ez schools to get into are highly ranked on USnews

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<li><p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology </p>

<li>Stanford University (CA) </li>
<li>University of California–Berkeley </li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign<br></li>
<li>University of Michigan–Ann Arbor<br></li>
<li>University of Southern California (Andrew and Erna Viterbi)<br></li>
<li>California Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University ¶ </li>
<li>Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN) </li>
<li>University of California–San Diego (Jacobs)<br></li>
<li>Cornell University (NY) </li>
</ol></li>
</ol>

<p>I got into Cornell Early decision. but UCSD, purdue, carnegie mellon, and more are above cornell on this list but are easier schools to get into. What’s up with that?</p>

<p>I know these are graduate schools but still…</p>

<p>Should I go to UIUC (rank4) for graduate school after cornell (rank12) undergrad? But that seems completely ridiculous.</p>

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<p>these rankings are based on specific departments. it is true that UIUC has a very competitive engineering department. But if you compare the schools based on overall difficulty (in all areas) then cornell would be much higher than UIUC.</p>

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<p>Then I should also point out that Yale's engineering program is ranked about 50, lower than about 40-50 schools that are much easier to get into. Yet, even the average engineer at Cornell, Michigan, or CMU has little or no chance of getting into Yale's undergraduate engineering program. </p>

<p>Anyways, the point is, for undergrad, don't get too concerned about these rankings. Graduate school is an entirely different matter, though.</p>

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<p>Getting into CMU may be easier since it's really only well known in technical and theater circles, thus lowering the number of applicants and increasing the emphasis on technical aspects while keeping the number of admits relatively simlar. On the other hand, Yale has a HUGE applicant pool for a small number of seats as well as a 'well rounded' type emphasis. Thus, harder to get in.</p>

<p>Also, remember the oft-repeated saying - Cornell may be the easiest Ivy to get into, but it's the hardest to come out of :). Don't worry about the rankings..just worry about the quality of teaching and the opportunities available to you.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>how many years is graduate school?</p>

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<p>"Also, remember the oft-repeated saying - Cornell may be the easiest Ivy to get into, but it's the hardest to come out of . Don't worry about the rankings..just worry about the quality of teaching and the opportunities available to you."</p>

<p>why didn't i hear more of this before my college admissions process?</p>

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<p>Well, the second sentence wasn't supposed to mean that Cornell's teaching isn't of a ihgh quality. Rather, don't worry that Cornell may be ranked lower than other schools because its teaching is, from what I hear, excellent.</p>

<p>As to it being the harderst to come out of, lots of competition for top grades...this can be both a good thing and a bad thing!</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Cornell is easier to get in than Dartmouth? Out of the Ivies, Dartmouth is the one that I know the least about. How competitive is it?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Should I go to UIUC (rank4) for graduate school after cornell (rank12) undergrad? But that seems completely ridiculous.

[/quote]

For graduate school, only the quality of your department matters, so yes you would find quite a lot of people who would turn down Cornell to attend UIUC, because it has a better name in a lot of Engineering fields like EE.</p>

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<p>Will going to Cornell undergrad as opposed to UCLA give me an advantage in getting into other top notch graduate schools?</p>

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<p>Evanescenteuphoria, in answer to your original post, that just goes to show you how different graduate and undergraduate programs really are. </p>

<p>As pointed out by aurelius, the Yale engineering program is ranked somewhere in the 40's, and the Harvard engineering program is ranked in the 20's. Yet I think that for undergrad, very few people are going to turn down Harvard or Yale for, say, USC unless USC is offering a juicy merit scholarship. </p>

<p>Or think about medical school. Stanford Medical and Yale Medical are ranked lower then the med school at WU St Louis, Johns Hopkins and even the University of Washington. Yet for undergrad, how many people are really going to turn down Stanford or Yale for Johns Hopkins or WU St. louis or UWashington? </p>

<p>The point is, when you're an undergrad, worry about undergrad quality. When you're a graduate student, that's when you should worry about graduate quality. </p>

<p>I would also question 2 of your premises that you laid forth in your original post. You said that the easy schools to get into are higher ranked. Well, are they really easy to get into. Again, keep in mind that you listed the graduate rankings. I would not say that the UIUC is easier to get into for graduate engineering school than Cornell is. For undergrad, yeah, UIUC is easier to get into than Cornell, but for grad? I don't know about that. While I don't know which one is easier to get into, I will point out that UIUC grad eng students have a higher average GRE score than do Cornell grad eng students, and UIUC admits a lower percentage of candidates than does Cornell. Now I agree that this doesn't prove that UIUC is more selective than is Cornell, but it also means there is no evidence that I am aware of that Cornell is more selective than UIUC. The point is, just because a particular undergrad program of one school is less selective than another doesn't mean that the graduate program is also less selective. Again, I would point out that it is easier to get into Johns Hopkins than into Yale for undergrad, but the reverse is true for medical school. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Should I go to UIUC (rank4) for graduate school after cornell (rank12) undergrad? But that seems completely ridiculous.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know if you realize just how arrogant this statement is. Look, there are PLENTY of Cornell undergrad engineering students and alumni who can only DREAM of going to the #4th ranked engineering graduate school. Heck, some of them can't even make it to any graduate program at all. So here you are flippantly talking about how you think it's ridiculous that a Cornell student would end up going to UIUC for grad school, yet here are all these Cornell people who only wish they had that choice available to them. </p>

