<p>whoa whoa whoa fellas... lets argue about the subject, not about each others character. Keep it clean please.</p>
<p>What BigIs, Owlice, I, and others find so upsetting and frustrating in this discussion is the insistence of the opponents of accommodations to completely disregard all that we have learned about learning disabilities and differences so that they can continue to rant about those with "mental deficiencies." I would consider it a positive outcome if we could get Bescraze and the others to just stop referring to students who suffer from learning disabilities as having "mental deficiencies."</p>
<p>The earlier post about Stephen Cannell got me thinking and I went looking for a list of successful, notable individuals who have overcome their learning disabilities and become successful, accomplished, and acclaimed in the "real life" to which the accommodations opponents keep referring as justification for why there should be no accommodations. Such a list appears below.</p>
<p>Under the Writers section is the name of children's author/illustrator Patricia Polacco. I'm an elementary school special education teacher and use many of her books with my students. Her stories are touching & caring and teach many lessons about love, friendship, fairness, and compassion. I always work one particular book in early in the year - Thank You, Mr. Falker. Here are Patricia Polacco's comments on this work from her website: </p>
<p>**THIS STORY IS TRULY AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL. IT IS ABOUT MY OWN STRUGGLE WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO READ.*</p>
<p>THIS STORY HONORS THE TEACHER THAT TOOK TIME TO SEE A CHILD THAT WAS DROWNING AND NEEDED HELP. I AM A DYSLEXIC, DISNUMERIC AND DISGRAPHIC. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO TRY AND LEARN ALONG WITH OTHER STUDENTS WHEN I NEEDED SPECIALIZED HELP...HELP THAT WASN'T AVAILABLE IN THOSE DAYS. I REMEMBER FEELING DUMB, THAT TERRIBLE FEELING ABOUT MYSELF WAS COMPOUNDED BY BEING TEASED BY A BULLY. THAT BOY CHANGED MY LIFE AND MADE ME FEEL SO UNSAFE AND SO SAD THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL ANYMORE. MR. FALKER, MY HERO, MY TEACHER, NOT ONLY STOPPED THIS BOY FROM TEASING ME, BUT HE ALSO NOTICED THAT I WASN'T READING WELL AND GOT A READING SPECIALIST TO HELP</p>
<p>TO THIS DAY, I REMEMBER THE FIRST DAY THAT WORDS ON A PAGE HAD MEANING TO ME...MR. FALKER HAD REACHED INTO THE MOST LONELY DARKNESS AND PULLED ME INTO BRIGHT SUNLIGHT AND SAT ME ON A SHOOTING STAR. I SHALL NEVER FORGET HIM...SO THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN BOTH TO HONOR MR. FALKER, BUT ALSO TO WARN YOUNG PEOPLE THAT MEAN WORDS HAVE A TERRIBLE POWER...AND THAT THEY SHOULD DO ALL THAT THEY CAN TO SEE THAT TEASING STOPS AT THEIR SCHOOL.</p>
<p>THANK YOU, MR. FALKER,*</p>
<p>Source: Thank</a> You, Mr. Falker</p>
<p>I was going to use it to make a point about the arguments against accommodations that have been made in this thread, but I think that Ms. Polacco's words above do that superbly. Bescraze and others, go down to the library or the local Border's and read this book, maybe even read several of her books. You can learn more from Patricia Polacco's "children's" books than most of the college classes you will one day be sitting through.</p>
<p>Famous People with Dyslexia and other Learning Disabilities and/or AD/HD
from Famous</a> People with Dyslexia and other Learning Disabilities and/or AD/HD - SchwabLearning.org</p>
<p>Did you know that many successful and famous people grew up with learning disabilities (LD) and/or Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (AD/HD)? Actress Whoopi Goldberg, business leader Charles Schwab, and Olympic diver Greg Louganis, to name a few, are all inspirations. Talk with your child about some of these successful people whose interests he shares or whose accomplishments he may admire. This will help him understand that hes not alone with his struggles and will foster hope for his future goals.</p>
<p>Note: You may notice that we havent included some of the people mentioned on other lists of people suspected of having LD and/or AD/HD. While they may have struggled with certain aspects of learning, we cant confirm that they had a specific disability because they lived before these diagnostic categories came into use.</p>
<p>ARTISTS & ARTISANS</p>
<p>Chuck Close is one of the nations most celebrated contemporary artists.</p>
<p>Andrew Dornenberg, an award-winning chef, says that cooking "saved" him from his struggle with dyslexia.</p>
