Okay. So it appears that now most of the top law schools mostly admit people who have been out of school a couple of years before law school, with a much smaller percentage of entering students entering law school straight from college. Implication: it is important to work after college, or else do something else cool like a Fulbright or Peace Corps or something, for a couple of years.
Also, we (parents) won’t have enough money to pay for law school after paying for undergraduate school. Implication: It is important to work after college.
Son has been talking about working for two years in one of the high-paying fields that recruit so many kids from his college, in order to earn money for law school (if he chooses law school- he is still a freshman and he may discover another calling).
Yet, it seems to me that the more time there is after college, the more likely it is that life will intervene and sidetrack you from your career goals. You can meet someone and fall in love and maybe even get married, and that changes your options on where to go geographically and whether to pay for school or keep earning more. Or, you can feel “settled” in a well-paying job, and think you might as well keep earning money instead of spending it- even if you do not love your job.
I love my job. I feel like I am making an important difference in the world every day. Work is fun and adds to my life. Getting paid for doing it has always seemed like an extra treat.
My spouse chose a career he liked, but got stuck in a specific job for years that is not as fulfilling as it could be. I think he could be happier.
I just don’t want my kid to end up giving up a goal and settling for a job that is satisfying in the salary but not in the work itself. I want him to find his job joyful.
So, I am wondering: for those of you whose children or yourselves entered the world of work intending to go to law school— did you end up going to law school?
Law school will always be there. All professional schools prefer work experience. It makes the class room discussion much more relevant after one has paid rent and utilities for a year or two. Peace Corps, Fullbright and Teach for America are great EC’s, as is the military.
Plenty of folks have relationships and get married while in LS, or shortly thereafter.
But look at it this way…by waiting until after graduation to apply, the applicant gets one more semester of grades – hopefully all A’s to boost the GPA even more. Plenty of merit money available, but that requires a high GPA and/or high LSAT. (waiting to apply until after graduation also allows one time to prep hard for the LSAT – a high score can result in the easiest tax free money one will ever make in life.)
Of course, HYS are need-only. But here’s the deal: if one is competitive for HYS, one will receive a great merit package from others in the T14.
I would add, you should try out the profession before entering it. Working as a paralegal, as an assistant of some sort in the court system, as an aid to legal advocates in public interest organizations, these can help a person form informed opinions about the legal profession. What most people think lawyering is, isn’t much like real lawyering.
@TheGreyKing : Curious as to your source that “now most of the top law schools mostly admit people who have been out of school a couple of years before law school, with a much smaller percentage of entering students entering law school straight from college”.
@TheGreyKing : I do agree that life gets in the way of those delaying law school until a few years after college graduation.
Law schools want anyone with a high LSAT score & a solid undergraduate GPA. Then URM status. Doubtful that work experience is much of a factor anywhere but Northwestern’s Law School.
Work experience will not excuse a below median LSAT score, although it may help one with a below median GPA due to the applicant’s demonstrated maturation.
Paralegal work can be poor preparation for top law schools since paralegals tend to work with forms & a degree of certainty & routineness that does not require analytical thinking or analytical skills.
Shadowing an attorney is almost worthless as most of an attorney’s work product is done in one’s head.
I do not recall the original source for my statement— I think I might have first read it here on CC— but I found the sources below. When Yale is reporting only 20% come straight from college, Harvard is reporting only 19% do, and Northwestern is reporting only 14% do (see sources below), it may not be solely due to the schools’ preferences (correlation vs. cause?), but it certainly seems like work experience might be preferred.
Both my spouse and I each went into the working world for a few years before we planned to go to law school. For both us, it solidified our desire to go to law school and it didn’t derail us at all. Which turned out to be a good thing for our kids because that’s where we met.
Now, whether we achieved the goal of finding our jobs joyful? That’s an entirely different question…
In the end neither path [applying straight out of college or working for a couple of years before applying to law school] gives a concrete advantage over the other, according to Yale Law School’s longtime Dean of Admissions. Also noted is that many who were accepted, elected to defer to work before entering law school.
First article suggests that those with work experience can write more directed personal statements.
