<p>Hi guys. I'm writing this on behalf of my rather exceptional friend (he's not on CC, strict parents Lol). He needed some advice and is a prospective Math+CS applicant.
Here's what he's got:
2200+ SAT I
5 in 3 APs (Calc BC, Physics, Comp)
SAT II this Oct and Nov
Completed Online courses etc.
Some CS ECs
5th in school in 10th grade (if that matters)
11th marks: 3 B's, 2 A's
12th: yet left
Several Coding Projects (in java, Python, C++)
Author of two research papers
Fin. Aid status: unknown</p>
<p>His stats are similar to mine. The problem is this kid doesn't study his school work. I've seen him literally pushing himself to even open textbooks LOL. He loves only Math and he's rather brilliant and too passionate, almost to a level of obsession. He had already finished most of the advanced math courses online all well before I even searched for em. All the time, he's solving some god damn Apostol or Courant something. Most importantly, he has also written 2 math research papers (much better than my papers, such that I totally didn't understand the proofs and stuff, so don't ask me to explain haha. It's some college level math topic that he's worked upon) and might get them published. He showed his work to a prof at the IIT and the prof said his results were totally groundbreaking. Now the thing is he doesn't have good school grades. He has a C in Chem, B/A in Physics, A in Eng,Math,Comp. But he's slightly of the rebellious type and can't/does't study Chem come what may because he apparently hates it :P He does only Math and sometimes does coding. Not to forget, he can write quite well too. </p>
<p>Now, will he get into any top Ivy/Stanford/ top uni? If yes, then where does he stand a good chance? HYP & Cornell accept research papers? What will he have to do to get in? Can he explain his low grades in his essay? Probably talk about his research and all? Or should he aim for slightly easier unis?</p>
<p>Hehe, I like this guy. I can certainly relate to the obsession with math and the lethargy when it comes to other subjects (I got 36/80 and 40/80 in Physics and Chem respectively in a recently concluded exam). Chances, I don’t really know. He’ll be a strong applicant, and his research will at least partially shift attention from the low grades. If he needs financial aid, there can NEVER be any college where he’s guaranteed to get in. Not even at the so-called safeties. Did he take the courses at his own pace from MIT OCW or from sites like Coursera/edX? The latter would count a little more, I think, as you get certificates.
P.S. Please post the links to his papers/ PM me.</p>
<p>@confusedhexagon, he said he’ll manage the finance with the help of loans and stuff.
I don’t know, he seems a bit disturbed these days People have been stressing (also showing off) over grades quite a lot and he just sits besides me giving that “Give A Damn” laugh.
About his research: he’s written it in proper research format with properly titled sections and stuff but his PC crashed midway when he was typing in TeX. So he’s back to square one I’ll get you the links as soon as he’s done</p>
<p>And with regards to the courses, he’s done courses on both of the websites you’ve mentioned, though he’s done fewer ones on Coursera simply because some of em are too basic.</p>
<p>Depending on loans alone seems very unwise, but hey, it’s his call. Btw, was he ever into anything competitive? Like competitive coding or olympiads? These can generally show how a generally strong applicant stacks up against others interested in the same field… I’m guessing that the research will be a vital part of his app, he should make sure that it’s properly understood by the Admissions Officers. If they treat it like just another senior year project, your friend’s chances will suffer. But if they understand that he’s done something outstanding, he’ll have a shot at the top unis.</p>
<p>I rarely comment here since I am a parent who is grappling with stuff for my own kid.</p>
<p>However you mentioned his math papers and how they seem to be good and this piqued my curiosity. Apostol wrote a well regarded book on Number Theory. In that case, why don’t you ask him to publish his papers on arxiv.org? These days arxiv.org is peer reviewed and he is bound to get a lot of contacts there, especially professors in the US, who would not only advise him but also help him in gaining admissions in the US. Even the Clay Mathematics Millennium Prize winner Perelman has his paper published there and they seem to accept papers at all levels when I last checked.</p>
<p>@parentind, Thank you for the advice. As far as I know, for arXiV you need a referee who has published 4 or more papers in a related field, if you want your work published. As with Apostol, I’m guessing he was reading the Analysis text but I’m not really sure.</p>
<p>@confusedhexagon, I don’t ask him much about the finance part, it feels weird
Oh and No, he hasn’t done Olympiads and stuff. He’s focussing on IITJEE too.</p>
<p>As for the research, how exactly does an adcom differentiate b/w a school project and research given that a whole LOT of people present their projects as “research?”</p>
<p>All he has to do to get a referee is to go through related papers on arxiv.org and identify some authors. I am sure one of them will guide him. Apart from that if he is in the field of number theory, there are plenty of other forums. Reason why I said about arxiv.org is because it will give him a different perspective on publishing a paper and it has more credibility than an IIT prof’s opinion. Arxiv.org has papers that range from pedestrian to ground breaking.</p>
<p>Sorry the part about Apostol didn’t come out right in my previous post as I reorganized some sentences. Tom Apostol’s book on number theory is a well regarded primer in the field and would be advanced for most students his age.</p>
<p>I don’t know how the Admissions Offices differentiate between papers. I’m just guessing that your friend will benefit if he can somehow make sure that they do.
By the way, there are a LOT of books by Apostol. I personally have two volumes of his Calculus as pdf files, as well as hard copies of his Real Analysis and Analytic Number Theory (perhaps the book parentind was mentioning) which are among the college math books given to IMOTC seniors. But as far as I know, Apostol doesn’t have any book on general, elementary number theory. Some people do a bit of Real Analysis in school, but if your friend is that comfortable with Analytic NT and the likes, then that’s certainly very impressive (I haven’t had the time or courage to pick up that book). Let’s hope some great college sees his potential.</p>
<p>@parentind, Yep, arXiv is pretty much THE thing when it comes to preprints and stuff.
