<p>I had the same thought--the op may have been too uncomfortable to continue to post and that seems unfair given her situation. this is not the place to judge but to support</p>
<p>OK so my daughter is a senior and has already applied to colleges so what we have to work with is one LAC in the top tier that is a FAFSA only school and one LAC in the second tier that you can submit the css or the colleges own fa supplement. On the css site for the second tier school it says under noncustodial parent NO. (Most of the schools listed on the css site says non custodial parent YES.) Doesn't this mean they won't look at the non custodial parent income? Forgive me but I still don't understand why this is different from the FAFSA only school?
The reason I have not responded sooner is that I am preparing for the meeting with the two attorneys and my soon to be ex. This is time consuming and emotional. My daughter wants to revisit many of the colleges that has accepted her and I'm trying to point her in the right direction for a good outcome.
Anyone know for the fafsa only school what income will qualify for FA (Taking into consideration alimony) I'm not going to ask for child support if he will pay for private college.</p>
<p>Some schools may not have you do the non-custodial form using the profile but may have their own form.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that many "deep pocket" schools calculates your financial aid using a combination of both the federal and institutional methodologies.</p>
<p>Two distinct formulas assess information reported in the aid application process. The traditional institutional methodology (IM), developed by the College Board and refined annually by economists and aid administrators, determines the expected family share of costs. IM is the dominant standard among selective national colleges. Most schools that use an institutional methodology to disburse their own funds use either the CSS profile or their own FA form.</p>
<p>The federal methodology (FM) through the filing of determines eligibility for federal aid. All schools require students who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents to at minimum file the FAFSA if they are requesting FA. The only thing the FAFSA does is determine one's ability for federal aid, (pell grants, seog, stafford and perkins loans).</p>
<p>Differences between the IM and FM models include:</p>
<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>
<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>
<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>
<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>
<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>
<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>
<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>
<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>
<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>
<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>
<p>applicantmum, I am glad you are still with us! Sorry the thread got off track. I do not know exactly what the cut off amount on the FAFSA is for financial aid, however, they do not look at whether you own a home...I get child support and a small amount of alimony, and my student has done well with the FAFSA. They want to know about all income, also child support.
I hope that someone else can tell you what the cutoff amount is...for FA....also I hope that someone can tell you more about the CSS.</p>
<p>There is not really a cut off as such. You can run your numbers through an EFC calculator such as the one at finaid.org
<a href="http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml</a></p>
<p>The EFC produced by FAFSA is deducted from the school COA to arrive at your 'need'. The 'need' is the figure on which your aid is based. From there aid may be a combination of grants (federal for low income, institutional, and possibly State), loans, Work Study and possibly a gap (where the need met is less than the need).</p>
<p>As far as federal grant money is concerned your EFC has to be fairly low to qualify. An EFC of below @4041 is required to qualify for even a partial Pell grant. Other federal grants such as ACG, SEOG, SMART and some State grants require Pell eligibility. Other than grants federal aid consists of loans (subsidized or unsubsidized) and work study. It is unlikely that federal aid would meet the cost of a private school so you really need to find out what sort of institutional grants may be available. FAFSA only schools use FAFSA to calculate need for their institutional aid. CSS/profile schools use FAFSA for calculating federal aid and CSS for calculating their own institutional aid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hope that someone else can tell you what the cutoff amount is...for FA
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As swimcatsmom stated there is no "cutoff" amount. Financial aid is based on the following premise:</p>
<p>The student's Financial Need is determined by subtracting their EFC from the cost of education. </p>
<p>Need is defined as the difference between the cost of attendance at a particular institution and the family's ability to pay for those costs. The amount your family is expected to pay is commonly referred to as Expected Family Contribution, or EFC. The difference between the cost and the EFC is called "financial need."</p>
<p>Cost of Attendance
- Expected Family Contribution (EFC)
= Financial Need</p>
<p>While the cost of attendance varies from school to school, in theory, your Expected Family Contribution will remain constant. So your need for assistance will vary depending on the cost of attendance. If your EFC is less than the amount it costs to attend a particular school, then you will be eligible for need-based financial aid programs. But if your EFC is greater than or equal to the cost of attendance, you will not be eligible for assistance from need-based financial aid programs. However, you may be eligible for non-need-based loans. </p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>If you are looking at a school that costs 30,000 and your EFC is 15,000 then your demonstrated need is as follows:</p>
