<p>I'm a junior in hs in Minnesota and i find myself much more attracted to big public schools than smaller private schools. Is there any downside academically to attending a big public such as UMN, madison, ann arbor, etc., rather than a smaller private? I am interested in engineering so that also draws me to the larger schools and i love sports so i also want a big time sports program, but is there a major downside in terms of your academic expierences that comes with big classes and such rather than a smaller private? Also, what have been your expierences with either yourself or your child at a bigger school?</p>
<p>I go to Umich, and I really like it in part for its size. There is just SO much the campus has to offer, and I think in large part it’s because we have so many perspectives and backgrounds because we have so many people. And at my orientation they kept saying that after a few weeks the school would start to “feel small,” I didn’t understand at the time and I still can’t explain it but that’s definitely been my experience-- it really doesn’t feel like a huge school anymore. Particularly now that I am really solidly into my major, I see someone from one of my classes like every 20 minutes when I am walking through central campus-- the advantage to the College of Engineering is that most of their students are at North Campus for all their classes almost from day one, so it may be the same. You’d have to ask them.</p>
<p>The downside, in the words of my adviser, is that everything is very highly decentralized because it’s so big. It’s hundreds of different offices all trying to work together. It takes time, you get lost in the shuffle if you aren’t persistent, and when something goes wrong and you have to go fix it, it can be a real pain to work through the giant web of offices. But as long as you are prepared tp be persistent and self-advocate, and be prepared to go to your advisers for help when you need it, I don’t think that’s a problem. </p>
<p>I went to smallish, maybe average sized elementary and middle schools, then a very large high school, then a small community college, and on to Umich. I definitely prefer the large school atmosphere. I think my favorite part is that with so many people it is really hard for the “clique mentality” to take hold. If you don’t like somebody, you probably at most only have to deal with them an hour or two a day, and then never have to see them again. You can reinvent yourself as many times as you want and meet new, different people. I feel much less pressure to compete, so to speak, socially at larger schools than at smaller schools. Other people can’t handle the depersonalization of it, but I thrive in it. Some people are just not built for small schools, but some arent built for big schools either. </p>
<p>I don’t know much about the College of Engineering besides how well respected it is, so you should check out the UM Ann Arbor forum here to ask them about classes. I am in the school of Literature, Science, and the Arts and have found that while my lectures are gigantic, professors are still easily accessible and each lecture has a corresponding “discussion” section of about 20-25 students guided by a grad student to support what was said in lecture and develop our understanding further. I really like that model a LOT more than small classes, but other people feel differently. I do not know how the engineering classes specifically are though, you’d have to ask the engineering students or someone at the department, but speaking purely on big school vs small school i don’t think there necessarily has to be a loss in going to a big school.</p>
<p>Parent here.</p>
<p>I went for undergrad to my state’s public flagship, total enrollment in the 30,000 range. The academic downside is just that it would be easy to get lost in the crowd. Especially during your first 2 years, you’ll be taking 101 courses which are going to tend to be large lectures, although many of them will also have smaller discussion sections. You will need to be proactive if you want to have a relationship with a prof or your advisor, but it certainly is possible. Also, even discussion classes are going to be bigger than what they would be at a small private, generally speaking. Again, your level of participation in those classes is whatever you make it.</p>
<p>The upside, of course, is that you’re going to have a much broader variety of classes from which to choose, and will probably encounter a larger number of profs during your time there.</p>
<p>i went to a large public and teach at one now. But I also taught at two smallish schools. I think large and small have their own unique benefits so the challenge is to find what works for you, and not to take the generalizations that people make about them too seriously since like all generalizations, you’ll find lots of exceptions. </p>
<p>My oldest goes currently to a very small, private HS that works much like an LAC (e.g. five kids in AP physics). Spent her whole life there, absolutely insists she would not want to go to a small school for college because of her HS experience (which has been great for her and I think she’d do great in a LAC, but she’s looking forward to a change, to the anonymity, the wide course selection that she never had in HS, the assurance she can ‘find her people’, and maybe reinvent herself a few times over :)). </p>
<p>If you end up looking at large schools, you may want to inquire more deeply about the major or school you will likely be in. You may luck out and find its really a small school within a large school. While my college is giant, the school I teach in is small, cohesive and with terrific comraderie and spirit. Classes are small after first year, students all know one another, and we faculty are very involved with the students and know most of them personally and by name in our major. Most of our classes are discussion based and our doors are wide open- be it to chat about personal issues, get help with assignments, ask us to write letters or give career advice, or join our lab to get a taste of real research. Lots of schools within larger schools are like this.</p>
