<p>Refer to Lets just call it…the TRAP…</p>
<p>“Lets just call it…the TRAP” seems like a thread created solely to boost the self-esteem of students who got rejected by top schools.</p>
<p>Look, the MIT name was EXTREMELY helpful to this guy; without the MIT name, he almost certainly wouldn’t have gotten such a great job offer. Of course ,he had to prove that he was as good as his degree is, but the fact is that his MIT desgree opened up a HUGE door.</p>
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<p>Sending a child to a prestigious high school for the sake of better career prospects is wishful thinking, but to suggest that high schools don’t have powerful alumni and career networks is foolish.</p>
<p>You must not know very much about the tragic disparity between public schools and private schools in the United States. This isn’t France.</p>
<p>I guarantee you that if he was wearing a sign that said “Oklahoma State Grad Needs Job” or whatever, he would have been approached by just about any native Oklahoman or OK State grad that happened by. </p>
<p>While obviously NYC isn’t home to large numbers of OSU grads, alums who find themselves in “outposts” far from home tend to look out for each other. The numbers may work against you, but the loyalty is definitely there, and in some cases may help as much as having the degree from a prestigious alma mater.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t tell a prospective I-Banker to choose OK State over MIT on this basis, of course…I’m just challenging the premise that his MIT sign helped him and an OK State sign would not have.</p>
<p>Old story. Surprised no one mentioned the denoument: Persky got a job. </p>
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His new boss, Elliot Ogulnick, said he was impressed by Persky’s r</p>
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<p>I definitely agree. This also tends to be the case for smaller schools. I know I’d offer an interview to a fellow alum who needed a job.</p>
<p>You ladies and gentlemen may find this book interesting</p>
<p>[The</a> Early Admissions Game: Joining … - Google Book Search](<a href=“The Early Admissions Game - Christopher. Avery, Andrew. Fairbanks, Richard J. Zeckhauser - Google Books”>The Early Admissions Game - Christopher. Avery, Andrew. Fairbanks, Richard J. Zeckhauser - Google Books)</p>
<p>There’s a bit in the preview somewhere where the author touches on several studies that have concluded, somewhat ambiguously, that people who go to top colleges really do tend to make more money and become more famous than those who don’t. </p>
<p>As for the cliched statement “You’re just as likely to become rich and famous having gone to Ohio State as having gone to Harvard.” I would say that’s a yes and no. The book says, and I honestly agree wholeheartedly, that it’s just as likely that people who are going to make ****-tons of money and who are going to become famous are naturally attracted to top colleges. Not to say that going to a top college is completely and totally useless, it obviously opens some doors and networks. And also there is something to be said for a small campus population when you want small class sizes. And finding a small public college that actually offers your major to more than like two people is nearly impossible.</p>
<p>Look, if you find studies saying that the people who go to top colleges do make more money and become more famous, you have to be careful not to say it is BECAUSE of their attendance at elite colleges that they became wealthy and famous. You can identify a correlation but, correlation does not equal causation. Many of the people that attend those top colleges are predisposed to becoming more successful than those who don’t attend and shoot for the best education they can get. If all the people who attended those top universities had to go to say an only “decent” college, they would find a way to become successful regardless. The people that apply to all the top colleges are a self-selecting applicant pool - you only have a minuscule number of non-motivated people with poor stats applying to these schools. Now, people’s attendance at those schools probably helps them if they have a truly great learning experience or if they enter a field (finance) where name-brand colleges do matter, but a personable, motivated person is not something that top colleges change everyone into.</p>
<p>Yea sure, I’d say the correlation is VERY strong, as evidenced by the fact that there ARE rich, famous people who went to XYZ State U. Which I would take as evidence against any parents that are pressuring their children to go to top colleges that they’re really not interested in. (And let’s face it, we’re being told by books like The Overachievers that there are parents who really want to force their kids into a top college, and that this is an epidemic of OVERACHEIVEMENT, even though other people tell us the problem in this country is the opposite.)</p>
<p>Your evidence is faulty.</p>
<p>First of all, the article is pointing out that it was his CREATIVITY, not his alma mater, that got him his job. He did something different than the thousands of other out-of-work Wall Streeters, many of them who have degrees from top schools, did. He put himself out there and showed that he had moxie and ambition, and that’s what employers like to see. The whole article was focused on how he became famous overnight for his methods and that was probably what helped him get a job.</p>
