<p>tdmbari, thx a lot</p>
<p>hey, not to take this thread of track or anything, but does anyone know about "accounting information systems"? It's an option under the accountancy program in my school. Is that a major worth pursuing, and what kind of work does it entail? How do people who major in this vs pure accounting's salaries compare?</p>
<p>First of all, thanks for the excellent thread Taxguy. </p>
<p>I am just curious, how important are extra-curriculars to the big 4?</p>
<p>The reason I am asking is because I am 29 and an independant student; in addition to taking a full course load, I also work 50-55 hours per week to put myself through school/pay bills. This leaves me with no free time to join the business and accounting clubs at my university. </p>
<p>I understand how ECs can help distinguish candidates during interviews, but am I going to be at a severe disadvantage since I am unable to take part in them due to having to work so much? Or will the fact that I have the determination and drive to put myself through college help make up for the lack of clubs/volunteer experience on my resume? (plus the fact that working so many hours while going to school should show that I can handle the brutal hours during busy season)</p>
<p>Dirk, I used to recruit for Touche Ross,which is the predecessor of Deloitte Touche today. I can't speak for all firms, but only for what we looked for at the time.</p>
<p>ECs are only important for applying to college in distinguishing applicants. For the major accounting firms that I knew about. GPA was KING, QUEEN and all the lords and ladies combined. Assuming your interview skills are decent, a high GPA will get you seriously considered a LOT more than a person with a lower GPA....period unless you have amazing ECs that can result in business for the firm. Examples of Amazing EC are: Your father is president of a fortune 500 company and can get the firm business. You are amazingly connected in bringing in business. I think you get the drift.</p>
<p>Generally clubs, spots participation,fraternity and sorority membership, ski club etc. are irrelvant. Maybe there will be some firms that care,but I know of no firm at the big 8 ( at the time) that cared about ECs.</p>
<p>Maybe some accounting partners can chime in on this for today's hires.</p>
<p>That is great news, thanks again. </p>
<p>My GPA is close to 4 so if that is still what recruiters look for most, then I should be in fairly good shape after I brush up on my interview skills.</p>
<p>Dirk, congrats on having close to a 4.0 in accounting. That is NO easy feat.</p>
<p>My GPA isn't that good because I slacked first year(I'm a sophomore). But last semester I had a 3.6. My overall is up to 3.2. I know I gotta get that up.</p>
<p>I understand you need 150 hours to get your CPA. Do most people just go to college for 5 years? Or get their masters??</p>
<p>Mrd, actually, some states only require 120 credits to sit for the CPA. However, even these states usually require the 150 credits before the CPA is awarded. Thus, if you are going to work for an accounting firm and try to get the extra 30 credits at the same time, it is going to be very tough for you to do considering all the hours and hard work required by accounting firms. You are usually better off finishing your 150 credit requirements before applying for a job. In addition, if you have your 150 credits finished, accounting firms know that you will become eligible to sit for the CPA. If you don't, it will take years before you even become eligible. I think your employment potential will go up enormously having the 150 credits under your belt when you apply to accounting firms. </p>
<p>I can't speak for what most people do. I know my son got his masters in an accounting related area: financial planning first before working for an accounting firm. My other son got a masters in accounting.. Some people just take an extra year in college. Frankly, I like the masters option since it gives you a superior credential to just a bachelors. Many colleges have five year bachelors/masters programs for accounting knowing that kids will need 150 credit hours for their CPA certificate.</p>
<p>Also, check with your state of preferance to see what extra 30 credits qualify. Some states may allow you to take almost any thirty credits. Some states may require a masters in a related area such as accounting, tax, forensics, financial planning etc. Some states may even accept an MBA. Check with your local state board of accountancy for the state that you wish to get admitted to, or meet with your local college advisor about this.</p>
<p>Remember , there may be a uniform exam for the CPA, but state requirements to sit for the exam do vary. You absolutely need to check with your college advisor and/or your State Board of Accountancy for the state that you want licensure.</p>
<p>Taxguy, </p>
<p>Your posts are very informative. Thanks!
