<p>My brother was accepted at Grinnell. Had stats just as good as me and I went to Northwestern. He went to one of our state flagships, currently ranked somewhere around 90 at USNWR ranking. Never complained about not being challenged and was involveded in all types of research projects. Overall, I think he had a better academic experience than I did at NU.</p>
<p>I am hopeful my own D’s experience will match poetgrl’s D’s. While she isn’t top of the heap at her school, the competitive race to the prize of a top USNWR totally wore her out and I think is one of the reasons she a) choose the schools she did to even apply to and 2) ended up choosing the one that would give her a nice balance in life. S works his tail off, but even he is at a school that is probably further down on the scale of selectivity, although still pretty high up there. And he has definitely become close to many many professors. What is absolutely true, IMO, is that smart, involved, academically engaged students don’t hide very well no matter where they go. My kid is not a grade grubber and likes cooperative vs competitive learning environment. I think he’s made a great choice. </p>
<p>And FWIW - Connecticut College is not second Tier by any stretch. It’s small, but academically it does quite well.</p>
<p>And just a word of advice (although I am needing to take it myself a lot these days)… at this time of year everyone seems to be talking about who got into where and, unfortunately, who didn’t. And some parents seem very intent on making sure you know just how great their kids’ stats were and how your kid’s school of choice was their kid’s safety they didn’t even consider attending! Don’t let the chatter convince you that where your kid ultimately decides to go isn’t “good enough.” And while it’s nice to know what schools kids have to choose from, try to avoid listing your son’s other choices with others as if they are confirmation of how smart he is.</p>
<p>I’m sure your daughter will have a great experience Modadunn! </p>
<p>Keep in mind that somebody finishes college in the bottom 25% of the class.</p>
<p>At every school.</p>
<p>There aren’t any smart kids at second tier schools.</p>
<p>Just kiddin’</p>
<p>There are MANY smart kids at such schools…and yes, a number will be smarter than your child. </p>
<p>Frankly, the way it often works is this…you can’t look at the middle quartiles of a school and think these will be my kid’s classmates IF your child will be taking an academically-challenging major. The kids in THOSE majors will be the stronger students…often largly from the upper quartile.</p>
<p>since your child’s classmates will likely be from the upper quartile, his classes will be challenging.</p>
<p>Is he considering Case? I think it has the most overlap with CMU, his ideal school.</p>
<p>I’m less concerned about this issue for students who choose inherently demanding majors like CS. Even at a REAL second-tier school (not Conn), slackers and dummies just don’t take CS, and if they try, they don’t last.</p>
<p>I’m more concerned for students who want to do English or political science, etc. These are fields that can be fallbacks for less motivated students, and where dynamic class discussion plays a bigger role in learning. I don’t believe that you can get a real education in the humanities without a smart and motivated peer group challenging you. In a hard science field, though, I think having that peer group is a plus rather than a necessity.</p>
<p>This is all exactly what I wanted to hear - that it’s what you make of it, that it can be challenging, that Conn is a good school even if no one outside of New England has ever heard of it. It never seems to be regarded as highly as Grinnell, Haverford, Swarthmore, Williams, etc. though. I know that 90% of their faculty hold the highest degrees, which is impressive, but I don’t see students of his caliber fighting to get in (again, not boasting, just trying to make a point).</p>
<p>ucbalumnus - I was surprised by how much they offered in cs as well but I wasn’t sure if they were lacking in some of the basic courses, so your post was very informative. Do you notice anything else that it might be lacking in? What about the math that he should be taking because that needs to be expansive and advanced too? If he goes to CMU, it will take him years before he can even take creative cs courses because you have to go through their cs “boot camp” first. However, I don’t want it to be less than what he needs to succeed either.</p>
<p>Modadunn - you’re right, I do feel the pressure of people asking where S applied, got accepted, etc. Conn College isn’t exactly a big name is it!? As soon as I give people the list of schools he applied, their reaction to Conn is either “where is that - I never heard of it?” or “that was his safety, wasn’t it?” That makes me a little uneasy since, as I said, I’m not all that familiar with the school. It makes me second guess - after all, it was his safety! He showed a lot of interest though because he’s always really liked it there.</p>
<p>^Case is great for engineers and pre-meds. Not in very good area, but not in the worst one either. Just have to careful planning you daily events. Case also gives great Merit packages. D. got $27k/year (Merit), but choose to attend a different UG.</p>
<p>BTW, CS is OK at any school. I have been in IT for over 30 years. It does not matter where you go, local lowest college is fine. I got my first job after CC, recieved BS and MBA later, tuition covered by various employers. The IT job is always fun!!</p>
<p>There’s a math professor at Williams who got his BA at Conn Coll. He’s a full prof and a vice provost. Williams has arguably the best lac math department in the country. If Conn Coll was good enough for that, what’s your point?</p>
<p>Megan12,</p>
<p>Case is a good school also for math and science and often serves as a substitute for students who did not quite get into CMU. As a bonus, it also provides a well-rounded liberal arts education via its distribution requirements. The immediate area around Case did not seem dangerous and there are several college hang-outs close by. Also, it is very close to the Cleveland Clinic in what appears to be a rapidly growing part of Cleveland (not an oxymoron).</p>
<p>“I don’t see students of his caliber fighting to get in”</p>
<p>Can you tell the difference between the student body at Swat and at Conn College in the classroom? My guess is yes, but we’re talking about the difference between a million dollars and $900,000. A million is better, no doubt, but $900k is still pretty darn good.</p>
<p>What is the point of telling kids to “love thy safety” if in the end we’re telling them not to?</p>
<p>And again, FWIW, I live in a very big city in the midwest. You’d be surprised how many people outside of our private school never even heard of Middlebury or Williams. And you’d also be surprised how many people confuse Amherst with University of Mass at Amherst! My oldest D’s college counselor was unfamiliar with Denison, Wittenberg AND Wooster!! (which might also explain why the younger two never went to the public school). 
