<p>We are in the same situation. It breaks my heart that we aren’t able to fork over that amount of money per year. </p>
<p>I just don’t think it would be responsible to invest everything on a top school when the state option is higher ranked in the field he is planning to major in.</p>
<p>*I just don’t think it would be responsible to invest everything on a top school when the state option is higher ranked in the field he is planning to major in. *</p>
<p>If the same were true in our case, I’d feel the same way and push for the state option! Personally, I went to Kansas which was in the top five for editorial journalism back in the day, and thought that kids who went to NU, Syracuse or Columbia for journalism were nuts for overpaying–especially to enter a profession that paid so poorly to begin with.</p>
<p>Once we’ve had time to adjust to the shock, we do realize how fortunate we’ve been to live the lives we have. We may have to pay more because of it, but would you really have wanted to be in the EFC=0 boat for the last 18 years of his life?</p>
<p>Midwstmom, we do realize how fortunate we are. What’s tough about the finaid decision being pegged almost entirely to our AGI is that not all of us have had high AGI’s for a long time. For many of us, the ability to save and accumulate college money was much more modest during most of those 18 years. But our current AGI is today being used as the primary basis of an assumption about how much we’ve saved, as well as how much we can spend out-of-pocket and how much we can borrow. God forbid we have managed to build up decent home equity and 401K accounts, as well, to be reported in PROFILE–more indicators of our ability to accumulate and/or borrow cash for college, apparently, even if the formulas themselves don’t “count” these things.</p>
<p>I ask with all due respect why a top school is a “luxury item” for people in that upper-but-not-rich-enough range but the same school is not considered overstepping for people whose income is much lower.</p>
<p>Going to a pricey school is a luxury for everyone. The fact that some pricey schools decide to give some of THEIR money to a FEW of those with lower incomes does not make attending any less of a luxury. Only a tiny number of low income kids get full rides to pricey publics.</p>
<p>To the OP…your son WANTS to be at a school where everyone is very smart like him. If you want him to have that luxury, then pay for it. Again…it’s a luxury. Who do you think should pay for your child’s dreams?</p>
<p>BTW…did you provide a private school environment for your child during K-12 education? If not, why not. I paid to send my kids to private schools. I didn’t expect others to pay for it. I wanted that for my kids, so I paid for it.</p>
<p>Is your child a National Merit Finalist? </p>
<p>Are you instate for UIUC? If not, how is that a financial safety?</p>
<p>“Does NU seriously believe we should just fork all of that over to them, and borrow an equal amount? Home equity is coincidentally also about $180K. Do they want all of that?”</p>
<p>“Does NU …think we are rich?”</p>
<p>Here’s where I think people’s thinking gets skewed. Colleges don’t “believe”, “want” or “think” anything at all (nor do they “expect” anything–another term I see a lot on CC0–as in “does College X really expect me to pay $YYY?”) They intend only for you to look at the financial aid package they’ve cooked up and give them a yes or no about whether the student will attend. They fully understand it might be a “no”, and they can live with that, because they will have no trouble filling that spot with someone else. As for your son not wanting to attend a less selective school that will offer him a merit scholarship, he should keep in mind that he will have plenty of intellectual equals who are there for the same reason he is, especially if he is offered a spot in an honors program.</p>
<p>Nicely said MommaJ. And I agree there are some terrific public honors colleges. </p>
<p>Mom2collegekids: I don’t think the OP is saying he expects a full ride. He expects to pay a good chunk of the price, but can’t foot the whole price tag each year without some help or making some difficult decisions that will possibly affect the second child’s college choice. That usually isn’t something a lower incomer or a very high incomer must wrestle with. We all know middle-class kids who receive some institutional and/or merit aid, but the families still pay a good chunk as well. Together, that combination can often make the dream come true. In the OP’s case, it seems to be nearly an all or nothing situation.</p>
<p>The system seems to have evolved to where there are several different price tags for the same product, but you don’t know what your exact price tag will be until it’s nearly too late to make other decisions or you are faced with disappointing your hardworking student. I’m grateful to have found CC before my kid and I were too far down the road in this process. In the end, I agree with NJSue: “In reality, though, higher education is big business selling a product.”</p>
<p>Mom2, I never suggested that someone else should pay for my child’s dreams. The subject of the thread is the surprise/dismay some of us find when it becomes clear we and our kids were so naive to have applied. It’s a product of the way the schools promote their affordability during the application period. We all received stacks of letters “to the parents” from the likes of NU’s Office of Financial Aid saying, “Don’t be daunted by the high cost of education here; we work hard to make sure it’s affordable for you. If you are concerned that you can’t afford us, don’t turn away…call us. And apply!” We were then fed statistics on the relatively low amount of debt the average graduate carries away. Fast forward to April, and we find we actually ARE expected to pay “list.” Given the low debt statistic, most families must be paying out of pocket or through private loans that aren’t coordinated or tracked by the school. </p>