<p>Secondly, the article mentioned that he had been out of work for six months. I’m presuming that during those six months he had been looking for a job in the more traditional ways, and had not found one yet. This is evidence that it is not his alma mater that got him the job – he hadn’t changed anything about his resume from his job-seeking before, just his methods.</p>
<p>Thirdly, you ignored a big part of the sign – EXPERIENCED. After you have gotten some work experience, your alma mater matters less, and your experience on the job (and what jobs you have worked) matters more. A fresh-out-of-school MIT grad is most likely not going to get a management position over a Penn State grad with 3 years of experience on Wall Street.</p>
<p>Besides, the article never mentioned what degree he got at MIT – possibly he had a graduate degree from MIT. The biggest help, it seems, was the alumni network – he got calls from alumni willing to give him a job.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone says that a big-name degree doesn’t help in the job prospects (people wouldn’t be so keen to go if they thought that). I think most people are saying that it doesn’t help as much as a lot of top high school students think it does. It’s not the end of the world if you don’t go to an Ivy League equivalent, and most people get on with their lives and remain successful.</p>
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<p>Yeah, look at some of the richest people such as Bill Gates(Harvard drop out), both founders of Google(UofMichigan, UofMaryland), Warren Buffet(University of Nebraska), Carlos Slim Helú(Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México), etc…</p>
<p>The problem, I’m having with your thread is that a lot of young students still their whole life ahead of them to achieve things if they believe they can. However, at this age, some students are too gullible to know better and some actually might believe you.
In the real world, self esteem is 99% of what makes a person succesful and not where he/she gets his/her degree from. However, there are still some students on the internet boosting their self-esteem by putting other people’s school down which I think is very unfortunately.</p>
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<p>From the MIT alumni database:</p>
<p>*Joshua Persky:</p>
<h1>Degrees:</h1>
<pre><code>* 1981, SB - Bachelor Of Science, Course 15 - Management*
</code></pre>
<p>Basically, that means that he got his undergrad degree at the MIT Sloan School of Management.</p>
<p>Wait, you just listed two unequivocal top colleges. It takes a lot to get into Harvard and U. Michigan is considered a “public Ivy.” U. Maryland is also a good school and I can’t speak for the other two but it sounds like you just listed a few top colleges that rich, famous people have attended (regardless of graduation).</p>
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<p>Well, in those particular cases, I suspect they are either shooting too high, or have simply chosen not to develop marketable skills, or perhaps both. There are still plenty of decent jobs out there. Sure, many of them are not at the sexiest of employers, and maybe the job is far removed from whatever it is that you majored in and also far removed geographically from where you might want to live. But they’re still far better than no job at all. </p>
<p>Let me put it to you this way. I know a guy who runs an IT training company. He told me recently about 2 brothers who recently had trained themselves to become Cisco Certified Internetworking Experts (CCIE’s) in about 6 months, starting from knowing nothing at all. They just bought a few thousand dollars worth of used Cisco gear from Ebay and just trained and studied together day and night for those 6 months and passed the certification exams. These guys have never been to college. Yet now that they’re Cisco certified, they have been able to garner decent-paying jobs within IT departments at some local employers. Granted, they’re not very glamorous employers. But at least they’ve been given steady jobs. The brothers are now planning on earning even more certifications from Cisco, Oracle, and other major IT vendors and develop their practical knowledge in order to enhance their career prospects even further. </p>
<p>If those guys can do that, then surely somebody who graduated from Stanford or Cornell engineering can do the same. I mean, come on, these IT certifications are really not that hard to complete for somebody who is good enough to complete an engineering degree from a top school. They do take some time, but an 8 month window of unemployment is more than ample.</p>
<p>I think the real problem is that many people simply suffer from a lack of imagination. They just expect the jobs to come to them, or they expect their schools to provide all of the preparation that they need, and they aren’t willing to retool their own skills on their own time. You have to take a more entrepreneurial attitude towards your own career. If your current skillset is not providing you with the jobs that you want, then you need to determine what skills you do need and then aggressively explore opportunities to obtain those skills.</p>
<p>“First of all, the article is pointing out that it was his CREATIVITY, not his alma mater, that got him his job. He did something different than the thousands of other out-of-work Wall Streeters, many of them who have degrees from top schools, did. He put himself out there and showed that he had moxie and ambition, and that’s what employers like to see. The whole article was focused on how he became famous overnight for his methods and that was probably what helped him get a job.”</p>