May I ask a question regarding hiring/interview since you recruited for big firms?</p>
<p>My husband is a self-employed CPA and my daughter will major in accounting. We've known internship with big4 won't come until junior year. But thinking she can help out in dad's office in summer/breaks thru out college years to gain experience. Her goal is to land in big4 after graduate. However when the resume/interview comes, could working in her dad's office become a draw back? since this could protentially imply that she could join her dad's office anytime if she wants. Will big4 think she has a higher chance to leave the firm after a few years to partner with her dad that they just pass her? Is she better off to conceal her dad has a practice? Then that means she won't mention her experience, either.</p>
<p>a_mom,</p>
<p>Even though I am not the guy your hoping to talk to, here my take on your daughter's situation. It's great that your husband is a self-employed CPA. It's a great idea to for your own dad. She can learn valuable skills and experiences without any office politics. When, your daughter does become college junior, she can apply for internship and she may even have advantage over other students because she has an accounting experiences. </p>
<p>As for Big4, it is very unlikely for Big4 to negatively factor in her past experiences. Don't worry about your daughter working for your husband. Basically, your thinking too hard about this whole situation.</p>
<p>I completely agree with latestgood's post number 357. Having family who are CPAs and getting experience with her dad shouldn't be a problem. In fact, it may give her a "leg up." </p>
<p>With Interviews, GPA and intelligence was key. We also looked for personaable people who were willing to be adapaable, learn, and seemed to have decent people skills. Remember public accounting means dealing with the public.Usually several people met with the applicant and gave their feedback.</p>
<p>Please note that interviewers are human. Thus, what they look for vary. I can give you some illustrations from my son's recent experience with accounting firms.</p>
<p>Some were very "intelligence and GPA" oriented. A high GPA and seemingly high intelligence was what they wanted most. Some firms, especially the one my son is at now, wanted "fit." They wanted folks who seemed bright, had good training, had a decent GPA but who also had a very good , sociable personality. Frankly, audits are in teams and this partner wanted folks who would get along and who he wanted to work with.</p>
<p>Also, have your daughter read over her resume carefully, My son was asked about each and every job he noted. If your daughter worked in her dad's office, she should be prepared to explain exactly what she did each year.</p>
<p>latestgood & taxguy, thank you both for the valuable inputs!</p>
<p>So what happens if you take CPA and pass but you don't work in an accounting firm and don't work for anyone that has a CPA? Is it worth it just to pass the exam in case in the future you can get a CPA to sign your form and become a CPA?</p>
<p>Taxguy,</p>
<p>I'm also curious what made both your sons got into their accounting career. Did they choose that by themselves naturally and proactively? Or you intentionally guided them into accounting? </p>
<p>My daughter actually doesn't know what she wants to pursue for a career, so we kind of "brainwashed" her to become a CPA since we see a lot of oppotunity in this career and my husband loves his job although his first years were kind of tough. However, when telling others my daughter is goint to major in accounting, some mom challenged me with the question "how do you know you daughter like it?" Of course, we've promised my daughter that if she really doesn't like it, she can do whatever she REALLY like and that she can make a living on it.</p>
<p>So I just wonder what's case in both your sons since they seems happy about what they do.</p>
<p>Is the job market still good in accounting?</p>
<p>I have heard from another accountant that it is excellent. His sons didn't major in accounting and they don't have jobs. He told them that if they would have they wouldn't be unemployed at ages 24,25.</p>
<p>A_MOm asks,"Taxguy,</p>
<p>I'm also curious what made both your sons got into their accounting career. Did they choose that by themselves naturally and proactively? Or you intentionally guided them into accounting? "</p>
<p>Response: Actually, I didn't encourage them in the least! My older son majored in business administration was was going through an MBA program and found it was a rehash of his undergrad days. He switched to accounting on his own to our surprise.</p>
<p>My younger son started off in accounting from day one. He had a tough time of it around his sophomore year, and I encouraged him to switchto either finance or economics. He stuck it out and graduated with his degree in accounting and then got his masters and graduated with high distinction from his grad program. Go figure!</p>
<p>Although both I and my wife did NOT in any way encourage my kids to take any specific major, we both graduated with ""vocationally" oriented majors. I majored in accounting and my wife majored in Interior Design. Maybe our inclination towards vocationally oriented majors rather than pure liberal arts influenced our kids. Who knows?</p>
<p>I will say one thing though: both my sons are making more money than any of their friends are making at their first jobs. In fact, some of their friends are still looking for jobs where my kids got employed quickly after graduating from their masters programs. Accounting is a very in-demand major, and it can be used to enter a number of fields besides accounting. It is a very good,but surprisingly tough choice.</p>
<p>Taxguy, is the MBA program separate from the Masters in Accounting program at most schools? Or can you still get the accounting courses from an MBA program?</p>
<p>Also, do most accountants go right into a Masters program undergrad for their additional 30 credit hours? My understanding is that an MBA program wants a few years of work experience first, but I don't know how it is for Accounting Masters programs. Thanks for the help.</p>
<p>msl2008,</p>
<p>If your goal is to be a CPA, you have to pass the uniform CPA exam. My husband worked for various real estate brokage/managment firms, from small to big, before passing his CPA exam. After all that, he finally worked for a small CPA firm and got certified. That's probably the case you're asking.</p>
<p>Liquidus, I can't speak for "most accountants" since I don't know what they do. I would think that as a result of the 150 credit rule, many students do finish their 150 credits by either going an extra year through undergraduate studies, or, ( probably more popular) getting a masters degree in some related field to accounting.</p>
<p>As for the MBA, some want a few years of work experience, and some will take you right out of an undergrad program. Frankly, I don't see the need for an MBA is someone majors in accounting as an u ndergrad. Also, if they don't major in accounting as an undergrad, usually the MBA might NOT be the right route if they want a CPA. MBA requriements don't usually have enough of the right courses necessary to sit for the CPA exam.</p>