<p>Sculptor Robert Graham struggled with dyslexia. His wife, actress Anjelica Huston explains, Robert didnt realize he had a form of dyslexia until his own son was diagnosed. But Robert's artistic gift immeasurably outstripped his difficulty.</p>
<p>Tommy Hilfiger is an internationally-known fashion designer.</p>
<p>Robert Rauschenberg was a multi-media artist who had significant influence in the world of modern art and was even called the "Picasso of the 21st Century." </p>
<p>Mackenzie Thorpe, world-famous painter, urges people at an exhibit of his work to "stop looking with your eyes and see with your feelings."</p>
<p>Acclaimed artist Robert Toth has paintings, sculptures, and bronzes on display in museums throughout the world, including the Smithsonians National Portrait Gallery in Washington, D.C.</p>
<p>Acclaimed artist Willard Wigan is the creator of the smallest works of art on earth. He is emerging as the most celebrated micro-miniaturist of all time.</p>
<p>ATHLETES </p>
<p>Billy Blanks, world class martial artist and television and movie actor, has created a foundation to promote self-sufficiency among high-risk women and children.</p>
<p>Terry Bradshaw, former NFL quarterback, now host of Foxs NFL pre-game show, recently wrote a book in which he reveals that he has AD/HD.</p>
<p>Scott Eyre, San Francisco Giants pitcher, was diagnosed with AD/HD at 30.</p>
<p>Cammi Granato is a two-time Olympian in ice hockey and a U.S. National Womens Team member since 1990.</p>
<p>Bruce Jenner, 1976 gold medalist in the Olympic decathlon, is described as the "Worlds Greatest Athlete."</p>
<p>Chris Kaman is the center for the NBAs Los Angeles Clippers. </p>
<p>Hank Kuehne, PGA star, used golf as an escape from his troubles at school.</p>
<p>Mike Lorenz is a lineman for the New England Patriots.</p>
<p>Greg Louganis received an Olympic gold medal in diving in the 1984 and 1988 games and advocates for AIDS awareness.</p>
<p>John E. Morgan, PGA champion, was bullied as a kid because of his learning disabilities.</p>
<p>Jim Shea, Jr. earned a gold medal competing in the skeleton (a small sled) event at the 2002 Winter Olympics, making him the first third-generation Winter Olympian in U.S. history.</p>
<p>Former Olympic fencer Molly Sullivan Sliney has made it her mission to speak to students and encourage them to believe in themselves and follow their dreams. She rose above her own struggle with dyslexia to become a world-class athlete.</p>
<p>Neil Smith, NFL professional football player, is defensive end for the San Diego Chargers.</p>
<p>Jackie Stewart is a race car driving champion who has been inducted into the Grand Prix Hall of Fame.</p>
<p>Stan Wattles is an up-and-coming race car driver in the Indy Racing League.</p>
<p>BUSINESS LEADERS</p>
<p>Richard Branson is an enormously successful entrepreneur and founder of 150 enterprises that carry the Virgin name, such as Virgin Airlines. </p>
<p>John T. Chambers, CEO of Cisco Systems, has revolutionized the technology industry and is recognized as one of the most fascinating business leaders of our times.</p>
<p>Barbara Corcoran, founder of one of New York Citys largest residential real estate agencies, recently authored Use What You ve Got & Other Business Lessons I Learned from my Mom.</p>
<p>Ingvar Kamprad, Swedish founder and chairman of IKEA stores, claims he adapted the inner workings of his business to compensate for his dyslexia.</p>
<p>David Neeleman founder and CEO of Jet Blue Airways, started his first airline while he was still in college. </p>
<p>Paul Orfalea is the founder and chairperson of Kinkos, an international, billion-dollar copy service company.</p>
<p>Charles Schwab is the founder, chairperson, and CEO of the Charles Schwab Corporation, the largest brokerage firm in the U.S. He also has dyslexia.</p>
<p>Diane Swonk is Senior Managing Director and Chief Economist for Chicago based Mesirow Financial, one of the nations largest banks.</p>
<p>James Levoy Sorenson is a Utah entrepreneur who brings his talents to a wide range of ventures.</p>
<p>Donald Winkler, CEO of Ford Motor Credit, has inspired businesses to overcome obstacles to success. He actively supports individuals with LD.</p>
<p>COMMUNITY ADVOCATES & ACTIVISTS</p>
<p>Erin Brockovich, inspiration for the movie of the same name, now serves as Director of Environmental Research at the law offices of Masry & Vititoe. </p>
<p>Dexter Scott King, son of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., is President and CEO of The King Center in Atlanta, GA. His memoir, Growing Up King, was published in 2003. </p>
<p>Valli Kugler, Miss Tennessee 2002, who set up a summer camp for children with learning disabilities (LD) when she was a student at the University of Tennessee, used the pageant as a platform to increase understanding of LD. </p>