But I am here to assure you that many, many kids from our private school in the midwest apply to Connecticut College every year and make it a first choice. And in full disclosure, I had never heard of Carleton before I moved away from the east. I know someone on CC knows exactly how many schools there are in the US… and I don’t know anyone who could possibly know them all! My motto these days is FIDO. My advice is to Drive On… :)</p>
<p>And thanks Poetgrl… I agree!!!</p>
<p>No offense to swat, which would have been a great school for ME, but egads that place is so full of intellect gunners, I wonder what they will do now that colleges seem to be moving more towards adjuncts and away from tenure. Where will the intelectualistas find work?</p>
<p>As for the ED/EA/SCEA issue, schools like northwestern have recently gone to taking nearly half their class ED, there is a massive advantage at places like that for ED. Harvard took 18% in the SCEA round and barely made it above 3% for RD. I think there are gradations between this, but as a strategy, early apps to a low-reach is a better bet in many cases than RD for a match.</p>
<p>We know quite a few “brilliant” kids that chose unlikely schools (I’m talking kids that you would automatically assume HPY). They all have thrived in the environment they chose. College is very different from HS. My D (college Junior now/Pres scholar at her uni) believes that no AP can replace the experience of the professor and intellectual discussion in the classroom. She felt ripped off by the AP’s once she experienced the college setting. She chose a school ED that was a match because of the opportunities as whole she would be able to take advantage of. It was a true fit and like your son, she came alive while visiting the campus. Best money we have ever spent.</p>
<p>Two thoughts: Your S will find like minded kids to connect with and he may also get to have a life. Sorry to be blunt - but both of my kids worked very hard and struggled to really enjoy the experience of hs. They were tired all the time. D is so happy in college - and yes there are those late night paper writing sessions, but she has been able create experiences that make us feel like she is all grown and will be a successful adult.</p>
<p>PS: To OP - I like your thread, many parents probably feel like you do during this time.</p>
<p>IMO Conn College and Haverford are very equal. I know the admission stats are more difficult at Haverford, but I find the “type” of student similar. Intellectual curiosity. A bit laid back. Non-competitive. Enjoys things outside of the classroom as well as inside.</p>
<p>My concern is not that Conn College would be beneath him. My concern is that CM seems a very different environment. The “fit” may not be there.</p>
<p>Conn College is a fav at our son’s private HS. Free music lessons are the biggest perk we hear. Seems many take advantage of it to learn something new.</p>
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<p>[Connecticut</a> College: Course Catalog](<a href=“http://www.conncoll.edu/academics/course-catalog.htm?id1=mathematics#mathematics]Connecticut”>http://www.conncoll.edu/academics/course-catalog.htm?id1=mathematics#mathematics)</p>
<p>Connecticut College math includes the typical core upper division courses like real and complex analysis, abstract algebra, advanced linear algebra, geometry, and topology, as well as courses in some applied areas, though additional elective course selection is more limited than at a large research university math department. For example, courses specifically on number theory, numerical analysis, set theory, and mathematical logic are not listed.</p>
<p>If the student is already extremely advanced in math (i.e. has completed what would ordinarily be college sophomore level math) and intends to major in math, it is more likely that running out of math courses is a concern; such students are likely to want to take graduate level math courses as undergraduates.</p>
<p>However, the math courses offered are sufficient as support for a computer science major. Although a number theory course would be desirable if cryptography is of interest, some of the topics would be covered in the abstract algebra courses; the theory of computation course is also obviously of interest.</p>
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<p>Then again, there are some subjects where UM Amherst is stronger than Amherst is.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread, and good to ask on CC, for sure.</p>
<p>My comment is that these days, I think that the experience and quality of students at the less than tippy top colleges (as you define them) are “moving up.”
First, so many great kids with great stats and great EC’s are applying in general, and there is just not enough room the the top (fill in the number of your choice, if you even care about the rankings or reputation or stats averages) schools. They definitely spill into the next levels (however you define that) of schools.
Secondly, the AdComms, are not just selecting for stats, or one set of characteristics- lots of interesting kids go to lots of different schools.
Third, FIT is becoming increasingly important. People are ignoring the ratings and prestige more and more and going for what feels right for them.
Fourth, with the cost of college going up and FA and Merit Aid not keeping up, many are making their selections for financial reasons.</p>
<p>It would interesting to survey each class on CC to see the trends in how many chose a school for financial reasons, ended up at a safety or lower match, and why they chose the school they did.</p>
<p>The wealth of experience and opportunities at all colleges is being recognized more and more.</p>
<p>And a site like this is a factor in the process, for sure.</p>
<p>"However, the math courses offered are sufficient as support for a computer science major. Although a number theory course would be desirable if cryptography is of interest, some of the topics would be covered in the abstract algebra courses; the theory of computation course is also obviously of interest. "</p>
<p>-This might be needed for Math major. CS does not require math. Engineering requires tons of solid math though.</p>
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<p>LOVE this post as my D just made the very same kind of choice (UGA Honors over Georgia Tech). Decision was made harder by all her stressed out Tech-bound classmates telling her this would be an insane choice. But we parents fully supported it.</p>