciplinary, whereas WW seems to offer the best of both.</p>

15

<p>mini: wow, very helpful! Nice to know someone who actually has experience with the town and the students.</p>

<p>Politically, it's a perfect fit. Another reason for its appeal; he wants to be in a politically active environment and he wants to do something to make a difference in the world.</p>

<p>I'm not so sure about academically. He's not pursuing any sort of art or music career. Is Evergreen strong in computer science? Do you know anything about their computational linguistics program?</p>

<p>same questions for WW, if anyone knows. I would assume that WW would be stronger in computer science.</p>

<p>But, while he is interested in computer science, he would do better in a program that integrates the math (calculus etc) with the curriculum, as he does better in math when he understands the applications than when it is taught as a stand-alone. His other main choice, UT Austin, is obviously highly rated, but there the math would be separate. This is a major appeal of the interdisciplinary approach.</p>

<p>Thanks for the offer! I will pm you when the time draws near for our visit. We plan to visit both Evergreen & WW since they are so close together. My hubby has a former student who lives in Bellingham and he's told us a bit about it - seems like a really awesome town.</p>

<p>Speaking of which, I got the impression that the students at Evergreen are very outdoorsy. Hiking, water sports, etc. My son has never been the outdoorsy type but that may be because it is so hot here in Texas. What are the prevalent recreational activities at E? at WW?</p>

<hr>

<p>"He is not a hippy. After visiting both upon acceptance, another friend's daughter put WW higher on her list than Dartmouth (dad was a little upset), she ended up at Rice"</p>

<p>Is the 'non-hippie' friends with lots of the hippies? Did he have any trouble finding a social circle? My son is hippie-ish in some ways, except for the lack of pot. He's a vegetarian peace activist metalhead, but he's also a gamer geek techie. And, we are a bit like the parents in the Fokkers, so he's been raised with that New Agey background, so he'll fit in there too.</p>

<p>That's funny that the girl was looking at both Evergreen and Rice, and ended up at Rice. They seem totally opposite.</p>

16

<p>My wife is a Western Washington grad and really enjoyed the school. My sons had it on the list partly due to the Computer Science department up there. It is a very solid department with a good reputation. We toured the campus this summer and really liked it. The housing is great for students.</p>

<p>Western did not make the final list due to a limit number of majors inside the engineering department but both boys could see themselves on the campus and going there.</p>

17

<p>"I'm not so sure about academically. He's not pursuing any sort of art or music career. Is Evergreen strong in computer science? Do you know anything about their computational linguistics program?"</p>

<p>I don't think they actually have a "computational linguistics" program, only faculty (or former faculty) heavily involved in same. (Doesn't Judy Cushing teach it now? Your s. might want to be in touch with her about his interests.) I don't know how strong the computer science department is (I would imagine the better flagship universities have more offerings), but I can tell you that the last two data analysts we hired were both Evergreen grads, and they were competing with students from a range of backgrounds, including several Ivy grads (the most recent one was competing with a Princetonian and a Reedie). And the department is VERY large for such a small school (would put most of the prestige LACs to shame.)</p>

<p>"He's a vegetarian peace activist metalhead, but he's also a gamer geek techie."</p>

<p>Sounds like a 'Greener to me. There is a young woman in our Friends Meeting, had no idea what her career goals were, vegetarian peace activist (don't know about the metalhead part), who discovered her love of mathematics among the hippies at Evergreen, finished her degree, and has had her pick of environmental engineering Ph.D. programs (quantitative emphasis), finally turning down a full-ride at Berkeley for one at Ohio State. </p>

<p>(lots of former homeschoolers, too. My d. felt right at home for the time she was there, though, in her program, the average student was almost 25, and she was 15).</p>

18

<p>Oh wow, this is sounding better and better! So your daughter was homeschooled and went to Evergreen at 15???</p>

<p>There seems to be a strong resonance with Evergreen. He has gotten tons of college brochures in the mail, and only a few really stood out enough for him to get excited about. Evergreen was one of them. </p>

<p>It is I who am nudging him to consider WW, because it is larger and seems to have the interdisciplinary approach at Fairhaven in the midst of a large campus, so I though it might give him more options. </p>

<p>But, in the end it will be whichever he resonates with. I think they are both worth visiting, especially since they are so close to each other.</p>

<p>I am concerned about the high percentage of older students at Evergreen. That is a good thing academically, and he has always related to adults. (In fact, at age 17 he dated 2 girls who were 19 and both told him he was more mature than the 25-year-olds they normally dated.) But, the social scene is just as important as academics, and I'm wondering about the dating pool being so small...</p>

19

<p>You obviously think highly of Evergreen. What does your son think? If he likes it as much as you do, go ahead and have him apply. He doesn't have to decide for months...</p>

20

<p>I think highly of it because HE thinks highly of it. I want to provide as much info as I can, so he can make an informed decision. But I do believe in trusting what he resonates with, to a large degree. I do feel excited to have found a school that seems to be designed with him in mind!</p>

<p>Yes, he will apply. The app will be in the mail next week. He will apply to WW too, and visit both. I am just seeking any additional info I can find; I like to cross reference everything because you can learn a lot that way.</p>