<p>So, it now appears the schools never actually “believed” or “thought” that we would remember the affordability pitch.</p>
<p>No my son is not an NMF. We are in-state for U of I. We chose our community for the quality of its public K-12 schools and were fortunate to take advantage of its excellent gifted-student program.</p>
<p>The system seems to have evolved to where there are several different price tags for the same product, but you don’t know what your exact price tag will be until it’s nearly too late to make other decisions or you are faced with disappointing your hardworking student.</p>
<p>PRECISELY!!</p>
<p>It’s hard to know how your son’s goals will change over the next four years, but assuming he does go to law school, that too will be expensive. It might make more sense to attend a less expensive school for undergraduate, keeping in mind the expense of law school.</p>
<p>How much is UIUC?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Or it could be that your EFC is well above average for this school, which would mean that your income is well above average for this school. That’s actually something to be grateful for. :)</p>
<p>*We all received stacks of letters “to the parents” from the likes of NU’s Office of Financial Aid saying, “Don’t be daunted by the high cost of education here; we work hard to make sure it’s affordable for you. If you are concerned that you can’t afford us, don’t turn away…call us. And apply!”</p>
<p>**We were then fed statistics on the relatively low amount of debt the average graduate carries away. **Fast forward to April, and we find we actually ARE expected to pay “list.” Given the low debt statistic, most families must be paying out of pocket or through private loans that aren’t coordinated or tracked by the school.
*</p>
<p>I wouldn’t believe what schools (businesses) say about how they will make their product affordable to me. I’ve been on Mercedes’ lots and have been told that they can make their pricey cars affordable …do I believe that? No. </p>
<p>Those stats on federal student loans that are in their FA packages are exactly that…stats on student loans that they put in their packages. They aren’t tracking what parents are borrowing…or what students are doing/borrowing outside of their purview. It’s none of their business to know/track what parents are doing, and it’s none of their business if parents are co-signing private loans for their children. </p>
<p>*Here’s where I think people’s thinking gets skewed. Colleges don’t “believe”, “want” or “think” anything at all (nor do they “expect” anything–another term I see a lot on CC0–as in “does College X really expect me to pay $YYY?”) They intend only for you to look at the financial aid package they’ve cooked up and give them a yes or no about whether the student will attend. They fully understand it might be a “no”, and they can live with that, because they will have no trouble filling that spot with someone else. As for your son not wanting to attend a less selective school that will offer him a merit scholarship, he should keep in mind that he will have plenty of intellectual equals who are there for the same reason he is, especially if he is offered a spot in an honors program. *</p>
<p>We need an APPLAUSE button. </p>
<p>MommaJ is exactly right. </p>
<p>Your son, and maybe you as well, has champagne tastes…he wants to spend 4 years in a very pricey environment that is concentrated with super smart kids. You can choose to pay/borrow/whatever to provide that luxurious experience, or not.</p>
<p>Your very smart son has used stats about lower ranked schools to come to the wrong conclusion. He’s assuming that if he takes a merit scholarship at a school where his stats are in the top 10%, that he won’t have a lot of smart kids in his classes. This is a common mistake people make. They look at the 2 middle quartiles of a large school (often a public) and see that there are good number of average stats kids on campus. They neglect to realize that those kids are not evenly spread out amongst all majors. The more difficult and challenging majors have the much higher concentrations of higher stats kids. When schools “buy” high stats kids, they know that about 6-8 of their majors are going to get a big boost in high stats kids…because those kids are largely concentrated in a few majors…Those kids are NOT spread out evenly amongst a college’s 100+ majors. </p>
<p>And, as MommaJ mentions, if the school has a good honors program, then he’ll have more opportunities to be surrounded by other smart kids.</p>
<p>I’m also detecting a certain sense that your son thinks that unless he’s surrounded by a bunch of other ACT 35/36 kids, his educational experience will somehow suffer. It’s wrong to think that an ACT 35 student can’t “learn” or have intelligent conversations with kids who have - say - an ACT 28 or 30. Those kids have scored in the top 10% of the nation. Surely, they can be academic peers in conversation and in the classroom. </p>
<p>BTW…if your son really has law school in his plans…then all of this need to be in a pricey private is sooo unnecessary. Save your money and help him with law school costs.</p>
<p>You and your son should be thrilled that you have UIUC as a school that is his financial safety. You’re an Illinois taxpayer, and you’re getting a discount to send your kid there.</p>
<p>
yes, you should be grateful that you can, in addition to paying for your kids tuition, subsidize someone else’s kid through higher tuition so school can give out more FA to those making less than you.</p>
<p>“The subject of the thread is the surprise/dismay some of us find when it becomes clear we and our kids were so naive to have applied.”</p>