<p>Kelly McCorkle, legislative correspondent for Representative Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), is a former Miss South Carolina who made learning disabilities part of her pageant platform. </p>
<p>ENTERTAINERS & CELEBRITIES</p>
<p>Princess Beatrice of England, daughter of Prince Andrew and fifth in line to the throne, speaks out about dyslexia.</p>
<p>Daniel Bedingfield, British pop star/composer, recorded his first hit record in his bedroom. </p>
<p>Singer Tony Bennett, best known for his hits Rags to Riches, Fly Me to the Moon, and I Left My Heart in San Francisco is a 2005 Kennedy Center honoree and the recipient of 12 Grammy Awards.</p>
<p>Orlando Bloom, the popular English actor, played Legolas, the elf warrior in the film, Lord of the Rings.</p>
<p>Cher, an Academy Award-winning actress, is also well-known for her pop music and 1970s hit TV variety show. (Source: Barbara Walters Special excerpted in Everybody Has a Song, 2001.) </p>
<p>Patrick Dempsey's 20-year acting career includes leads in the recent films Sweet Home Alabama and Scream 3. He currently stars in the television medical drama Grey's Anatomy.</p>
<p>Danny Glover, acclaimed actor of theatre and film, has used his celebrity status to advance many community programs and worthy causes, such as AIDS awareness in South Africa and the advancement of minority youth. (Source: On a Roll Talk Radio about Life and Disability, October 29, 1999)</p>
<p>Whoopi Goldberg is an actress and comedian who has used her stardom to raise money to eliminate homelessness.</p>
<p>Brian Grazer, successful producer of movies such as A Beautiful Mind and Apollo 13 recalls his personal struggle with dyslexia. (Source: Christian Science Monitor, January 4, 2002.)</p>
<p>Actor Woody Harrelson rose to fame as Woody on TVs hit series, Cheers. His movie career includes many starring roles and an Academy Award nomination.</p>
<p>Salma Hayek is a Mexican-born actress who co-produced and starred in the film Frida, about artist Frida Kahlo.</p>
<p>English film actress Keira Knightley, starred in Bend It Like Beckham and Pirates of the Caribbean, and played the role of Guinevere in a new King Arthur film.</p>
<p>Jay Leno is a popular comedian and late-night talk show host.</p>
<p>Brad Little, star of the Cincinnati production of Phantom of the Opera, also works to preserve African wildlife.</p>
<p>Jamie Oliver, Britains "Naked Chef", whose programs appears on the Food Network, is known for his lively personality and easy-to-prepare recipes.</p>
<p>Edward James Olmos is a celebrated actor, entrepreneur, and activist who supports and advocates for Latino culture in the U.S.</p>
<p>Joe Pantoliano, television actor in The Sopranos, survived life on the streets as a kid.</p>
<p>Celebrity designer Ty Pennington was diagnosed with AD/HD as a teenager and now talks openly and publicly about his experience managing the disorder. He wants to "help other kids and families understand that there are people out there ready to help them and that its possible to live a productive life with ADHD."</p>
<p>Suzanne Somers is an actress and Las Vegas entertainer who has also become a successful entrepreneur.</p>
<p>Vince Vaughn is a movie actor who was featured in The Break-Up, Wedding Crashers, Thumbsucker.</p>
<p>Lindsay Wagner, most famous for her title role on the hit 1970s TV series Bionic Woman, has dedicated much of her time to raising awareness about learning difficulties.</p>
<p>Henry Winkler, also known as "The Fonz" from the hit TV series Happy Days, is a producer, author, Yale graduate, and childrens advocate.</p>
<p>EXPLORERS & ADVENTURERS</p>
<p>Ann Bancroft, an honoree in the National Womens Hall of Fame, was the first woman to travel to the North Pole and lead an all-woman dog-sled team to the South Pole.</p>
<p>LEGAL & POLITICAL FIGURES</p>
<p>David Boies, a runner-up in 2000 for Time Magazines Man of the Year, is a prestigious lawyer involved in high-profile cases. </p>
<p>James Carville, is one of Americas most famous political consultants. According to E. Clarke Ross, CEO of Children and Adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (CHADD), Mr. Carville is perhaps one of the best-known people in Washington, and he lives with AD/HD. Carville is also an author, restaurateur, and co-host of radio and television shows. Today he concentrates on international political and corporate consulting. </p>
<p>Gavin Newsom is the youngest mayor of San Francisco in 100 Years.</p>
<p>Nelson Rockefeller served as governor of New York for 12 years and as Vice President of the United States under Gerald Ford.</p>