Second article cites maturity as a primary benefit of work experience. But advises those who do not want to work before applying to law school, to apply & stress their numbers.
@TheGreyKing : Thank you for the cites to the articles !
I’m a lawyer/law professor and do a lot of mentoring with my students so learn a lot about their path to law school.
Many of the T14s look for some kind of work experience, presumably because law students who have come from the workplace have a better understanding of why they are there, what they want to accomplish, and don’t treat law school like 3 more years of undergrad (which often involves a lot of late night cramming – not an effective law school strategy). Many law students work for 1-2 years and then leave work to study close to full time for LSAT before taking/applying – driven perhaps by the search for merit money and the recognition that attending the highest ranked law school possible matters for career options down the road. It would be difficult to commit sufficient time for LSAT prep while a full time undergrad, which is what someone would need to do if they went straight to law school from undergrad. I suppose one could study full time the summer before senior year, but then there is a big gap in the resume if the law school thing doesn’t work out. (I just saw the links above to articles on admissions, but did not read those yet).
One of my kids is interested in law school, and we will likely have some interesting conversations if his choice comes down to his instate top 30i sh public flagship, likely with merit money, so borrowing closer to the $75-90k range vs. full loans at say T8-14, with loans of $275,00+ which can only be handled by getting a highly competitive “big law” job and staying long enough, and living cheaply enough, to pay off at least most of the loans.
I wouldn’t worry too much about 'life getting in the way" and a kid not getting around to applying. If someone is drawn to it, they will pursue it 2 years after undergrad. If they aren’t still interested at that point, and are thriving in their career, then law school may not be the best choice for them – practicing law is a draining job, most days, and those days can be very very long. If you aren’t driven to do it, then it’s probably not the best direction.
There isn’t a whole heck of a lot of joy in the legal profession. There’s a reason lawyers have extraordinarily high rates of depression and substance abuse. If he works for a few years and finds something else he loves - more power to him! He would have dodged a bullet. Law school will always be there, and honestly, I think having prior work experience probably makes a lot of people better lawyers.
Life events do affect choices. For example, a job promotion or having a child may deter one from applying. In similar fashion, a lack of promotion or a layoff may induce one to apply to law school.
A point I made early on is that the best reason to delay, other than for serious LSAT prep, is for maturation purposes–which is reflected in one’s personal statement as the cited articles point out.
But it is not necessary to have post undergraduate work experience before entering law school. Lots of students are ready upon graduation from college.
@Midwestmomofboys : It will be interesting to know where & when your son enters law school. Really enjoyed reading your post.
Also, if targeting biglaw, my thoughts are that it is best to get law school over with as soon as practicable due to the lengthy, piecemeal development process that biglaw associates typically endure.
From my kid’s friends/family friends I’ve seen a ton of different combinations including:
–Students getting into top law schools right out of college. My D had friends who were admitted to Columbia and Stanford directly upon finishing at her LAC. Both were driven to be lawyers, did summer work at law firms and excelled in every way at college (and I imagine both got outstanding LSATs). Her friend who went to Columbia applied ED (which I never knew existed for law school). Both did very well in law school and got great jobs so being a couple of years younger than many students was no issue at all.
–Another friend did a one year fellowship at Oxford or Cambridge (I forget which) after undergrad and is currently at a top law school.
–Some friends who took gap years intending on law school never went. One worked as a paralegal and realized it wasn’t the life she wanted. One went abroad for a couple of years to teach English and seemed to get totally sidetracked. One started working at a Wall Street firm and doesn’t want to give up his well paying job - he may pursue law school or a MBA at some point in the future but we don’t know.
–Two other friends worked as a paralegal for a couple of years and went to law school. One took a full ride at a good law school and the other went to a top law school and is now a lawyer at the same top firm/department she was a paralegal at. Both were glad they had paralegal expereince.
Of course this is all anecdotal information so it is of limited use – but my (hopeful) point is that there is no one best path to take. Life happens in funny and sometimes unexpected ways. I have every confidence that your bright (and well-guided) son will choose one of the many wonderful options that will be available to him.
