<p>Yes, I have said this before and will say it again, the Big 4 accounting firms are not for everyone. There are pros and cons to them:</p>
<p>Pros: They generally pay better than that of other firms,although they didn't give overtime when I was there. They also have a more sophisticated accounting practice since they deal with a number of public and large corporations. Finally, they have more prestige than that of any other type of accounting position especially if you were an auditor. Many accounting firms that hire senior accountants as auditors prefer big 4 experience..</p>
<p>Cons: That said, big 4 isn't for everyone. First, they pidgeon hole you a great deal at the beginning for the first couple of years. You don't get the varied experience initially that you would get with a mid to large local firm. Secondly, there is NO job security in any way with big firms. They truly don't care about their employees. The philosophy was ( when I was there) "up or out." This means that if they felt that you weren't going to make partner, they either encouraged you to leave or got rid of you. There was little attempt to keep any staff or to give any staff "warm fuzzies." Smaller firms can have more family oriented cultures and usually try to keep staff members happier. At least they seem to care more.</p>
<p>Big firms generally feel that they "own you" since they are paying you better than that of other firms; thus, they do tend to burn people out,which is why there is such as high turnover. Make no mistate: they do have a high turnover.</p>
<p>Thus, these firms believe that if you are willing to dedicate your life to the firm (even over having a family life), be very competant and be extremely loyal, you will get rewarded with partner status,which could mean 1,000,000 salary per year once you achieve this status. If you don't have this type of long term dedication, you will be asked to leave...period...</p>
<p>This isn't just applicable to accounting firms. Large law firms have this same mentality or even worse. I met a gal who worked for a large Texas firm who worked their lawyers 12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week each week. Even worse, they were going to have layoff when the staff voted to take a pay cut in order to avoid the layoffs. The partner's response was, "this is loser mentality." " If these staff members can't cut it with enough billable hours, they should be cut" Talk about "survival of the fitest."</p>
<p>I heard some lands in Big4 never intend to devote their career life there, they use Big4 as a stepstone for elite positions in other public/large corporation or other opportunities since the experences in Big4 and the connection you can make is still very valuable no matter what. That also contributes to the high turnover in Big4.</p>
<p>Yes, A_mom , some folks do get jobs at major corporations as a result of their big 4 contacts. It certainly can and does happen,but it isn't guaranteed.</p>
<p>Also, some firms will allow managers who work very hard and are very competant to stay on even if they are deemed to have "no partner potential." I have met a few folks recently about this. However, this is NOT the general rule.</p>
<p>If you look at salaries for the 2nd tier, regional and local firms, often times they pay higher for audit positions than the big 4, or they pay overtime. For example, Crowe Horwath is paying 56k in chicago, matching or beating the big 4. GT in Los Angeles is beating to of the big 4 by 1k. Rothstein Kass after overtime is paying up to 6k more in Los Angeles. Some National firms in Los Angeles are paying 3k more than the big 4. Many smalller firms offer market - which essentially means big 4 pay, and others are considerably lower.</p>
<p>The pay difference comes later on. your raises may be less and bonus smaller once you reach manager level - at this point pay at the big 4 will essentially outpace all the other firms. </p>
<p>Comp for partners usually starts - at least in the past - around 300k. Most that are making over 1mil are office managing partner, etc</p>
<p>It would be easier to make partner at a local or regional firm and comfortable make 200-400k without the litigation and risk exposure the big 4, GT, RSM and BDO face</p>
<p>taxguy, you said that the big 4 firms dont really care where you went for undergrad when they are hiring. You said that grades are the most important and if your school your accredited or not. However what about in terms of grad school...does it matter which grad school you go to for a masters in accounting? I'm thinking about majoring in econ for undergrad but most firms dont hire econ grads so I thought about maybe applying to a masters program for non-accounting majors. Also, the masters program would enable me to have enough credits for the CPA exam. How should I choose what grad school to apply for a masters in accounting program?</p>
<p>Coolkid if it doesn't matter for undergrad, it won't matter for grad school either. Again, your interview and GPA matter most as long as you have taken all of the required accounting courses necessary for you to sit for the CPA...</p>
<p>Just make sure that the program is accredited and the schools should be AACSB accredited too unless it has a very strong reputation, i.e. Wharton, Stern etc.</p>
<p>Take all the courses necessary for the CPA. Do very well in them, and you should be fine. I don't know, however, how much these firms will weigh your undergraduate GPA compared to your graduate GPA. Someone wiser than I can chirp in.</p>
<p>Hi
First of all thanks to those who help answer all these questions. You guys rock. </p>
<p>Now on to my question. I am at a CC and have the option of taking either an audit accounting course or a cost accounting course. Which would you recommend taking first, does it matter? The pre req for both is Intermediate accounting which i have taken. They are in the same time slot so i have to chose one or the other. Is one harder than the other? Is one more time consuming than the other? I ask because im taking cal II, comp sci, and a tax accounting course plus work so maybe time could play into the decision.</p>
<p>dmode22. actually you should take both! Information from both courses will be on the CPA. However, if you only could take one, I would take audit. Yes, audit is harder than cost in my opinion but can be a lot more important for jobs.</p>
<p>I know that almost everyone is effected by current recession but how are accounting jobs doing in comparison to other industries. Some people have been saying that the big four have been laying people off a lot but is it as bad as other industries where thousands and thousands of jobs are disappearing? What about regional firms? Yet at the same, I've heard that accountants are needed because companies need to make sure that they can cut costs and prevent unnecessary expenditure. Also, accounting is still in demand currently but the demand will eventually wane...can you still expect to get a job in the future?</p>
<p>I would think cost is more interesting, more difficult and more important. When you start at the firms, they will teach you everything you need to know about auditing...they however will not do that for cost/management accounting. It could be a great skill for you to have and can open up more options. Audit class has never been a requirement to become and auditor because they will teach you everything you need to know.</p>
<p>lol...its funny how I missed that even though it was on the same page. thanks taxguy. So unlike finance, accounting is considered pretty stable and secure in a normal economy right?</p>
<p>I posted this link in another thread, but thinking many here would be interested about the accounting majors survey results. This is from Cal Poly SLO (calif. state school) website. </p>
<p>Not sure if other colleges post such similar details (title/salary/empolyer). If you know others, please link.</p>
<p>I have a question regarding about a master in accounting. Should I get a master in accounting if I want a bigger paycheck or is a bachelor degree just fine?</p>
<p>What about private industry accounting careers? If you want to work for a private industry, does it pay to get a CPA? Or would a CMA be more appropriate? I have no intention of working for an accounting firm, but will the lack of a CPA hurt my chances of moving up within a private industry? Thanks</p>
<p>You generally don't need a CPA for corporate accounting jobs. It is only required if you work for a CPA firm. However, that said, having a CPA will usually prove very beneficial in the long fun since it is the most prestigious accounting designation an accountant can have.</p>