<p>Peter Wright is an attorney and advocate who represents children with special educational needs. </p>
<p>MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS</p>
<p>Harvey Cushing, M.D. (1869-1939) a world renowned neurosurgeon, had dyslexia.</p>
<p>Helen Taussig, M.D. (1898-1986) This successful cardiologist struggled with dyslexia, which made school difficult for her. Even so, she graduated from Johns Hopkins Medical School. </p>
<p>Delos Cosgrove, M.D. is a cardiothoracic surgeon, inventor of several medical devices, and CEO of the Cleveland Clinic. He says, I didn't know I was dyslexic until I was 33 years old. I went all the way through medical school without knowing it.</p>
<p>MUSICIANS</p>
<p>Harry Belafonte is a famous African American singer, actor, entertainer and political activist who, even into his seventies, uses his position as a celebrity to promote human rights worldwide.</p>
<p>Jon Finn is active in the music business as a musician, songwriter, and engineer/producer.</p>
<p>Stephan Jenkins, is a former University of California at Berkeley valedictorian and the singer-songwriter for Third Eye Blind, a rock group with two platinum albums to its credit.</p>
<p>Jewel is a young pop-music sensation who recently wrote an autobiography of her life growing up in Alaska.</p>
<p>Phillip Manuel, one of the countrys leading jazz vocalists, was diagnosed with AD/HD in 2000 and says only then did his life journey begin to make sense to him.</p>
<p>Bob Weir, guitarist and vocalist, formerly with The Grateful Dead, is now bandleader of RatDog.</p>
<p>SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS, & TECHNOLOGY EXPERTS</p>
<p>Engineer and inventor William "Bill" Hewlett (1913-2001) co-founded with David Packard the Hewlett-Packard Company in 1939, which became the second-largest computer company in the world. </p>
<p>Dr. John (Jack) Horner is a famous paleontologist, or dinosaur expert, who advised Steven Spielberg on films such as Jurassic Park and The Lost World.</p>
<p>Don Johnston, CEO of Don Johnston, Inc. His mission is to support diverse learners with proven instructional models, effective literacy strategies, and innovative technologies to help them reach grade-level performance..</p>
<p>John Roberts, CEO and co-founder of SugarCRM, is seen as a pioneer in commercial open-source software applications that businesses use for tasks such as managing sales and keeping track of customers.</p>
<p>Richard Rogers, one of Britain's most-admired architects, is known for his many stunning buildings and his pioneering views on sustainable cities.</p>
<p>Bill Wilson, fire investigator with a seventh sense, has a reputation for solving the unsolvable in car crash mysteries.</p>
<p>WRITERS & MEDIA PROFESSIONALS</p>
<p>Avi, is the award winning author of more than 50 books for children and young adults. </p>
<p>Robert Benton, a three-time Academy Award-winning screenwriter and director who is dyslexic, still finds reading and writing laborious.</p>
<p>Gareth Cook is a Pulitzer Prize winning science writer for the Boston Globe newspaper. </p>
<p>Stephen J. Cannell is a successful novelist and an Emmy Award-winning TV writer and producer who has created or co-created over 40 different shows.</p>
<p>Anderson Cooper is a CNN news anchor who gained public attention for his coverage of Hurricane Katrina.</p>
<p>John Dunning is a Denver mystery writer whos also a bookstore proprietor.</p>
<p>Fannie Flagg is a writer and actor who is most famous for her novel Fried Green Tomatoes which was later produced as a movie.</p>
<p>Richard Ford is an author who won both the Pulitzer Prize and the PEN/Faulkner Award for his novel, Independence Day in 1996 a first in the literary world. (Source: Newsday, March 20, 2002)</p>
<p>Jackie French is the author of numerous kids books, as well as books about gardening and Australian history.</p>
<p>Terry Goodkind is the author of 8 best-selling fantasy novels.</p>
<p>John Irving is a novelist and screenplay writer of World According to Garp, Hotel New Hampshire, and Cider House Rules, a movie that recently won acclaim and award nominations.</p>
<p>Poet Richard Moore has struggled with dyslexia all his life, yet it hasn't kept him from doing what he loves. A graduate of Yale University, he has published a novel, a book of literary criticism, and 12 books of poetry the first of which, A Question of Survival, earned him a Pulitzer Prize nomination in the 1970s.</p>
<p>Patricia Polacco, prolific childrens author and illustrator, didnt learn to read until she was 14.</p>
<p>Victor Villaseñor is a Mexican-American author who has written 9 novels, 65 short stories, and a critically-acclaimed screenplay.</p>