<p>No. If the man was wearing a sign that read “North Dakota Community College Graduate needs work” or “George Mason grad seeking employment,” his plan wouldn’t have worked. Why? Becuase the MIT name is faaaaaaaaar more respected and attractive to employers.</p>
<p>Look, I’m not saying that a North Dakota Community College grad is necessarily smarter than an MIT grad, I am sure there are smart people and dumb people at each school. But that doesn’t change the facts.</p>
<p>“Secondly, the article mentioned that he had been out of work for six months. I’m presuming that during those six months he had been looking for a job in the more traditional ways, and had not found one yet. This is evidence that it is not his alma mater that got him the job – he hadn’t changed anything about his resume from his job-seeking before, just his methods.”</p>
<p>That’s wrong. The reason he got so much press coverage and was covered in
USA Today is because of the prestige of the MT name. The press thiyght it sounded like a cool story, an MIT grad looking for work with a sign. More press coverage= more exposure= more prospective job offers.</p>
<p>“Thirdly, you ignored a big part of the sign – EXPERIENCED. After you have gotten some work experience, your alma mater matters less, and your experience on the job (and what jobs you have worked) matters more. A fresh-out-of-school MIT grad is most likely not going to get a management position over a Penn State grad with 3 years of experience on Wall Street.”</p>
<p>This has nthing to do with Persky. Persky got more prosepctive job offers becuase of his prestigious college. Of course, experience is also important, but a diploma from a top school is extremely helpful.</p>
<p>" The biggest help, it seems, was the alumni network – he got calls from alumni willing to give him a job."</p>
<p>Yes, the MIT alumni network can be helpful.</p>
<p>"I don’t think anyone says that a big-name degree doesn’t help in the job prospects (people wouldn’t be so keen to go if they thought that). I think most people are saying that it doesn’t help as much as a lot of top high school students think it does. It’s not the end of the world if you don’t go to an Ivy League equivalent, and most people get on with their lives and remain successful. "</p>
<p>Of course. Notre Dame and Emory aren’t Ivy equivalents, but they’re top colleges. As long as you go to a top 20 or so college, you’ll be fine.</p>
<p>“As long as you go to a top 20 or so college, you’ll be fine.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but the people who decide colleges are top 20 are editors who need to sell copies of the US News. My list of Top 20 colleges would be far different than someone else’s. </p>
<p>As for illustrious alumni lists, everyone seems to forget that some of the most hated and ridiculed people graduated from “top” colleges. The Unabomber went to Harvard. Seriously. </p>
<p>[Harvard</a> and the Making of the Unabomber - 00.06](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/06/chase.htm]Harvard”>http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/06/chase.htm)</p>
<p>I do not care how much you guys talk about how a name helps you get some recognition. I’m sure it does. Fine. Going to a top school is not a cause and effect relationship, merely a correlation, and obviously, each side of the argument has extreme outliers (Warren Buffet went to Nebraska, Unabomber to Harvard), but maybe it is important to recognize that people become outliers by their own methods and personalities more than the name of the degree they hold. Plenty of intelligent people go to a 104 ranked school who have scores equivalent to an Ivy Leaguer simply because of cost, and they will probably make just as much money.</p>
<p>The real attraction to the Ivy League is this idea that somehow it will instantly catapult you into a field of immense wealth, but this isn’t the case. Surely, looking at the colleges of US Senators is enough to convince you that while some go to top schools, many go to “subpar” schools and do as well or better than their Ivy League counterparts.</p>
<p>Lol, im not trying to be controversial, but theendusputrid, your very ignorant…</p>
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<p>Yes, one is a Harvard drop out. In fact, if you read his biography, he did not want to go to Harvard. His parents made him go for at least one year. U Michigan is a public Ivy but it has rolling admission so if you apply early you tend to get in. U Maryland is a good college but I don’t remember it’s a tippy top school either. What is it US News rank?</p>
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<p>They did shoot very high. One got accepted and attended Stanford for a Phd(but he dropped out for a job). He received an undergrate from Cornell. He is pretty smart, very personal, and also likable. I can’t say the same for the other person. They are in their late 30s and have not even bought their first starter house yet because they are still paying for their student loans( all with the beliefs that the degree at a tippy top schools would be all they need).</p>
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<p>Then why is he out on a street holding up a sign. None of the TTT graduates that I know of has to do that. In fact, none of my TTT friend has been unemployed in the last 25-30+ years. So I guess the degree does not matter.</p>