<p>My son went to a large public flagship; my daughter is at a large private now. In my daughter’s case, the choice of a large school was a very deliberate one. She wanted to be in a larger group of people after the fishbowl-like experience of being in a small magnet program in high school.</p>
<p>Both were pleased with their choices. Neither felt overwhelmed by the size of their universities. My son found opportunities to personalize his experience, including undergraduate research. So far, my daughter has not done the same, but she’s the sort who doesn’t mind being lost in the crowd, so it doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>You may also find that if you have advanced standing through AP coursework or testing out of freshmen level courses, you may avoid many of those big gen ed classes at large public flagships. I know kids at our public flagship of about 30,000+ who tested out of the freshmen gen eds, went the Honors College route and found that their classes were small enough to get to know the prof on a personal level. Some of the Honors College seminar courses can be as small as 10-12 kids in a class. Once again, it’s what you personally feel most comfortable with but just because a school is big, doesn’t mean that all of the classes you’ll encounter will be big as well. </p>
<p>If you schedule a campus visit, try sitting in on one of the lower level engineering classes and maybe one of the gen eds that you’re fairly certain you might be taking.</p>
<p>My brother is in his sixth year at Ohio State. He has had every imaginable opportunity and incredible amounts of fun, in spite of having entered as an introverted, geeky kid. The only reason it has taken him six years to graduate is that he was offered a full-time job after his Sophomore year that also pays part-time tuition, which slowed down his academic progress a bit. But when he graduates, he will already have four years of full-time professional experience. He is busy all the time, loves the Buckeyes with a passion, and is really his own man. I credit this to his being in a place where you can do anything, but where you have to take charge of your own life and make things happen, since no one is holding your hand. If you can handle that, then a big school is for you.</p>
<p>A parent here, too.</p>
<p>Like everything there are advantages and disadvantages to Big vs. small schools. I went to a huge state university (>35,000), taught in a different huge state university, and now work a a smaller, private university (around 9,000 undergrad) where my son is now a sophomore. </p>
<p>The message, however, should be similar wherever you go: Make a small college out of the Big U. If you go through undergrad where you rarely have a professor teach who knows who you are, you are missing one of the great values of a university. Individual relationships from college professors can remain lifelong and are often inspiring to the student. My daughter who went to a private university was unsure of what she was doing, nearly floundering, until she found a professor who saw great things in her. He called her into his office and told her so. Not only did she do very well in his class but she was encouraged and found confidence to pursue her dreams. After graduation, she still continues to seek his guidance. It was a turning point for her. This can happen anywhere but it happens a bit more easily in smaller schools, although going to a small school is no guarantee that you will find such a mentor. </p>
<p>In large universities, going through as an ‘unknown’ undergraduate is frighteningly easy. But if you find a way to make a small college out of the Big U through honors programs (perhaps the BEST way since you will be with top notch students and get more individualized attention. Additionally, grad/professional schools are usually aware of and look favorably on these programs at state schools), smaller majors, or just work really hard at getting to know a professor or two (which can take considerable effort at big universities), you have the pluses of a ‘small college’ within the Big U and you can have all the advantages of big U’s that others have noted. Some of this depends upon your personality and whether you are willing to navigate the large size of a big university. But to find that inspiring professor, frankly, some of it is just good fortune.</p>
<p>Both- mother and son- excellent at UW-Madison. Like any large city a large campus is a series of smaller “neighborhoods”. Different students have completely different experiences depending on their major and where they live, as well as common ground. There is room for many different facets of yourself- many choices. You have to be willing to trust yourself that you can handle life at a big campus, most can. There is no “one size fits all” philosophy of education at a large U- you may have to try different “sizes”, ie figure out what fits you best from the many choices. There is no one mold turning out graduates. Some students know what they want when they enter, others learn it as they go. There are plenty of advisors but plenty of independence as well.</p>
<p>I went to UT-Austin - 50,000 students. I loved it! Always lots to do, and it never felt overwhelming to me. It’s not as if you see all 50,000 kids at once, except maybe at football games, which are a blast. I was also an engineering student, and spent a good bit of my time in one building, with the same group of students. There were only about 60 students in my particular major and year, so I got to know a lot of them really well.</p>
<p>Ironically, one of my very favorite classes at UT was US History, which had hundreds of students. The professor was so dynamic and assigned so many wonderful books, that I really enjoyed the experience. I found that I could talk to him whenever I wanted to. He tried to convince me to switch majors to history!</p>
<p>I had only a couple of classes taught by grad students, but they did a great job. Dynamics is a hard subject to learn, but the guy explained concepts well and gave fair (but hard) exams.</p>