No, not the NT book. I guess it was Calc/Analysis.
Btw, does parentind= Indian parent? :P</p>
<p>@journeyinwards, Yeah man. A lot of kids present their projects as ‘research’ but I guess his work itself will talk about the level.
Lol Apostol. Check out Rudin as well :P</p>
<p>@journeyinwards: Lol, man, I have. We got analysis books by Tao (both volumes), Rudin and Apostol, along with a host of other books. Differential Equations, Topology, Linear Algebra, Abstract Algebra, Lebesgue and Measure, blah blah blah…
The Calc book is pretty much a standard text for people aiming to clear the ISI and CMI entrance tests, actually. I’m too lazy to do too many problems, though.</p>
<p>@confusedhexagon, From what I remember seeing, the ISI and CMI tests were pretty simple. They certainly don’t require Analysis by Apostol.
I think they use Rudin for Math 51@ Harvard. (Google Math 51 just in case you don’t know what it is; it’s so challenging that even Olympiad Medallists tend to drop out :P)</p>
<p>@parentind I think you’re getting confused with Tom Apostol :P, Its an Undergrad text published by wiley recommended for strong foundation in pure core mathematics not just number theory but they don’t have sections on iterations. @journeyinwards If he is confident enough with Apostol then give him Michael Spivak Calculus, even mentioning spivak text is important that he has interest in mathematics.
And I think Harvard and Caltech has good Mathematics course along with some minor computation which that exceptional kid knows well.
Also you cannot publish paper to arXiv and dont ever do so before graduation, no matter how exceptional you’re, but if you want then online blog will be fine.
I hope he is writing his paper using Latex scripts.
Please tell me about the papers he wrote.
I am applying as transfer student so I am much like this kid so I bookmarked this thread. You can hit me PM for help or can discuss here.
I missed the dates of this exams and if your friend have money then this will 100% get you in ivy’s
SAT II [Maths II]
SAT II [Physics II]
Physics Aptitude Test[PAT Cambridge] RS.6000
Mathematics Aptitude Test[Mat Cambridge] RS.6000
CMI Test[Chennai Mathematical Institute]
ISI Test[Indian Statistical Institute]
JEE[L:pL]
NTSE[National Talent Search Exam]
KVPY[Kishore Vaigyanik Protsahan Yojana]
Alternative to board A-levels contact British Council Kolkata before feb 2014 for may 2014 exam
I have some downsides on academic performance so I took MOOC lots of them around 15-20 yes and try to maintain score minimum at 60%, though I have average of around 7.7, and try to implement what I learned in my research paper and I write a few around 2 complete and one just will be completed soon. They’re not that advanced paper what you see at arxiv and I dont want the adcoms to stress out on my app figuring whole thing, so simplicity works best.</p>
<p>@mathsoul, he lost his work midway as his PC crashed. He’s starting all over again. As for me, I’m still learning LaTeX and will send em when I’m done</p>
<p>@akietta Oh, alright. So where you transferring from? Where do you plan to go?
And, with regards to the tests you mentioned, I’m not really of the opinion that acing SAT Subject Tests can get him or me or anyone into Ivy League institutes as such, simply because a whole lot of kids get 790-800 on these tests, esp Asians. From what I know, you need something like an Olympiad Gold Medal (ofcourse a medal is a sure shot way) or some strong ECs.
Yes, as you mentioned, a good JEE rank or a KVPY fellowship can also help. </p>
<p>But what I fail to understand is whether this kind of stuff can compensate for grades that are NOT straight As.</p>
<p>I really wonder by US doesn’t admit on the basis of Board results. I mean that guy will definitely get good scores in Boards by studying. How can they trust schools and students not to cheat while applying with school exam results? This might be a bit of a rant but seriously, gaming the US system is a piece of cake especially if: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>You have a school that ‘supports’ you by faking grades/ranks. This normally happens at these JEE prep colleges. Just imagine the situation where the supportive school goes like : “prepare only for the SATs. We will give you top notch grades irrespective of your actual performance because we want you to get admissions in top unis abroad.”
This works especially when other students are from schools where papers are really tough, correction is poor due to lack of quality faculty, and the counsellor is ignorant and as a result students have poor transcripts. </p></li>
<li><p>Your parents are rich and have contacts. They get you certificates without you doing anything and can get you interns even if you are the dumbest person alive. The new trend is for such parents to get “research projects” for such kids from top institutes in India. </p></li>
<li><p>You lie blatantly on your app. I’ve heard of people doing this and getting admitted at top unis. And please don’t talk about the Karma thing, it’s a miserable explanation for something like this.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Just imagine if you’re a rich kid going to one of those ‘supportive’ schools: all you have to do is ace your SATs- your grades and ECs are sorted out by the school and parents respectively. </p>
<p>And then, people say the US System is merit-based. Seriously?</p>
<p>(This rant comes after a counsellor apparently told my friend that he’s not getting in anywhere, just in case you’re wondering)</p>
<p>journeyinwards: Yep, parentind is what you think it means. Chose it in a moment of serendipity :)</p>
<p>The person you describe doesn’t seem far off from my own kid. Now you know what I am grappling with. He procrastinates and his notes are never complete. He was diagnosed this year with a learning disability and may perhaps have ADD. Fortunately, he is only in 7th grade, so there is time.</p>
<p>akietta: Thanks for the correction. I certainly have no idea of any course material having graduated a long time ago. When I read the name I thought it was Tom Apostol as I have an interest in Number Theory.</p>
People have been stressing (also showing off) over grades quite a lot and he just sits besides me giving that “Give A Damn” laugh.