Excellent new Crimson story about the HARVARD admissions process

<p>Thanks for the knowledgeable translations, everyone - I have had intriguing results when running phrases through translation sites!</p>

<p>Well, Byerly, there are an awful lot of bad spellers out there. I trust they're not French, though. I used to win prizes for dict</p>

<p>i dont understand why the OP had to capitalize HARVARD in the thread title. like, ok, it's harvard, you don't have to wet yourself.</p>

<p>jimbob1225: Major LOL!!</p>

<p>"chaconne" is a dance or the type of music associated with it. it's a play on words.</p>

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You left out a very obvious reason, i. e financial.

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<p>Well, I didn't want to list EVERY single reason, because there are so many. It was enough for me to note that there were many reasons.</p>

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Students from many upper middle class and middle class families opt to choose to go to a state flagship university on a full ride rather than incur 130K or so debt. This is especially true in California, Michigan and perhaps Virgina which have good state universities (Public Ivies if you will).

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<p>One reason why I didn't go down this road is that, for some people, the exactly opposite is true - that it is actually the PRIVATE school that is cheaper than their state school. That's because the private schools tend to be extremely aggressive with financial aid. I know 2 people who are from California and got into both Berkeley and Harvard, and found out that Harvard was actually CHEAPER for them, once financial aid was factored in. I will always remember one of them mordantly joking that he had always dreamed of going to Berkeley, but he couldn't afford it, so he had 'no choice' but to go to Harvard.</p>

<p>But in any case, the point is, the people who get into top private schools and turn them down for lesser schools do so for reasons. Nobody does this randomly. Hence, they are not comparable groups.</p>

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no, I'm saying she could get into a medical school that is top20/40. Maybe she can't get into hopkins. But its not like the BS/MD programs have stellar medical schools. NW is the best and it is barely top 20. Brown? PSU? UMiami? Give me a break. I am not going to read the link, but I seriously doubt she got rejected from the likes of the middle second tier/upper third tier, which includes all of the above. Did she get into a BS/MD program and gave it up? That would be relevant. Otherwise these examples are not contradictory to my statement that Harvard is pretty much a guaranteed ticket to medical school for the capable student.

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<p>See, crimsonbulldog, you didn't read my post. Once again, you are assuming that the BS/MD students are locked into their med-schools. I already said this false. You can undergo a BS/MD program, and STILL apply to other med-schools, including the 'reaches'. If you can't get into any of them, you just simply stay in the BS/MD program. A bird in the hand. </p>

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Should pre-meds stay away from princeton because of grade deflation. whooo, scary!!! That must be why no one from princeton went to medical school last year. And I have two friends who went to Brown PLME and regretted it... etc. Frankly Sakky, you are limited to your computer interaction with collegeconfidential and a circumstantial experience with the md admissions process.

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<p>Frankly, sakky, I have seen no reason to believe that you are particularly authoritative on this issue. I see there are other people here who like BS/MD programs a lot. Maybe you should be a bit more respectful towards them. </p>

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I have a strong distaste for these programs because they feed off the fears of the top candidates and they make them settle early on for maybe not as good as they could have done. But whatever, a medical school is a medical school, right?

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<p>Again - what did I say? You don't have to stay in the BS/MD program. In most cases, you are still free to apply to other med-schools. If you don't get into any of them, then you just stay in the program. If you get into a better med-school, then you simply drop out of your current program. Come on, man, take some time to read my posts. I talked about this specific point in post #34 on this thread. Read my posts before you respond to them.</p>

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I am a strong believer in the american model of going to college and then going to medical school. I feel the same way towards the european model of entering medical school at 18 as I do towards these BS/MD programs. I feel though that the latter are better solely because you can get out of them if you don't want to be a doctor and be none the worse for your time (you still get a bachelors).

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<p>Same thing is true for these BS/MD programs. For the most part, they allow you to bail out with just a bachelor's. So I don't see any reason for you to be any more disdainful of them than of the European model. </p>

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sakky: Rivers Cuomo did not drop out. He just recently graduated with Phi Beta Kappa honors in English. As for James Murdoch, well, doesn't he have significant ties with a certain Rupert Murdoch? He comes from an old money family anyway.

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<p>Uh, yes, Rivers Cuomo DID drop out. Just because you come back doesn't mean that you didn't drop out. Just like actress Elisabeth Shue dropped out and then came back to finish her degree. Bill Gates could, in theory, come back to finish his degree (although I wouldn't hold my breath). Dropping out is the simple act of ending your registration. You can come back to finish your degree later, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you did drop out. </p>

<p>"Rivers Cuomo returned to Boston, but dropped out of Harvard to focus on songwriting."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.songmeanings.net/artist.php?action=biography&aid=54%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.songmeanings.net/artist.php?action=biography&aid=54&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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As for James Murdoch, well, doesn't he have significant ties with a certain Rupert Murdoch? He comes from an old money family anyway.