<p>Art Rodriguez is a California author who documents his challenging childhood in childrens and young adult books. </p>
<p>Atoosa Rubenstein, who has dyslexia, was successful as the editor in chief of Seventeen magazine. Today she has her own digital business and a consulting firm advising companies how to speak to the teen market. </p>
<p>Poet Philip Schultz, a recent winner of the Pulitzer Prize, suffers from dyslexia and didn't learn to read until he was in the fifth grade. </p>
<p>Writer and playwright Wendy Wasserstein (1950-2006) won multiple awards for her play, The Heidi Chronicles, including the Pulitzer Prize.</p>
<p>Ahmet Zappa, son of the late rock musician, Frank Zappa, has authored the first book in a planned trilogy of monster stories.</p>
<p>I will be honest. The above post was way too long to read---I am sorry you people disagree, but to put it simply your writing is offensive and ignorant. If someone disagrees with you, it doesn't neccessarily make them wrong. In numerous cases extra time can benefit someone on a test like the SATS, but in real life people need to react quickly to situations and they will not recieve this benefit. You can obviously still be successful, there are always examples like that. Here is my question than all-mighty mental-disability experts, if this is all so common knowledge, why is it that there is no asterisk on the score of people who had extra time? Do they not trust colleges to make the same informed decision as you?</p>
<p>This thread actually represents a really interesting question once you get past the personal attacks. It does seem odd that people get extra time when they have a recognized learning disability, but not if they simply naturally read slower than others to the point at which they are incapable of completely finishing the exam. What makes the two different? Nobody's trying to say that people with learning disabilities don't deserve accommodations or that they won't be successful because they won't have these extra provisions in life (OK edit: I'M not trying to say any of that, can't speak for others), but I'm just interested in looking at the potential double standard. Does anyone perchance have a link to one of the studies that were referenced earlier proving that the person who simply reads too slowly wouldn't do better with extra time? That kind of evidence could really get the argument somewhere. Without the study in hand, though, it does seem counterintuitive that somebody who reads too slowly to finish but doesn't have a true learning disability wouldn't be able to improve their score if given extra time. What do you guys think, should that person be given extra time as well? If so, where do we draw the brightline for receiving extra time? What ought to constitute a significantly disadvantage on the test? As a debater, the whole topic is fascinating to me. I'd be really grateful for a link to one of those studies. Thanks so much!</p>
<p>Bescraze, did you read the links I'd posted in my previous post?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The above post was way too long to read
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The vast majority of the post was the list of successful LDs. Did you at least read up to that? Or is it just more convenient to ignore any evidence that doesn't support your preconceived notions? I would not be surprised - that is the example set by our national leadership the past seven years. </p>
<p>
[quote]
in real life people need to react quickly to situations and they will not recieve this benefit
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"Receive" - I before e, except after c. Many misspellings throughout your posts - perhaps dysgraphia, a learning disability that manifests as a problem with written expression (poor spelling is one sign). </p>
<p>You are what? 17 and still with another year to go in high school? Sorry, your experience in "real life" is so limited that you are not credible in what it takes to get along in real life. Real life lesson #1: "Reacting quickly to situations" rarely calls for the skills needed to quickly take a standardized test. Now go, grasshopper, and see how this is true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Here is my question than all-mighty mental-disability experts
[/quote]
</p>
<p>One more time. Learning disability. Can you say that? There, I knew you could.</p>
<p>
[quote]
why is it that there is no asterisk on the score of people who had extra time?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Better yet, let's use footnotes for all possible background situations. Here are some examples:</p>