<p>For engineering, I think big schools have the advantage of lots of professors doing cool research. Several of my profs belonged to the National Academy of Engineering, and even after I graduated, I often saw their names in professional journals. When I went to grad school at UT, there were lots of research assistantships available. They paid me to go to school and do research!</p>
<p>Good luck in engineering. It’s a great field.</p>
<p>I was an engineering major at Ohio State which I think qualifies as a large college. What many people fail to recognize is that a large university is actually a large number of individual colleges and departments. And in some cases these departments can be as small and intimate as department in much smaller colleges. For instance, my civil engineering class had less than 50 students, all class sections were less than 30 students, and the department faculty knew us quite well, between classes, ASCE field trips, our student/faculty basketball games, game day cook-outs on the Hitchcock patio and holiday/awards socials.</p>
<p>Yes, those intro general ed lectures were big and if the prof knew you it was as likely to be for all the wrong reasons. But each lecture class was supplemented by recitation sections taught by TA’s. This was where you got your questions answered about the lecture, assignments and tests. Lab sections were also typically small and staffed by TA’s. So even in these large classes students got as much individual attention as they wanted.</p>
<p>However some departments were quite large and impersonal even in the College of Engineering. Mechanical and Electrical had at least 2.5 times the number of students as Civil.</p>
<p>MaineLonghorn, I think I had that same history professor at UT. I loved the huge classes. I used to go sit in on classes between my classes just because many were so entertaining and the big lecture hall format meant that anybody could show up. I also had the classes with only a handful of students. Not a lot of kids signed up for Tunisian Folklore or the History of Religion from the Stone Age to the Hellenistic Period, which are two favorites that come to mind.</p>
<p>I also went to a large public (when the dinos roamed) and DS went to a very large private university. As others have pointed out…the reality is that once you’ve declared a major, you will be really associating with the folks in that major. That number of students will be FAR less than the total number of students enrolled in the university. My department was quite small…less than 50 per class. DS was in a department where there were only 120 graduates or so. Both schools had well in excess of 20,000 students.</p>
<p>Even as a freshman, you will not “know” all 30,000 or so students at a flagship U. You will become friendly with folks in your dorm, folks with similar interests, and folks in some of your classes. </p>
<p>One adcom at a large U did point something out…she said “at a small school, if you don’t find your niche with a group of students, there are not a LOT of other students from which to choose. At a larger school, there are thousands of others.”</p>
<p>Now…having said that, DD chose a smaller school for a couple of reasons. First, she did not want to be taught by teaching assistants. There are none at her school. Second, she wanted to be more than a “number” for four full years.</p>
<p>I just want to add that another generalization to ask about is whether small school means good professors whereas big school means poor teaching by TAs. It is true that at larger schools you will have more instructors who are graduate students or adjunct/sessional instructors than tenure-track professors. But the former are not necessarily worse teachers than the latter at all!</p>
<p>I can attest that some of our WORST professors are those who have been doing it far too long…they’ve gotten bored or lazy or they never were particularly dynamic or interesting but once they have tenure there isn’t a lot of motivation to improve. And I would say the majority of our most valued and award winning professors are actually PhD students and adjunct/sessional instructors! I kid you not. Adjuncts/sessionals, who almost always have a PhD, often take their teaching VERY seriously because they want to get renewed to teach every year (unlike the tenured professor who don’t have that worry). Likewise, experience in the classroom helps but not necessarily. Sometimes grad students put much much more work into it and take it more seriously. Also they are often ‘closer’ to recalling the challenges of learning the subject so they are more tuned into how to get students over the tricky parts or remembering what worked for them (there is great value being an instructor who is NOT a long time master of a subject area!). </p>
<p>Finally, in a large school students can often switch sections or postpone when to take a course so that they have more choice in WHICH professor they get (at a smaller school, you may have no choice). So for example if you need to take economics in a large school, and math isn’t your strong point, you can seek out the section taught by the prof who avoids calculus; if you heard one prof is into class discussions but you prefer a lecture only, you can often choose which approach you want. </p>
<p>So I suppose it helps to find out what students in your major of interest think at the schools you are considering: how do they rate their teacher? What venues are there to judge the professors (are their internal ratings of professors by students available? or must students rely on the very full-of-noise RateMyProfessor ratings only?) How accessible are the professors? How often are tenure-track vs. grad students vs. adjuncts teaching the classes and which ones?</p>
<p>I attended a very large public (one of those on your list) for undergraduate, taught and did research at another. My husband is, and has been for decades, a professor at two other large flagship public universities. One of my kids is at a medium-size private, and the other will almost definitely be at a large flagship public next year.</p>