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<p>And that's EXACTLY my point, which is that nobody drops out from Harvard randomly. They do so because they have reasons to drop out. Similarly nobody turns down top schools for no-name schools randomly. They do so for a REASON. It's all about the underlying reasons. That's why statistically speaking, the 2 pools are not comparable.</p>

<p>this is your post:
Ok, so perhaps you could tell me why is it that an eminent poster here at CC, molliebatmit, has herself admitted that she probably couldn't have gotten admitted to any of the top med-schools, despite having gotten into numerous PhD biology programs (including the PhD program at Harvard Medical School, but not the MD program at HMS). Are you saying that she's scared or misinformed?</p>

<p>this is my post:
no, I'm saying she could get into a medical school that is top20/40. Maybe she can't get into hopkins. But its not like the BS/MD programs have stellar medical schools. NW is the best and it is barely top 20. Brown? PSU? UMiami? Give me a break. I am not going to read the link, but I seriously doubt she got rejected from the likes of the middle second tier/upper third tier, which includes all of the above. Did she get into a BS/MD program and gave it up? That would be relevant. Otherwise these examples are not contradictory to my statement that Harvard is pretty much a guaranteed ticket to medical school for the capable student. </p>

<p>That is an answer to your statement Sakky. </p>

<p>Your post:
See, crimsonbulldog, you didn't read my post. Once again, you are assuming that the BS/MD students are locked into their med-schools. I already said this false. You can undergo a BS/MD program, and STILL apply to other med-schools, including the 'reaches'. If you can't get into any of them, you just simply stay in the BS/MD program. A bird in the hand. </p>

<p>My reply: your shallow analysis fails to include the fact that it is far easier for a harvard student to get into a top tier medical school than any other program that has a BS/MD including Brown. It is the number one feeder school in the country. You might have a bird in hand at Miami, but you just closed your door to the top ten medical schools in the process. Again, this is out of fear. AND secondly just how often to you even think this happens - considering how hard it is to go through the MCAT (its not fun) and do well in pre-med classes. Are you that deluded to think BS/MD's are going to work as hard in those classes and MCAT prep with a "bird in hand" sakky? That's why they are in those programs - so they can relax and venture into other fields or whatever... I guarantee you its not more than 5% in the country. Really Sakky, that was a pretty superficial argument. The reality is that they are going to be disadvantaged when applying elsewhere. I do know of people from Brown stepping upwards to better medical schools, but that is not saying much considering it is the #50 med school in the country. I think they sort of realized that they were selling themselves short midway through college. But that's just my impression. </p>

<p>But my favorite quote from your ramblings has to be this:
Frankly, sakky, I have seen no reason to believe that you are particularly authoritative on this issue</p>

<p>I completely concur with you! And this is my last post on this topic as you have summarized it so well with that statement.</p>

<p>I forgot all about this thread, but now that I see it again, I can reply.</p>

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My reply: your shallow analysis fails to include the fact that it is far easier for a harvard student to get into a top tier medical school than any other program that has a BS/MD including Brown. It is the number one feeder school in the country. You might have a bird in hand at Miami, but you just closed your door to the top ten medical schools in the process.

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<p>How? Again, do you understand how these BS/MD programs work? In most cases, you will get the BS somewhere around year 3 or 4. So what does that mean? Simple - ** you can apply to other med-schools at that point *. If you don't get in anywhere good, fine, you just stay in your BS/MD program. If you do get in somewhere good, then you just withdraw from your current program. Hence, the program gives you a bird in the hand * and STILL allows you to hunt for 2 in the bush **. This is a key point that you either don't see, or (I suspect) you don't want to see. </p>

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The reality is that they are going to be disadvantaged when applying elsewhere. I do know of people from Brown stepping upwards to better medical schools, but that is not saying much considering it is the #50 med school in the country. I think they sort of realized that they were selling themselves short midway through college. But that's just my impression.

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<p>Huh? How's that? Plenty of people get into top med-schools coming from no-name undergrad places. In fact, YOU even said yourself that if somebody has the talent to get into Harvard College, then he probably also has the talent to get into a top-tier med-school. </p>

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I completely concur with you! And this is my last post on this topic as you have summarized it so well with that statement.</p>

<p>I completely concur with you! And this is my last post on this topic as you have summarized it so well with that statement.

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<p>Uh, I put the quotes in the wrong place, but that snippet is actually YOUR post. My God, I can't believe that you have actually forgotten what YOU YOURSELF have written.</p>

<p>But look. I happen to think that BS/MD programs are valuable for some people. You happen to disagree. Fine. You have your opinions and I have mine. We're all entitled to our own opinions. Nobody here is "authoritative", neither me nor you. Your opinions are no better than anybody else's here, and you shouldn't forget that.</p>