<p>1 - Student attended elite private school with low student-to-teacher ratios and elaborate support services with tuition in excess of $15,000 per year.</p>
<p>2 - Student attended suburban public school with overcrowded classrooms, 12-year old textbooks, computers running Windows 98, and expecting another cut in funding next year because local residents successfully lobbied legislature to cut school taxes because their kids are going to private schools.</p>
<p>3 - Student received private math tutoring at a total cost of $9,000.</p>
<p>4 - Student failed 9th grade math and repeated course with the same teaching strategies, using the same text and curriculum, while receiving no additional support or intervention.</p>
<p>5 - Student completed an SAT test preparation course at a cost of $3,000.</p>
<p>6 - Student received extra time on SAT due to a learning disability diagnosed in 4th grade.</p>
<p>7 - Student had breakfast this morning (well, every morning) of eggs, bagel, freshly made fruit salad, and pomegranate juice prepared by domestic servant.</p>
<p>8 - Student fixed own breakfast of leftover macaroni and cheese.</p>
<p>9 - Student left home 45 minutes before test time and drove to test in one-year old SUV received as 16th birthday gift.</p>
<p>10 - Student left home two hours before test time take a bus and a subway to test.</p>
<p>I'm sure we can come up with more and then send the suggested list to the College Board.</p>
<p>Okay, I tried rationally discussing this issue and was called ignorant and offensive. I'm just glad that there is no chance Bescraze will ever go into teaching.</p>
<p>K9Leader, learning disabilities are the only reason someone might get a time accommodation on the SAT. (I'm sure you know that already; just reminding you and others.)</p>
<p>Well... why do they not offere differing lengths of time so that the students with LDs still feel the time pressure. I live in Illinios, and the main test we use is the ACT, which is completely time pressure oriented. All of the studys that you have linked to use the SAT as the test, and I agree that extra time on the SAT would not help not only because the studies say so, but also because I think that the main limiting factor on SATs is knowledge, not time. Anyway, back to my point. I have a few friends with LDs, and when we took the PSAT (prarie state achievement test, not the other one), they had the extra time allotted. The test was actually very very difficult that particular time, and on a few sections, I did not have enough time to complete the exam at all, but with the generous curve I still recieved a 33. During my conversation about the test with my friends with LDs, I heard that they all got the same amount of extra time (double time or 150% or something), and they had no problem with the test. One of my LD friends bragged to me about how he finished the test 20 minutes before time was called, and he took a nap (aka no time pressure at all). When we got our scores back, my friend (the nap taker) scored a 35. He was extatic because on all of the practice tests he had taken he averaged a 25. This kid was not smart enough to get a 35 without extra time, he is infact kind of stupid (not talking about LD, do not get offended). I would support the asterisk next to peoples scores, and I would also support changing the extra time allotted based upon the severity of a student's LD so they still feel the time pressure that is an integral part of the test taking experience.</p>
<p>
[quote]
K9Leader, learning disabilities are the only reason someone might get a time accommodation on the SAT. (I'm sure you know that already; just reminding you and others.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, that was the point I was making. If the premise is that the advantage of extra time should somehow be noted on the score report, then all kinds of other advantages (many of which the accommodations opponents likely enjoy themselves) should also be noted.</p>
<p>does anyone actually have a link to a study that proves that a kid who can't finish the test because he reads too slowly but does not have a learning disability would actually not do better if he were given the extra time to answer the remaining questions on the exam? It just seems so counterintuitive, I have a hard time accepting that fact without a warrant. Once again, not saying that kids with learning disabilities DON'T deserve extra time, just wondering where and how we draw the line for when kids DO deserve it.</p>
<p>K9Leader, I understood the bit about all the other advantages; that wasn't the point of my pointing out the other reasons that someone might need extra time (motor skills disability, etc.).</p>