<p>The issue really isn’t about being naive enough to apply, it is more about being completely innocent of the facts related to college financial aid. In many ways that isn’t entirely your fault. Until about three years ago, most families in your shoes were indeed in a situation where they could come up with the money through a combination of student loans, parent loans, home-equity loans, etc. When your son was in 9th grade there was no one standing on a street corner shouting “The economy is going to cave in, find a cheap college for your kid now!” I would wager that not one single presenter at any of the College Information Night events at your son’s high school arrived with hand-outs detailing the links to the EFC calculators at [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.FinAid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.FinAid.org), or the simple information that by googling “FAFSA Formula 20010” you could find a paper version of the raw formula itself. No one did at Happykid’s school! All we got were details on how to qualify for the state scholarships, and a copy of the paper FAFSA application.</p>
<p>I got lucky. When I came home from that meeting, I was ticked off that no one could give me specific information about the FAFSA formula, so I spent a couple days tracking down an estimator. When I found one, I ran the numbers. I couldn’t believe them, and waited another year to try again. But that time I believed them. Had you been handed the links to the FAFSA estimators four years ago, would it have changed your college planning? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But at least you would have been forewarned. </p>
<p>So, here is my homework for you today. Post these two links to the parents list-serve at your kid’s high school. [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org) <a href=“http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf</a> Tell as much of your story as you are willing to share. If even just one parent gets the message, you will have done a very good thing.</p>
<p>
I realized when my oldest was a sophomore in HS this exact scenario. The LAC I went to on merit and financial aid for $6000 a year in the 70’s was not going to be possible for my two D’s now that it was $50,000 a year. I parlayed that education into a nice income, with some savings. But not $200,000 per kid times two kids. $400,000??? Just for undergrad??? You must be kidding. I was speechless for days. And I knew that my oldest would not be scoring a 35 on her ACT.</p>
<p>Whlle I was shocked and angry at the price tag. I did not let on to my kids. Funny, when we took the college tours, neither one wanted a small LAC. Fast-forward to now. They are both at state U’s and not only happy but excelling. They will graduate from undergrad loan free. And we will still have savings left for grad school/vet school. It does help to find out the financial realities before the end of senior year.</p>
<p>I do not mean to be unhelpful, but the OP has a $150K annual income and $180 in assets. (I am not clear if this is in addition to his home.)</p>
<p>Seems to me that if you really want your kid to go to NU, you have the resources to do so, in that someone like you can borrow and make loan payments. </p>
<p>You do not mention whether or not your spouse works, or if you can take on a second job. I have been working two jobs since my child started college. </p>
<p>Personally, I am not really familiar with NU, but I have sure heard of UIUC, which is a well-known and highly-regarded university. I am sure that your son would be able to find some smart friends there.</p>
<p>OP–as I’ve said to poster on another thread, ‘dream school’ is overrated. You’ve got a chance at UIUC to get some real value for your child’s education at a top 50 University. I find it hard to believe that paying $100,000 MORE over 4 years is going to guarantee your son that much of a better job by attending N’Western over UIUC. And…I believe the tuition lock deal at UIUC for 4 years is still valid.</p>
<p>FWIW, the valedictorian of D1’s HS class attended Northwestern, graduated with honors and presently is working at a web company for a low salary. Brilliant girl, few jobs out there.</p>
<p>As for the worry about being around other smart students–he will find his intellectual peer group at a big, selective flagship like UIUC.</p>
<p>My D is at Indiana U and is a top-achiever. She too initially wanted to go to a top-tier private, and was accepted at several. However–no aid for us, and our savings would not extend that far. Essentially we set a budget. We could pay around 80-100k for all four years. The rest would be loans that she would have to pay back (obviously, we’d have had to co-sign for loans of that size!)</p>
<p>She herself took the expensive privates out of the running the moment she saw how much they cost. Luckily, she had a range of other options costing half the privates.</p>
<p>She skipped most of the big intro-level courses w/ her AP credits and test scores. She’s in upper-level and honors courses, and has a fun, brilliant group of high-achieving friends. She’s very happy, and doing well. She will graduate debt-free, good thing, because grad school is definitely in her plans.</p>
<p>And I can sleep at night, knowing we can pay for it!</p>
<p>^happymomof1–you are so right about parents needing to be informed. I tell anyone who will listen to RUN THE FAFSA numbers asap! Parents of freshmen/sophs, esp. People just don’t know, or believe the ‘we can make x college affordable’ pitches. I know I thought that would somehow be the case back when my D was a high school freshman.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you have to be able to read betwen the lines. “Help make college affordable” is a phrase used by a number of colleges that surprise families with lower aid than they want. Another is, “Help you find ways to finance your education.” That’s all they do: help you find ways- it’s no guarantee the solution is from their pockets. </p>