<p>Look, not everybody who goes to Cornell for undergrad ends up going to a top graduate school. Going to Cornell doesn't "entitle" you to a spot in the graduate programs of UIUC or Cornell or any graduate school at all. If you want to get to a top graduate program, you are going to have to do well at Cornell. Plenty of people at Cornell don't do well. Let's face it. If you're pulling a 2.5 at Cornell, you're not going to be able to get into a quality graduate program. Heck, you may not be able to get into any graduate program at all. There are a LOT of engineering undergrads at Cornell who end up with around a 2.5. </p>

<p>Yet at least the guy with the 2.5 managed to graduate with an engineering degree. There are other students at Cornell who don't even manage to do that. Not engineering student at Cornell manages to graduate with that degree. Some of them will change majors because they find that engineering is too hard. Some will transfer to an entirely different school because they find that Cornell is too hard. And some just manage to flunk out completely. </p>

<p>The point is, just because you're admitted as a Cornell engineering student doesn't mean that you're going to get into a top graduate program later. It doesn't mean that you're going to get into even a no-name graduate program. Heck, it doesn't even mean that you're even going to finish the engineering degree at all. So I'd be careful about what you call 'ridiculous'. </p>

<p>As a case in point, here is the Cornell 2004 senior survey that lists the plans of Cornell bachelor's degree recipients. It doesn't talk about where the engineers go for graduate school, but it does show where people go for law or med school. As you can see, some of the law schools that are most frequently attended by Cornellians are no-name law schools. Yes, there are some big names like Harvard Law but then there is also Albany Law School. SUNY-Buffalo Law. St. John's Law. Let's face it. These aren't exactly the most prestigious law schools in the world. And yet I'm sure there are other Cornellians who couldn't even get into those law schools. If a lot of Cornellians end up in no-name law schools, that must mean that a lot of Cornellians end up in no-name grad engineering schools, or no graduate program at all. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/PostGradSurveys/CCSPstGradRept04.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/PostGradSurveys/CCSPstGradRept04.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Nor is this unusual for Cornell. I know people who went to Harvard for undergrad who could only get into no-name graduate programs.</p>

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<p>The ranking has little to do with the entrance difficulty. I wonder how many grad schools actually are harder to get into than Caltech for example.</p>

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<p>thank you very much, sakky, for that detailed and informative post.</p>

<p>another question i have relates a little farther in the future: after graduate school and the real world. Do employers even care much about undergraduate? For instance, if I were to go to UCLA (which I considered my 2nd choice after cornell and consider to be a much healthier and pleasant place to be for 4 years) and go to Stanford for 2 years graduate school instead of going to 4 years of Cornell then stanford, would that make a difference? Employers just look at the graduate school right?</p>

<p>I know the work loads at cornell and UCLA are different but still the atmosphere, weather, and beautiful women definitely are a plus for me to choose UCLA over cornell for undergrad. MUCH cheaper tuition also.</p>

<p>So why don't I go to UCLA instead of Cornell if i get the same grades? disregard the possibility of getting a more challenging and preparing education at cornell. lets talk about landing a job.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
another question i have relates a little farther in the future: after graduate school and the real world. Do employers even care much about undergraduate? For instance, if I were to go to UCLA (which I considered my 2nd choice after cornell and consider to be a much healthier and pleasant place to be for 4 years) and go to Stanford for 2 years graduate school instead of going to 4 years of Cornell then stanford, would that make a difference? Employers just look at the graduate school right?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course the presumption here is that you will actually be able to get into Stanford for graduate school, which is far from certain. As stated in my last post, you can't presume that you will be able to get into any graduate school at all. Nobody can. </p>

<p>However, if we presume that you do get into graduate school, then it is true that graduate school tends to overshadow undergrad. </p>

<p>
[quote]
So why don't I go to UCLA instead of Cornell if i get the same grades? disregard the possibility of getting a more challenging and preparing education at cornell. lets talk about landing a job.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But that just elicits the following question - will you actually get the same grades? The biggest problem with lesser schools is the social factor. Human beings are social creatures and tend to copy what they see around them. When you're surrounded by hard working studious people, you tend to want to become hard working and studious yourself. However, when you're surrounded by lazy students, you tend to become lazy yourself. I know that even a school like Berkeley has plenty of lazy students. Not all, not even the majority, but still, there are a lot. I'm sure UCLA will have the same. </p>

<p>Furthermore, it is also true that for the purposes of MS or PhD programs, grades are not the only thing that matter. Far from it, in fact. The quality of your program will matter. The truth is, Cornell is a better undergrad engineering school than UCLA is, and that will provide you with an edge if you want to get admitted to a MS or PhD program. This is not like law school or med-school that are GPA-whores. Engineering grad programs do actually look beyond the GPA.</p>

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<p>is it necessary to go to graduate school for engineering?
will going to graduate school give you a better chance of getting a high paying job?</p>

<p>basically: what are the main reasons one would and would not go to graduate school?</p>

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<p>MS degrees are almost becoming the entry-level engineering degree, since you can't do much with just a BS degree besides testing and verification.</p>

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<p>Is it really that hard to grasp the fact that selectivity does not equal rank?</p>

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<p>Congratulations evanescenteuphoria you will get one of the best engineering educations in the country. Don't worry about the teaching quality or the opportunity. If you try hard, they will all come to you. Just be prepared to face some of the hardest classes in your life. Cornell isn't really that hard to graduate, unless you are an engineer.</p>

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<p>"Cornell isn't really that hard to graduate, unless you are an engineer"</p>

<p>yes, i am worried now</p>

<p>but bring it. </p>

<p>I challenge Cornell with...</p>

<p>770satmath
800math2
800physics
800chemistry</p>

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<p>You'll do fine. I just finished first semester and it wasn't as hard as I expected.</p>