<p>30,000- 15,000 = 15,000 (demonstrated need) Keep in mind that the vast majority of FAFSA only schools do not meet 100% of demonstrated need (they gap). If there is a gap in your financial aid package it is up to you & your family to fill the gap.</p>
<p>Now this 15,000 demonstrated need may be met as a combination of institutional and self help aid. </p>
<p>The college financial aid office will award aid to meet the student's financial need. Because the cost of education varies from college to college, the student's financial need and their aid package will also be different at different colleges. To find out the amount of a financial aid package, the student should contact the college or university financial aid office. </p>
<p>The financial aid package can include grants, scholarships, loans, and student employment. Funding for this aid may be provided by the federal government, the state government, the college's own funds, and from private organizations. </p>
<p>Grants - gift aid based on financial need and does not have to be repaid. Scholarships - gift aid based on merit and does not have to be repaid
Loans - aid which must be repaid, but may be forgiven under specific circumstances Federal unsubsidized loan programs are not need-based, but they nevertheless are an important source of funding for many students and families. These include the Federal Unsubsidized Stafford, Direct Unsubsidized, Federal PLUS, and Direct PLUS loans. </p>
<p>To receive a Pell Grant, a student must have financial need. The Expected Family Contribution (EFC) formula is the standard formula used in determining financial need for FSA programs. The formula produces an EFC number.</p>
<p>The maximum Pell Grant award for the 2007-08 award year (July 1, 2007 to June 30, 2008) is $4,310. The maximum award for the 2008-09 award year (July 1, 2008 to June 30, 2009) is $4,731. The maximum can change each award year and depends on program funding.</p>
<p>The closer you are to a "0" EFC, the larger the amount of your pell grant will be. The maximum EFC a student could have and still qualify for a Pell Grant also increased to 4110. The minimum award amount remains at $400. </p>
<p>Education</a> Department Releases 2007-08 Pell Grant Payment And Disbursement Tables</p>
<p>So basically, if your EFC is more than 4110, you will not be eligible for PELL.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So basically, if your EFC is more than 4110, you will not be eligible for PELL.
[/quote]
Oddly the EFC maximum for Pell for 2008-2009 has gone down to 4041 though the maximum Pell has gone up. I would love to know how they figure these things out.</p>
<p>Wow, I am really impressed by you guys! You really know your stuff, swimcat and sybbie! Very useful and helpful info.</p>
<p>Thank you all! I feel like I have my own personal financial aid officer! I think I'm starting to get it. My daughter has agreed to do an overnite at her fafsa only school. Why do they make this all so complicated? Her fafsa only school has a very large endowment; does that usually translate into generous institutional grant aid? I'm confused as to why this school does not use the css profile or their own institutional form.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Her fafsa only school has a very large endowment; does that usually translate into generous institutional grant aid? I'm confused as to why this school does not use the css profile or their own institutional form.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not necessarily. Many schools will use merit aid in order to provide a "discount" to and woo full freight paying families.</p>
<p>I saw from your previous posts that your D has been accepted to Denison (congratulations).</p>
<p>Denison states:</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>The information filed on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) is used in a formula established by the U.S. Congress that calculates an Expected Family Contribution (EFC). The EFC is an amount that the family is expected to contribute toward the educational costs for that academic year. *Denison uses federal methodology to determine federal need. Federal need is computed by subtracting the EFC from the total cost of attendance. The difference is the federal need. In cases of high federal need, Denison is unable to meet 100% of federal need.
*
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>Denison's cost of attendance is 43,430. Guess what, if you are pell grant eligible, you will have a very high financial need.</p>
<p>For example: If you have a "0" EFC (making you full pell grant eligible), your demonstrated need will be the full $43,430</p>
<p>
[quote]
Types of need-based awards administered by Denison that may be on tentative award notifications:</p>
<p>Federal Pell Grant
Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (FSEOG)
Federal Perkins Loan
Federal Work-Study
Federal Direct Loans
Ohio State Grants (Ohio residents)
Denison Grant (need-based)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>for a minute, you have a "0" EFC</p>
<p>Federal Pell Grant - $4731</p>
<p>Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (FSEOG) - this will depend on how much SEOG funds the school has . The average may be somewhere in the $1000 range.</p>
<p>You can receive between $100 and $4,000 a year, depending on when you apply, your financial need, the funding at the school you're attending, and the policies of the financial aid office at your school.</p>
<p>Federal Perkins Loan - $4,000</p>
<p>Federal Work-Study ~$1,500</p>
<p>Federal Direct Loans - $3,500 (subsidized stafford loan)</p>
<p>Ohio State Grants (Ohio residents) Are you a resident?</p>
<p><a href="http://regents.ohio.gov/sgs/%5B/url%5D">http://regents.ohio.gov/sgs/</a></p>
<p>Denison Grant (need-based)</p>
<p>Merit Scholarship $13,000</p>
<p>If you, the parent are not eligible for a PLUS (parent's loan), your child will be able to borrow an additional $4,000 (unsubsidized stafford loan).</p>
<p>So far, your FA package is $26,731 (which includes 7500 in loans) and you have $16,699 in unmet need (you will have to factor in your ohio grant if eligilbe, SEOG grants and how much need based grant $ you can expect)</p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, didn't see the second page when I posted. But as some of my responses to the 1st page posts I think are valid, will leave it.</em></strong></p>