On another thread several posters discussed job postings for lawyers with 0-2 years experience or with 0-3 years experience. As a result of that discussion, I searched some job postings for attorneys. The interesting aspect was that the best paying jobs listed ($220,000-$250,000) for one with 3-5 years experience required graduation from a “top 50” or “top tier” law school and in the top 25% of graduating class (2013, 2014 or 2015).
My point in posting this is that often we focus on top 14 law schools or a full tuition scholarship to a law school located in the region where one wants to live & work after law school. In some practice areas, and / or for some law firms “top 50” law schools has relevance in the hiring process so be careful if considering a scholarship offer from a second or third tier law school.
Also interesting to note that none of the ads mentioned “law review”. They just asked for writing samples or “strong writing skills”.
@Publisher I think that’s because we are in a boom economy. In tough times, law jobs are definitely scarce. There’s no doubt that the market is saturated with lawyers.
My husband worked for about 3 or 4 years after getting his masters before going to law school. We were married. He went to a law school in a different town 2 1/2 hours away from our house and got an apartment. He worked in the summers and was able to pay for law school without debt. I had a co-op student from work live with me during the semesters he was in law school to help with finances. He went to a T14 school, is a partner a a large firm and loves his job. So it can work.
While not answering your question, let me say that I agree wholeheartedly with you. Life has a way of making things happen and the regrets can be brutal. I’m really on the see-it-through-to-the-end mentality.
D visited Yale and they told her the average age of admitted students is in the mid-20’s, like 26. They told her they strongly recommend she not attend law School - at least Yale - right out of undergrad.
On the other hand she is an LSAT top 3 percenter, was gonna take a gap year, but boy, when those admits came in, it was a different story. She is going to UT-Austin straight out of undergrad. She didn’t hesitate a moment. She just couldn’t pass up a top school, in-state tuition.
One thing I didn’t do was deny her desire for a gap year. I left it completely up to her. Now, she will have no regrets. (at least none aimed at me lol) It was her decision.
You are correct sir or madam. The big earnings after law school today are with the top schools. I looked at the numbers some time back and I’d say bust ass for the LSAT and shoot for a top 50. Top 25 make the bucks.
As of early 2018 when I last looked, I’d say - and I don’t mean to discourage anyone - if you can’t comfortably make a better school, then consider you choice of career.
There are many exceptions: high LSAT/GPA students often go to lower-ranked schools for specialties such as environmental policy law.
This is a great post. Two things schools do not care about even though most people think they do: “demonstrated interest” and work experience.
D went to a top undergrad school that everyone “knew” required demonstrated interest and only applied at the last second because she didn’t need to write another essay. Never visited, called, or knew very much about the school. Her HS GPA was just pretty good. 35 ACT though.
She was about a 3%-er on the LSAT and the accepts poured in, right out of undergrad.
Studying hard, decent essays, doing well on the LSAT are the clues.
Also let me point out that even of that s true, that is, that they are admitting more applicants with work experience, that may be due to the applicants’ preferences, and not the school’s admitting preferences.
For another perspective, neither of my lawyer kids intended to be a lawyer when graduating from college. During the course of their first jobs (one in a think tank in DC, the other in communications for a DC-based organization), each decided that law school would be valuable for their ultimate careers. My eldest worked for a year, took the LSAT, then hiked the Appalachian Trail while applying to law school. My youngest worked as a communications intern, Senate intern and communications fellow while studying for the LSAT. While applying to law school she traveled and taught English abroad. Neither did paralegal or otherwise law-related jobs. Full disclosure, both H and I are lawyers so they knew what the job entailed.
Did these experiences inform both their decision to apply and the content of their applications - yes. Do I think that supported their applications and ultimate results (along with top LSAT scores and solid but not spectacular UG GPAs)? Yes, I do. Both went to T6 law schools and most of their classmates were not K-JD. In their work experiences (one in government and one in biglaw), those who had never worked before have had a harder time adjusting to the expectations of the jobs. This is purely anecdotal and I know many who have gone K-JD successfully, but I do think work experience before law school is valuable. In our case, life experiences pointed my kids to law school, in others it may divert them…I think both are valuable and if a student ultimately wants law school for the right reasons, they will pursue that path.