<p>I think there are a couple of fair generalizations to make on the negative side:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The immature and/or very shy student may get lost in the system (academically) or overwhelmed socially.</p></li>
<li><p>It can be difficult to get good, personal, academic counseling if you are in a large major in a large subdivision of the university.</p></li>
<li><p>Failure to get good counseling, or even just not being sure what your goals are, can lead to extra semesters in school. This happened to me, big time, but back in the last century students could put themselves through school by working, so it wasn’t a big financial deal. I liked being a student, so I didn’t care that I was on the extra years plan. Nowadays it is a big financial deal.</p></li>
<li><p>Public universities are in for a few rough years just when you, OP, are getting there. Sad to say, engineering might suffer because fewer sections of courses are a big potential problem, and engineering curriculum has some specific sequences that must be followed. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Others have mentioned the upside of large, vibrant universities and I am happy to second all of them. If you are mature; are going in with a good idea of how universities operate–or you are a quick study and pay attention; if you are not painfully shy and are willing to approach professors about research opps and internships; if you insist on good advising and pay close attention to what you are advised; if you are sure of yourself and don’t feel obliged to do stupid things just because some of the other guys in your dorm are–if you meet these requirements, a large university can be the perfect place to get an undergraduate education.</p>
<p>Consider this thread bookmarked. Thanks for all the great thoughts, and thanks to the OP for starting the conversation!</p>
<p>Parent here too. Everyone has focused on the academics but I will add that I went to a big public U and my son is at a large U. You have to be the kind of person who will totally advocate for yourself. Go to housing if there is a problem with your dorm, go to financial aid and straighten out paperwork, figure out who your advisor is and seek them out when you need help.<br>
At the end of my son’s freshman year his roommate’s father told me he wished his son was more like mine in the sense of being an advocate for himself. There is a lot more red tape at a bigger school. Are you the kind of person who will speak up, seek out what you need?</p>
<p>I hear a lot about how smaller schools are better for shy or socially awkward students than bigger schools. It sort of sounds right on the surface but it’s like saying quiet people are better in small towns than big cities. I am not convinced its so. </p>
<p>I do think if the shy/socially awkward student can be sure they have the right socially fit at a smaller school, that is ideal but what if its not the right social fit? I think the advantages of a big university is that social fit isn’t important. The large and diverse social environment can allow quiet or socially awkward students to find a million different people to interact with and a million methods by which to meet like-minded others (with clubs, activities etc) and to not be judged or held to a smaller community’s expectations. </p>
<p>I DO think for big schools to work for students, it is ideal if students have shown from past behavior they can a) take initiative and b) are willing to seek out the right people to help them with stuff. But one can be very shy/quiet or socially awkward, and yet still quite capable of the above. I know because I see such students in my office all the time.</p>
<p>I am a bit shy and so socially awkward that my family wants me to see a doctor, and I CANNOT STAND being in a small group vs large group situation, so I would agree with starbright. I tend to have a HELL of a time finding a “social fit,” as you put it, and the odds of me finding it in a little group where I may only have one or two chances to “fit in” is probably a million to one, and that pressure stresses me out and makes me even less likely to socialize and then I really don’t fit in whether I could have or not. At the big school I know if it doesn’t work out with one group there are a zillion others and it just DOESN’T MATTER if some people don’t like me, which actually makes me MORE outgoing. Getting to go to my large high school was probably life changing in getting me to realize that all it takes is a larger group and I can actually be a happy, social person. I wouldn’t have gone to a small college if you’d paid me. (And knowing how much debt I am incurring at the moment, that’s pretty significant! :P)</p>
<p>Another factor in that, at least for me, is that as an introvert it is extremely nice to be able to fade into the crowd when I want to. That is one reason why I prefer larger classes to small. The pressure to be a part of the community at all times is exhausting to me, and it is so much easier for me to be able to sit and take in a class and then go talk to someone if I need help, rather than being in a small class setting where much more is expected socially, even on minute levels. I can selectively disconnect myself whenever I want if there is nobody I know around and I need a break, which tends to be the case fairly often unless someone I know just passes by. And when I WANT to socialize, I can go do so easily.</p>
<p>Perhaps there is a bit of confusion over what some posters (like me, for instance) mean when they say “shy”. In this conversation, I did not mean shy as a synonym for introverted or preferring a relatively small and restricted social group. I meant shy, as in being reluctant to approach professors, demand a different advisor, seek tutoring when needed, or attend a meeting of an extracurricular activity of interest.</p>
<p>I quite agree that small colleges can be a big problem if an introverted student fails to find the right group.</p>
<p>I should be more careful to define my terms.</p>