<p>Single parents being penalized due to income allowance is astounding, irritating. Couldn't believe it when first heard of it. I thought something was being changed in the the formula for this or future years however. </p>
<p>It is easy to say 'Put college costs in your divorce agreement' I tried to do this when I got divorced, eons ago, and was looked at as if nuts. At that point, only Mass. considered college in divorce agreements. A post recently had a much longer list of states that now considers college, but it's far less than 50%. Realize too, that your can get all sorts of things written into a legal document, but if the other party chooses to not comply with the agreement, the only recourse is to go back to court, to the tune of perhaps thousands of dollars in legal fees, to MAYBE finally retrieve some of the money promised in that legal document. I know many single parents who have 'shared medical costs' in their agreements, as is state mandated, who have decided is not worth the court fees to go after that money. </p>
<p>What would be fair to all families is to have college costs billed to divorced parents separately, based on ability to pay. But my experience is that it's a one bill system, and the bill falls to the student and the more responsible parent, giving the other a perceived 'option' </p>
<p>Yes, I have benefitted from the FAFSA as a single parent. But I've looked on at the vacations, the house additions, the new cars, etc that most married middle class families see as their right, (at least in my area) while I work plenty hard making dollars stretch and making do. Allowing my kids to have the same educational opportunities as married folk with double incomes has been much appreciated. They've been penalized plenty in the divorce process, please don't resent them. </p>
<p>And many of us who are divorced would have loved to have a working marriage. Addictions and mental health issues, as well as spouses who just plain decide it is 'not fun anymore' and leave you in the dust on their way to the next relationship don't give the option of working on much of anything.</p>
<p>But I've looked on at the vacations, the house additions, the new cars, etc that most married middle class families see as their right, (at least in my area) while I work plenty hard making dollars stretch and making do.</p>
<p>I realize that some areas are much more exclusive, thats why we moved away from where I was raised when we started our family, because we knew we didn't want to even try and keep up, as our income was always going to be closer to the median national household income of $48,201.
My mother who stayed in that area, complains about prices and about the general perception that everyone is making 6 figures, I know that it is pretty annoying to deal with every day.</p>
<p>I see now that if we had stayed there however, the public school system was much better and the standard of living was higher- even if we didn't make as much as the neighbors- but hindsight...</p>
<p>In order to buy an average priced home in my city, households needed almost $90,000 to purchase a place to live. However, I don't know anyone who has remodeled in the last 10 years, the extent of our remodeling of our 107 yr old home has been to put new tile in the single bathroom & hopefully one day we will even get our 30 year old roof replaced.</p>
<p>I think it really does posters who also must juggle expenses a disservice to make the assumption that only single parents struggle with expenses.</p>
<p>Additionally, FAFSA only schools represent most of the instituitions of higher learning in the United States.</p>
<p>Single parents are not obligated to disclose non custodial parent income when applying for aid with schools that only use FAFSA.</p>
<p>There are plenty of others on the boards who are counseling their kids to watch aid & loans when looking at schools. There is no shame in attending one of the hundreds of schools that doesn't charge upwards of $30,000 annual tuition.</p>
<p>great lakes mom--well stated!
your idea that colleges bill each parent for their share based on ability to pay is a great one. seems the opposite is now practed where some colleges actually tell single mom's "we will assure the noncustodial parent that by submitting their info (profile/tax return) that will not make them responsible for any financial support to the student--they will not be billed" they want the ncp documentation so they can offer less fin aid recognizing they are letting fathers off the hook and handing the torch back to custodial parents, (often mothers already managing more of the responsibilities) why reassure them that they won't be required to pay??--why not reinforce that the college expects both parents to contribute. colleges inadvertently are institutionalizing the practice of non-custodial parents not being held accountable in the same manner as custodial parents,(usually mothers). This along with lower income allowance for single parents represent outdated ways for institutions to assess need.</p>
<p>I don't think anyone is saying only single parents struggle financially--we all struggle in our own ways---however emerald I would hope you would consider your own situation as it exists now and then factor in splitting up and supporting two households and getting less of an income allowance -- now that would be harder to deal with wouldn't it?</p>
<p>There is no shame at looking at those schools charging less than $30,000, and I'm the first to say that a CC plus transfer to a state school can equal a fine education. My kids dreamed of more, as did many on CC, and it is wonderful that they are not disallowed due to their parents being divorced. Yes, Seattle and environs is plenty expensive, and the middle class is being squeezed in this country, all of us. Despite FAFSA only, many schools, esp LAC want non custodial parent financial information. </p>
