Extra Time on the SATS is a Joke

<p>Hmm.
I see the flaw in the system...</p>

<p>So If I go to a doctor and pay him $$$
he can say that I have ADHD right?
so I can get extra time?</p>

<p>I think no matter what mental illness he/she has a standardized test is a
standardized test. You can't bend the rules. Then international students
should get extra time as well since english isn't their first language.</p>

<p>If we start bending the rules, there's no end to it because everyone will want an advantage. (including me :() </p>

<p>Yeah.. I got about 2100 on my SAT and I think if I had extra time I would have gotten about 2200's... because on the reading, math and essay *** I ran out of time....</p>

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In life there is no extra time. I have used this analogy many times and I think it is essentially the basis for my opinion.

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<p>Ah, but life isn't like an SAT testing session. There are many, many skills and talents and abilities (you might even call them different types of intelligences) that are needed in life or can be useful in life that are not measured by the SAT, which is why colleges have deemphasized the SAT in favor of other factors.</p>

<p>I'm not sure you will know who Stephen Cannell is--he wrote and produced "The Rockford Files" and many other very popular shows. Just to let you all know--he is dyslexic and because there were no accommodations back in his day, he actually flunked one year and had to repeat a grade. There are thousands of brilliant people with learning disabilities. Many of you have such a limited take on what comprises intelligence and creativity I fear you will not be so happy when you get to college. They are much more appreciative of big thinkers rather than speedy testers. Some of you may find you are soon to be evaluated on much more important criteria, and no amount of speed and rote memorization skills will help.</p>

<p>Above, it was stated: "Maybe a student with that disability would be better off getting that worse SAT score, going to that worse college and working on developing himself to his maximum potential. Because for that person, never again will he get this benefit of extra time in life and he/she needs to learn to cope with that." Where do I start?? 1) People with disabilities often have such high IQs that they will never get to "his maximum potential" unless they are at the top schools in the country. That's the point of addressing their testtaking disparities. 2) Most colleges offer the same extended time that high schools do, so there is no obstacle to that LD student doing equally well in college. </p>

<p>And in real life, many highly placed professions do not require answers to be bubbled in under timed conditions. Some reading/writing heavy careers might require extra time (a professor who spends 8 hours grading essays rather than 5) but those with LDs are used to working longer and harder than their peers and compensate.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I am reading a lot of sour grapes from frustrated kids who don't like their SAT numbers and feel cheated. You have a right to feel that way if other students are really cheating. But if they have legitimate disabilities, just be grateful you don't have to suffer with those sorts of challenges in life.</p>

<p>^ I completely agree. Be happy you don't have a disability, work hard and improve your score even if your peers have to cheat to do so. Wouldn't it be great to get a 2300 without cheating while the people you know who cheated can get it only through extra time?</p>

<p>I go to a small, very prestigious boarding school on the west coast, and about 1/4 of my grade gets extra time. It's interesting, too, because most of those kids are from the wealthiest families at the school. About half of those kids get extra time on the SAT. Interestingly enough, these kids make up most of my class's top 25 percent rankings.</p>

<p>I'm good friends with a lot of them, and I know that they abuse the system. They've told me themselves that they don't need extra time, and I know that they don't. I really despise the extra time system. This may be an isolated description of the problem with extra time, but it's definitely common among the upper class.</p>

<p>I'm sure if you looked at private schools in the nation's wealthy areas, extra time would be most common there. There are articles that depict this about the private schools in DC.</p>

<p>^ The College Board better watch things like this if it wants to maintain its ridiculous worldwide monopoly on standardized testing and education. IMO there should be some kind of panel or independent review board that just investigates semi-random things like this.</p>

<p>I know alot of kid (rich by the way) who pay a fee and get a note to get extended time. There has to be some type of change to the system.
Also the highest score I know of on the ACT just happened to come from someone who got extra time (the guy did much better on the ACT than the SAT).</p>

<p>I understand it for the kids who have dyslexia or serious processing speed deficiencies--stuff where the actual sensory information gets to the brain late or incorrect. </p>

<p>But the ACT is partically a measure of thinking speed and focus, so honestly, the ADD kids really shouldn't get it. If they have extreme difficulty in focusing, well, that is what the ACT is measuring in the first place! The whole point is to messure what you are naturally worse at. Giving ADD kids extended time is like saying "We are measuring all of you on your ability to focus. Except if you are REALLY bad at focusing, then you get free points".</p>

<p>I am naturally slower at typing things into calculaters--I don't get extended time for it.</p>

<p>^^^ completely agree with above post. Extra time does not really matter on the SAT as much as it does on the ACT because the only difficulty of the ACT is the time pressure. It is a speed reading tests, while the SAT is more knowledge/"aptitude" based. Also, someone said that people posting on here are a bunch of low scoring people, and thats not true, I got a 33 on my act and that is plenty fine for me, I just know alot of kids that have 30-35s that should really have 26-30s due to extra time. Removing time pressure from the ACT would like removing the questions rated "difficult" from the SATs for the people in remedial classes because they "didnt learn how to do xyz in school".</p>

<p>EDIT: the most they should do (I do not agree with, but just to be Politically correct) is give the kids like, 5 extra minutes instead of 30-60 extra minutes because that completely removes the time pressure. If the time was adjusted to compensate for their LD instead of just removing that factor completely, it would be more stomachable.</p>

