Extremely torn (NYU v. Michigan)

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I've posted before about this, but I'm facing a deadline to make my law school decision--I've gotten it down to two places (provided Harvard doesn't take me after deferring me...unlikely, I know) and I'm really unsure what I should do.</p>

<p>I'm interested in affordable housing and land use law. Both schools have clinics where I could do landlord-tenant and community development work.At NYU, there are several professors who specialize in this, and there's a Real Estate and Urban Policy research center and a study abroad program in a place I'd really like to go. UMich doesn't have these advantages--in fact, their only land use/housing professor in the law school is going to NYU next year--but I've been accepted for a joint degree in their highly-regarded school of urban planning, so in an extra year (with the tuition for the masters covered) I could have a JD and an MUP. This would give me more courses in housing and urban planning, including studio classes, and would allow me to TA (I don't know if I'm interested in teaching but this seems like a good way to find out, and the dual degree could help if I went on the academic job market). But, of course, it's one more year in school and one less year at work. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing for me! </p>

<p>I live in a college town now, though it's about 1/4 of the size of Ann Arbor. While I'm a bit sad about leaving my friends and family on the east coast, I know that I could come home for the summers, and I like the idea of being able to ride my bike safely around town, and be able to live in a spacious and affordable and walking-distance-from-campus apartment. But living in New York sounds fine too.</p>

<p>Cost-wise they're about equal: the additional interest accruing on loans while doing the MUP, the slightly lower summer public interest stipends, the increased cost of moving halfway across the country, and the loss of summer income since I'd be doing summer-start at michigan (which is also a pro/con thing...starting law school 10 days after commencement sounds like a drag, but a lighter course load at first sounds nice) mean that NYU isn't really any pricier. </p>

<p>I also think rankings are a wash...yeah, NYU's a bit higher, but the judges and hiring partners and such I've talked to seem to respect Michigan just as much if not more. </p>

<p>ANY advice would be really helpful...deciding where to go to college was definitely not this hard. I know that either place will probably work out fine, but I'm definitely stressing.</p>

2

<p>You can't really make a bad decision here. Feel free to go with your gut about where you'd rather live the next three years.</p>

<p>You could also make the decision based on where you want to practice after law school. East Coast firms are probably better represented at NYU at interview time; midwestern firms are probably better represented in Michigan's placement office.</p>

<p>I have very fond memories of the months between law school acceptance and matriculation. That's not a period of my life I would wish to shorten. I personally wouldn't fault you if you went with NYU for no other reason than that one.</p>

<p>If you really can't decide, throw yourself a party, invite your nearest and dearest friends, and announce to them that you're going to decide based on a coin toss. Then toss that coin, and don't look back.</p>

3

<p>you're about the third person to suggest a coin toss (including a parent and a dear friend) but the first to incorporate a party...i kind of like that idea! </p>

<p>i'm comparing the details of LRAPs now, but at this point i do think it will come down to a certain amount of chance.</p>

4

<p>wow, great stuff man, Michigan or NYU Law, that is like BMW or Mercedes</p>

<p>i would take NYU Law, i just think its a notch above michigan....</p>

5

<p>I like the party idea! (Shades of Twinkle's thread, there, Greybeard!)</p>

<p>Could you do just the JD at Michigan if you decided that you don't want the master's? </p>

<p>If you like walking and biking, NYU would still be great for you. Believe it or not, New York is very safe - their per-capita murder rate is much lower than you would expect. If you don't have a car, you might need to get one if you were to go to Michigan.</p>

<p>There's a quality of life issue - for some people, the city is fantastic and the only place they would ever call home. Other people want to know the guy who owns the ice cream store. Which one are you more comfortable in?</p>

<p>Do realize that you could very well end up falling in love with the place you go to law school - trust me, it happens. (My family doesn't know how I became a Southerner.) You might want to end up staying in whatever area you go to school in - or nearby. Or it might just be easier to network in there and take jobs in that area. Where do you see yourself long-term?</p>