<p>TomHirschfeld:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well... why do they not offere differing lengths of time so that the students with LDs still feel the time pressure.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What makes you think they don't?</p>
<p>Oh, yeah -- not knowing anything about the topic. Really, go READ what the College Board site has on it about accommodations, please. Until you've done that, you don't know WHAT the College Board offers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Once again, not saying that kids with learning disabilities DON'T deserve extra time, just wondering where and how we draw the line for when kids DO deserve it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The line is drawn with 1.) a diagnosis; 2.) documented accommodation in the school; 3.) use of accommodation in the school; 4.) applying for accommodation. </p>
<p>If someone reads so slowly that doing tests is a consistent problem, it's very likely that teachers would recommend that someone be evaluated for some kind of reading problem.</p>
<p>So wait, forgive my ignorance, would reading too slowly be a learning disability? if so, how slowly would one need to read to qualify? I realize the procedures through which we draw the line in the status quo because I read the links you posted on page 4, but i'm not sure about WHY we do it this way and whether we ought to include more people or not. Once again, does somebody have a link to one of those studies discussing this question that we were talking about earlier?</p>
<p>If there is extra time for stupid people, then it's only fair that College Board institutes a less time policy for intelligent people.</p>
<p>^^^^^ Now how absurd would that be?</p>
<p>"There is no extra time in life", that is not true. If you are researching a cure for cancer or analyzing a corporate takeover, it's not how fast you can do it, it's IF you can do it. Extra time gives students with a learning disability the time to show what they know, real life will do that too! It is no different than allowing a student needing eye glasses to wear them. My son has an IQ of 147 and yet he has a profound learning disabilty. He reads much slower and did not learn to read until he was nine although he had and 11th grade vocab. He has worked his butt off day in and day out to live up to his potential. He did not make the honor role until 5th grade, but he graduated with a 4.0GPA. I had to deal with people who thought it was wrong for him to be gifted and have an IEP. This is because many people do not understand learning disabilities. He will be attending an Ivy League school in the fall, but it wasn't because he had extra time, it is because the extra time allowed an accurate reflection of his ability. Many gifted people have learning disabiliies, they deserve an equal chance to excell!</p>
<p>max:</p>
<p>
[quote]
would reading too slowly be a learning disability?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Reading very slowly could be indicative of a learning disability. The person who reads very slowly would have to be evaluated to determine whether there is a disability. How slowly, I don't know, as I'm not a reading specialist/special educator.</p>
<p>2G1C4L:</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is extra time for stupid people, then it's only fair that College Board institutes a less time policy for intelligent people.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is no extra time for stupid people. There is, however, extra time for those with disabilities which require extra time.</p>
<p>As happy4him points out, someone can be gifted and still have a learning disability. It's not uncommon at all. (There's a reason CTY -- Center for Talented Youth -- has sessions for parents at their family academic conferences about "twice exceptional" children.) Someone can be gifted and blind, someone can be gifted and deaf, someone can be gifted and autistic, someone can be gifted and have a mental illness, someone can be gifted and have brain cancer. And someone can be gifted and have a learning disability.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A learning disability is a neurological disorder. In simple terms, a learning disability results from a difference in the way a person's brain is "wired." Children with learning disabilities are as smart or smarter than their peers. But they may have difficulty reading, writing, spelling, reasoning, recalling and/or organizing information if left to figure things out by themselves or if taught in conventional ways.