<p>i use to think that giving extra time on SAT was unfair until i realized that when these kids with learning disabilities grow up to be older and are looking for jobs, they are going to have to compete with people of equal or more aptitude and employers will probably not hire them.</p>

<p>u don't get unfair advantages in life as a reward for mental ineptitude so u shouldn't on standardized tests either...y should someone with less mental ability get an advantage on a test that is suppose to represent their academic potential?...it is ridiculous</p>

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<p>Actually, their mental ability has to be above average in order to qualify for extra time. The problem is in the ability to interpret what they are reading, or respond with writing, or some other processing problem. A person who "tests out" at average or below average intelligence is not as eligible for extra time.</p>

<p>I know this will be irrelevant to most people on the list, but studies have been done to determine the effect of extra time on test performance. Students with a verified learning difference performed significantly better with extra time, while students without a verified learning difference (the "normal" kids) did not show a significant increase in performance when given additional time.</p>

<p>Yes, yes, I know you all have at least one example of someone who could/would/has done better with extra time, but as a rule it doesn't really help. If indeed some people are "buying" extra time with bogus doctor notes (not that easy to do), the data show that it isn't doing them much good.</p>

<p>the doctors, act people, and sat people all know this situation way better than you and decided it worked.</p>

<p>stop b - hing</p>

<p>No, the doctors and college board looked at it as a way to make more $$$$ and shut up the b-ing parents</p>

<p>"I know this will be irrelevant to most people on the list, but studies have been done to determine the effect of extra time on test performance. Students with a verified learning difference performed significantly better with extra time, while students without a verified learning difference (the "normal" kids) did not show a significant increase in performance when given additional time."</p>

<p>On most tests, that is true. Not on the ACT though. Anyone with extended time on the ACT would get significantly improved scores.</p>

<p>
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Anyone with extended time on the ACT would get significantly improved scores.

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<p>Not if the person with extended time reads more slowly because of dyslexia or has motor skill problems that made filling in bubbles and writing more slowly than those without these problems. </p>

<p>Callow youth, enjoy the fact that you do not know what it is like to have an issue that requires extra time on tests, that your parents have not had to advocate for accommodation for a handicap! I hope you outgrow the foolishness you spout here, and gain some understanding and compassion of the very real challenges that some others face. Do not deny those who do need accommodation of it because of the cheating that others may do to receive it when they have no need of it.</p>

<p>owlice you are totally missing everyones point here. The simple fact is that they are being given an unfair advantage simply because they have an inherent mental deficiency of some kind, which will never be advantagous in the real world or in most academic situations. If someone is naturally a slow reader, they do not get extra time. Yet, if they have some mental condition that causes this all of a sudden they do. Who is this fair too? Whatever someone says the SATs/ACTs whether right or wrong are meant to measure intellegence and scholastic aptitude nationally, and that only really works if it measures everyone equally without someone receiving an advantage. Also for anyone saying posers agreeing with me are just unsatisfied with their score, you are really missing the issue. I got a 2270, I am plenty hapy, but that does not mean I will overlook an obvious absurdidty in the system</p>

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<p>I'll speak slowly and avoid using big words.
1. A learning difference is not a "mental deficiency," it is a mental difference. The only time it is a "deficiency" is in specific academic circumstances.
2. To reliably measure the "things" that the SAT are supposed to measure in someone with a certified, legitimate learning difference, they need to be provided with extra time. This has been studied, documented and verified.
3. "..which will never be advantageous in the real world..." I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but learning differences very rarely impede people in work or social environments, only in certain academic environments.
4. There is nothing "all of a sudden" about the policy. It has been developed over many years, and includes much research and federal legislation.
5. If a person is blind, they can take the test either orally or in braille. Do you think that this also is not "fair"?
6. One more time: Studies show that for people without a legitimate learning difference, performance does not improve when they are given extra time. This is not an opinion, a story based on a "friend who," common sense or what "sounds right/fair." It's based on research.
7. Part of becoming an adult is understanding that when most people want to be treated "fairly," they usually are saying "gimmee."
8. Now that I have finished this and have checked it for spelling and grammar (a suggestion you may want to follow), I realized I have used some big words. Sorry 'bout that.</p>

<p>Bescraze, I'm not "missing the point." You have revealed through your posts here that you are quite ignorant about the topic you are trying to discuss. Read this thread: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/527332-ask-not-ask-sat-accommodations.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/527332-ask-not-ask-sat-accommodations.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Then read this: Students</a> with Disabilities</p>

<p>And this: Application</a> Process</p>

<p>And follow the links on those pages to learn more about how accommodations decisions are made by the College Board, and why.</p>

<p>It's not as easy as "getting a piece of paper" from a doctor.</p>

<p>Not that I really believe actual facts will dissuade you from your uninformed opinion, but perhaps others reading this thread will be more interested in finding out why and how accommodations are made than you are.</p>

<p>"The simple fact is that they are being given an unfair advantage simply because they have an inherent mental deficiency of some kind,"</p>

<p>seriously bescraze?!? you are nothing but an uptight individual and hypocrite. students with disabilites are given the extra time in order to LEVEL the playing field so that their mental disability does not hinder their chance of succeeding on the test and being given the same opportunities as an able-minded individual</p>

<p>i think it is grossly disgusting with how much vigor you have asserted to makin a ludicrous point and it must take an incredibly shallow minded and feeble person to complain about such an arbitrary complaint</p>