<p>I'm speaking to what I see around me. Middle class people who have the benefit of two incomes having a certain amount of give, after years of working hard and making house payments. Hey, I have more give than I used to, surprisingly, as I can work more with the kids gone. I don't live in a prosperous suburb. This sort of thing varies widely across the country, based on property values, etc. I couldn't afford my current neighborhood, as many of us couldn't were we to buy now. </p>
<p>EK, I know from your posts that your life has not been easy and that you too have needed to live creatively to get you and your kids where they are today. No one is trying to minimize what you have been through. We all have a need to be free to speak from our experience.</p>
<p>Please do not assume that married people do not face economic challenges. I know some very well-to-do single mothers, and some struggling married couples. I don't have new cars, vacations, vacation homes or house additions; I can't afford them.</p>
<p>That said, on to the question of colleges billing divorced parents separately:
The problem is the assumption that billing will make a reticient non-custodial parent pay. If he won't give you or the school the tax information, why would a bill make a difference? (Using dad for illustration purposes; I know there are custodial fathers with deadbeat mothers, too.) And then what is the college supposed to do? You'd yell equally loudly if the college said, "Well, dad didn't pay his share, so kid can't register for next semester." How is that different than saying, "Dad needs to give us his tax information" or "Dad must contribute"? In fact, the separate billing could make it harder on the custodial parent to make up the difference, because she wouldn't necessarily know what has or has not been paid.</p>
<p>Doctors don't split their bill even if the non-custodial parent is responsible for half; grocery stores don't; mortgage companies or landlords don't. Why should only colleges?</p>
<p>The only way for this system to work would be for the college to say, "Dad didn't pay his share of the bill. OK, we'll pick up the slack so we don't penalize the kid." And where is that money supposed to come from? Which other kid doesn't get the money needed? And if colleges did that, then I believe that more and more parents would refuse to pay, even if they fully intended to do so beforehand, just to see how much money they'd save.</p>
<p>The only way to make this work is for the courts to enforce the payment of tuition through some sort of electronic transfer, just as they will garnish wages and other assets, with the court removing the money from the non-custodial parent and submitting it to the colleges. Or, if the children are young, escrowing it in an account that the non-custodial parent cannot drain. But what the colleges say the father can pay, and what the colleges say the father can pay, can be two very different things.</p>
<p>I don't know what the solution is. I just don't think it's the colleges' issue.</p>
<p>Plus the reality is that if the bills are not paid they are in the students name. My sons girlfriend had to drop out of school after one semester several years ago because the bills were not paid (another divorce mess that happened as she started school). I believe the non payment is on her credit rating not the parents.</p>
<p>In all honesty applicantmom - if there is any doubt the schools can not be paid for then try and have your daughter consider schools you can afford. Tough tough call I know especially at this late stage in the game and with everything else going on. You and she must both feel your lives are imploding around your ears. But if she starts at the more expensive school and loves it but the bills cannot be paid and she has to quit it will be even harder in the long run. Choose a more affordable option - she will probably learn to love it anyway.</p>
<p>the difference with doctors billing is that usually is stipulated in a divorce decree as belonging to one parent--where tuition is sometimes both--as indicated in my decree. I agree that we all struggle in our own ways and noone deserves special treatment--however though you continue to point out how unfair it is for children of div parents to be given consideration of differences even if there is a severe situation--and don't think colleges should deal have to address this--you don't acknowledge that simple things like correcting the inequity in income allowance for single parents and the lack of a formula for div parents so their incomes are not simply lumped together are issues that colleges can address differently. consider your own situation as it is now and imagine supporting two households--and being given less than half of the income allowance--yeah scary</p>
<p>I agree, it shouldn't make any difference in who the bill goes to. In theory. Given the tendency for divorced ex's to associate pooling money together for the sake of the child with giving to the ex, it would be very helpful. It would remove the emotional, resentful element, and give the non custodial parent ownership of their contribution. If a dad with an income of $100,000 and a mom with an income of $50,000 had a kid in college, or the reverse, mom high income and dad, half that, financial aid and financial obligation could be portioned out accordingly.</p>
<p>Yes, I know would be more work for the colleges. But they'd perhaps be saving a bundle on financial aid in the long run by charging the higher income parent appropriately. </p>
<p>We did have an orthodontist bill us separately. Most bills are not based on ability to pay, as college to an extent is, which why we're talking about it. </p>
<p>As stated before, I am not trying to belittle the struggles of many intact families. The middle class is being squeezed as never before. I'm only stating my off line reality.</p>
<p>Actually it is not the income protection allowance under FAFSA that is less than half. Income protection for 2 in household with 1 in college is $15380 compared to $19150 for 3 in family with 1 in college. It is the asset protection allowance that is very inequitable - a 2 parent household with the older parent being aged 50 gets $49,000 asset protection - a one parent family where the parent is aged 50 gets $20,100 in asset protection. Ridiculous. (I am not a single parent but the unfairness of it just burns me).</p>