<p>All other things being equal, I would say to go for Michigan because you could make it cheaper by avoiding the master's and you would get so much more for your money - the cost of living differential can be great. However, if you're a city person, go for NYU. Here's why: UMich really isn't near any big cities. The local law school grads would probably trump you (all other things being equal) in their home market. If you want to be in Chicago, then go to Northwestern or UChicago. If you want to go back East, go to school there to start with. Both NYU and UMich are certainly stellar schools that can both offer national placement, but it's always easier to get a job near where you live. </p>

<p>I do agree with Greybeard about the time between commencement and law school matriculation. For me, that was about 15 months, and it was fantastic. I was not ready to go to school until about March or April; it wasn't until June that I was chafing at the bit. The fact that UMich has the double-whammy of law school right after commencement and four years (when you'll be tired enough after 1L year!) might make NYU worthwhile. </p>

<p>For what it's worth, NYU seems to have more journals - and ones that would be of interest to you. I highly recommend the journal experience.</p>

<p>Finally, how sure are you about housing law? If it could change and you won't get the master's, save yourself a bunch of money and go for UMich.</p>

6

<p>I must admit that U of M's Law School feels like a different world with the big old buildings and modern library. U of M also offers a summer start option? </p>

<p>However, NYU seems to me a better choice for what you want to do. I would have said the clinics are much stronger at NYU.</p>

7

<p>They are both fine schools. And, if you are allergic to big cities, choose UMichigan. Otherwise, it's an easy choice--NYU. That's assuming the out of pocket cost is the same.</p>

<p>I don't claim to be an expert, but..from what I've seen, there really is a sharp drop in the odds of getting a teaching position in law if you drop from the top 6 to 7-14. I think going to NYU will boost your chances of getting a teaching job post-J.D. a LOT more than that master's degree at UMichigan will. From what I've seen, there are only a couple of master's degrees that help at all. (I'm talking a master's in another subject, not a LLM.) A MBA helps;a master's in public health helps; a master's in a technical subject may help for patent law or intellectual property, a master's of public policy may help get a govenment policy position. To teach in law school, you need a JD and in some fields a JD and a Ph.D. A master's isn't going to impress anyone. A LOT of people in law school ALREADY have master's degrees before they start. It's just not that uncommon a credential. To teach in college, at least as more than an adjunct, you're going to have to get a Ph.D. </p>

<p>Now, if you are talking about working in a non-legal capacity and/or teaching in some environment other than a law school, then getting the master's may help. But, it's really NOT going to help get a teaching job from what I've seen. Making law review and getting high grades in law school will be a LOT more helpful in getting a teaching job than getting a master's degree will be. Given a choice between someone who made law review at either UMich OR NYU and someone who didn't, but has a master's degree, a law school is going to pick the law review candidate 99 times out of 100. It may be old-fashioned, but law schools hire junior faculty based on their performance in law school--not master's degrees in other subjects.</p>

<p>IMO, the contacts you'll make through the clinical programs at NYU are more likely to land you an entry level attorney job in your field of interest than a master's degree. </p>

<p>I may not be explaining well, but, again, just based on my anecdotal experience and looking at what my kid's friends have done, the hiring attorney at some public interest organization is going to be more concerned with your clinical experience working in the field than with a master's degree. If you're interested in teaching, dropping from CCN to 7-14 will hurt. The only reason to get that master's is if what you really want to do is work as a policy wonk for some sort of think tank organization and not really practice law. </p>

<p>NYU's clinical programs in your area of interest are really excellent. IMO, you'd be foolish to pass them up to get a master's degree if you want to practice law. If you want to teach, you're still better off at NYU.</p>

8

<p>Normally I'd say NYU, but with that offer Michigan is giving you I'd have to say U of M.</p>

9

<p>In terms of quality, both Law schools are identical. But in terms of overall experience, those two universities are completely different. And it seems that in terms of actual academics, they would also be different. Go with whichever school fits your interests and your lifestyle better.</p>

10

<p>i did it! i decided! i'm going to Michigan. I'm excited, but mostly relieved to get to start planning the next couple years instead of worrying about them.</p>

<p>thank you all so much for your advice.</p>

11

<p>Michigan is a great school, and Ann Arbor is a great town. I'm sure you'll love it there.</p>