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[quote]
Fifteen percent of the U.S. population, or one in seven Americans, has some type of learning disability, according to the National Institutes of Health.
Difficulty with basic reading and language skills are the most common learning disabilities. As many as 80% of students with learning disabilities have reading problems.
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<p>From <a href="Http://ldonline.org/ldbasics/whatisld%5B/url%5D">Http://ldonline.org/ldbasics/whatisld</a></p>
<p>As only a doctor can properly diagnose symptoms of various diseases, only a physician who is a learning specialist can diagnose a learning disabilities.</p>
<p>As I recall, one of the sypmtoms of a possible LD is a discrepancy between a verbal IQ and a performance IQ. A person needs an above average verbal IQ in order to have an LD. "Stupid" people (low verbal IQ) would not display that symptom.</p>
<p>Many students who "don't like school," or "don't like reading" probably have a learning difference, similar to the phenomena that many students who are "bright, but don't apply themselves," or "don't pay attention in class," or "daydream too much in class" are probably undiagnosed ADHD.</p>
<p>I'm dyslexic. I was diagnosed with dyslexia in 3rd grade, at that i was not thinking about getting extra time on standardized tests. I dounderstand both sides of the argument.</p>
<p>Someone who has a well documented disorder should get the extra time. I would say that i spend much longer on my home work than my friends, and thats because it takes me longer to do the reading. So if i need spend hours extra a night on my homework then it is reasonable to give me extra time on standardized tests. There is a difference between being stupid and having a learning disability. I have a 4.0 GPA so clearly im not stupid, i just need a little extra time to read.</p>
<p>I get time and a half on the tests and i am still very pressured for time. If someone really needs the extra time and college bored gives them the right amount of time then there is still time pressure. </p>
<p>I really do not care if there is and astric or not next to my name for having extra time. Colleges are very accommodating with disabilities and when they see that i have done well, even if i need a little extra time, they will not hold it against me.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are so many kids who do not need the extra time and get it. If someone gets diagnosed with a disability at the beginning of their JR year then it is probably just for standardized tests. College board needs to be stricter about who they give extra time too.</p>
<p>My experience is that college board is very strict about how they find a person eligible for extra time. Most students have years, some, like my son, have more than a decade of documentation. There is a lot of excellent information in this thread, but some real disinformation as well. Sometimes people aren't aware another student has accomidations until then. Many people are private with the info because, like here, people think it is a mental retardation of sorts. As a parent I can tell you that navigating a childs education who has a learning disability and is also gifted is a huge challenge. Right before my sons SAT II's a new administrator decided to "graduate" my son from the IEP program because he was at the top of his class. The idiot did not know a thing about learning disabilities, he did not know the law, and he sure as hell did not know me. I set him straight in a hurry. He almost messed up his extra time on the SAT II's which are required by the Ivy's. Count your blessings if you or your child does not have a learning disabilty. We would all trade the extra time, for years of less work and struggle.</p>
<p>k9lead you are an ignorant, stupid, elitist ******bag. I was posing a question and making my argument to an important concept that exists in our society, and all you can do is attempt to debase this discussion with pointless and futile personal attacks. Yes, I occasionally make spelling mistakes because I do not spend much time spell-checking on a forum, when you get the point anyway. Also on that point, I am sure I did better on the verbal sections of the SATs and will probably attend a better college and do better in life than you, since you seem to lack one of the most important skills of all--and no I do not simply mean intelligence, but rather people skills. So maybe you should be checked for a learning disability--that is retardation.</p>
<p>Finally as people have already mentioned and no one has addressed, where do we draw the line between stupid people and those with learning disabilities. It is possible to read slower naturally and not because of a disability. Also for those who talk about intelligence, sometimes the pace at which you accomplish tasks can be as indicative of your intellect as your ultimate results.</p>