<p>NU states, on their web pages about finaid: If a student’s expected family contribution is equal to or greater than the cost of attendance, he or she will not qualify for need-based aid. In these cases, Northwestern may be able to recommend other financing options.</p>
<p>My alarm bells would have gone off when I got an EFC of 47k. Common advice is to go back and ensure you did not make mistakes on the Fafsa or Profile. Good luck.</p>
<p>What did you and your child save for college? You know, the old college savings fund? All the birthday money, half the allowance, any errand money, part time jobs, summer jobs–some of that should be in a stash somewhere because if you have kids that you feel are destined for private boarding schools, you have known for some time what they have been costing and you know you have to save for it. Who did you think was going to pay for their room and board (at least $10K a year) and for the private school? Did they go to private boarding school for high school? Why not? Would you have expected the school or government to have helped you with that? </p>
<p>There is this myth going around that if your kid works hard, gets good grades in tough subjects and scores high in test scores and has a great resume, he is going to get a free ride to any college he wants. He is going to be courted and offered packages from everywhere that make his head spin. And that myth is actually true for a teeny, tiny number of very special kids. That number is very small and you will hit the lottery and be able to pay for their college with those winnings before you have a kid like that. A former neighbor had a bright, gifted athlete student who is in that number, but even then the choices were going free to some big state university on an athletic/merit scholarship or paying full price for an ivy, because they don’t give athletic or merit scholarships. And they were chewing their nails for the admissions responses like everyone else until they got the letters, yes, earlier than most kids, but no sure thing, believe me. And that kid was one of the true elite that schools wanted. So who is supposed to pay for all of the other kids who are clamoring to get into these school and who don’t have those talents? There is a financial order established and those who can pay do not get financial aid unless their kids find a school where they are top dogs that will get some merit money. </p>
<p>So how do people at your income range or in the range where they are not considered needy do it, if that is part of the plan for the kids? Well, they start saving early. Instead of an additon the house, they put the money in a 529 Plan for college. Kids have savings plan just like the emergency funds and retirement plans, and you live on less. Most of the families in this country do live on less than you have so you certainly can cut back. The problem is that you have bought yourself in a position where you have to keep paying on those commitments so you don’t have the salary to add an expensive college payment. So, you save, the kid saves, you pay out of current income cuz you will realize some savings with the kid out of the house, and you won’t be saving for that kid’s college anymore but paying it directly to them. You cut back further, your kid works, maybe two jobs over the summer—he’s young, he’ll survive, and works 10-15 hours a week at school, works over the break. You borrow, he borrows. That’s how many of us do it. </p>
<p>That’s what we are doing, and we still can’t come up with $55K a year, because as sanctimonious as I may sound, I didn’t save like I should and bought into some long term expensive commitments that we can’t cut loose. We would have been better being frivolous and blowing the money, cuz you can cut back on spending sprees. Can’t cut back on the expenses of a house addition. Or selling a house in this market and down sizing. We have high fixed expenses that we can’t cut due to the commitment aspect of them. But our family has enjoyed those benefits for years, and it was a decision we made to commit to those things. I have no one to blame but myself. But when it comes down to paying for college, we can’t resurrect the money spent in the past, can’t blow off certain current commitment, and it may not be a good idea to borrow from the future. So for us that meant our kids could not go to a top priced private school, without merit money since we don’t get much financial aid. With two in college next year, if both were at top cost schools, we would qualify for some subsidization of Staffords. Maybe at some of the very most generous colleges like Harvard, we would qualify for under $2-3 K in aid. Hardly a dent in what would be a $110K cost. </p>
<p>So my son eliminated all of the schools that accepted him but didn’t give him any merit money that brought the cost down to our family affordable price. And, sadly we did inflate that price more than we should have and will literally pay for that. But that’s a whole other story. We shall spend some of our savings, pay out of current income and borrow, and our son will do the same. He had some very nice choices at the range we told him was the maximum affordable, and he did get some surprise merit sweeteners that brought some expensive private schools within striking range. Even further down the cost scale, he had some choices. Had worse come to worse, he could commute to a local state college for very little. Less than what a private Catholic elementary school tuiton, so he can go to college even if we refused to pay a dime. But we would not be able to pay full freight for NW and no way they would or should pay for him to go there even if he were accepted there. Nor could they pay for every such kid. Where do you think the money is coming from to take care of all of those students?</p>