Family Invests $15 k to Try to Position Kid for Harvard

Parent Cafe
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<p>quote: "Maybe I'm not cynical enough or not jaded from watching kids twist themselves into something that their not for a college acceptance. I see this as a girl who wants to use the money that she received in the spirit of celebrating her becoming an adult in the eyes of God and her religion in a meaningful and thoughtful way. Maybe she is just working the system, but I hope this is a genuine gift from her heart to those who are much less fortunate than she."</p>

<p>and I use the above quote just as a reference point for my comment, not necessarily to comment specifically to that quote...</p>

<p>It occurs to me that not only are we (as a society) heaping on tons of expectations for these unsophisticated teenagers (ie., you have to get top grades, be in the 1% in test scores, volunteer, not only join clubs but become leaders, create orginal research, become class president, take college courses, win national competitions, travel the world, blah, blah, blah) but now we are asking them to "do it all out of the geniune interest and goodness of your heart". </p>

<p>What a load of crap-o-la. The whole lot of it. Am I the only one completely disgusted with the entire process?</p>

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<p>We encouraged my son to do community service last summer so he wouldn't have a big fat zero in that column of his applications. But what he did was simple and close to home - volunteer in the computer lab of the local senior center. I have mixed feelings about community service. My high school had a wonderful very organized program where every Wednesday was devoted to service learning. One year was more social service, one year you worked on Capitol Hill and senior year you did work in a field you thought you might like as an eventual job. It was recognized that we probably learned more than we gave.</p>

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<p>First of all, I have a son who did exactly what the girl plans -- 4 weeks community service in Thailand via a foreign exchange program, for about the same cost - in his case financed with a combination of his own savings & contributions from relatives. He took money that I assumed he had been saving for a car and spent it to go to Thailand instead.</p>

<p>Those who have a jaded view -- "why not do community service at home" -- don't understand what these trips are about. My son's options were not "where to do community service" - rather he was looking at foreign travel, and he chose community service in Thailand over, say, spending time touring France or Italy. His main goal was to travel and widen his circle of experience beyond the suburb where he grew up. It's just that once he decided that he wanted to travel, he also decided that he wanted to do something worthwhile while he was doing the traveling. </p>

<p>In other words -- it is not: I want to do community service, where shall l go to do it? -- it is: I want to travel -- what shall I do when I get there?</p>

<p>As far as the cs goes -- most of it involves going to schools in Thailand and helping to teach English. It was an incredibly rewarding and enriching experience for my son, involving a homestay in a rural area and an opportunity to be immersed among the language and culture of the country he visited. He didn't do it to impress colleges -- and certainly one would have to be delusional in today's competitive college environment to think 4 weeks abroad are going to make a difference to a school like Harvard. </p>

<p>I think that the article seems very slanted and ignorant of what parents these days pay for ORDINARY enrichment experiences for their kids. When my daughter was a middle-schooler, I sat down one day and tallied up all the ballet studio fees and I realized that I was paying more than $4000 annually for dance lessons. Did it help my daughter get into college? Well -- she certainly included info about dance as an EC on all her submissions.... and if she had wanted to be a dance major, she certainly was well prepared for any auditions she might face. But it wasn't spent to "position" her for college. </p>

<p>$15,000 over 4 or more years is a pittance compared to what some people pay for private school tuition, which often is a very direct way of "positioning" their kid for college -- I mean, no one sends their kid off to Groton with the idea that the next step after that is community college. $3000 for a summer program is just what generally costs, whether it is TIP or summer camp. Those of use who are employed outside the home and send our kids to public school are well used to the idea that we need to pay for <em>something</em> to keep the kids occupied during the summer months -- I mean, I had to pay for full time day care when the kids were 9 -- it's just easier when they are old enough to be packed off to some sort of live-in program, whether it is an academic program or soccer camp or whatever they prefer. </p>

<p>I think this is just one more case of a journalist in search of a story..... and maybe a family duped by the journalist into thinking the focus was going to be something different.</p>

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<p>My son's school (and every Philadelphia public high school) has a 35-hour annual community service requirement (and I think NHS adds another 25 onto that). It generates enormous hassle and paperwork, and there are no doubt many bogus community service opportunities. There is always a scramble for the school to find community service opportunities that kids who can't find them on their own can do.</p>

<p>But it does give kids who would be doing the work anyway some sense that they are receiving "credit" for it, and I'll bet it legitimately connects some decent percentage of the kids with some kind of world outside the school that they might not have been part of but for the requirement. My son's main CS has been working at a local museum. It's something he might never have done if he didn't have the requirement, but in the past three years he's never done fewer than 70 hours there. (He's not going to do that many this year, however, because he has had college trips, a job, and various other ECs.) He's also done plenty of one-off projects (like MLK day, working at a "haunted pirate ship" fundraiser for a charity, or staffing an information table for the school at a high school fair for middle schoolers).</p>

<p>I think the educational literature on this type of requirement is very positive -- which is why the requirement is there.</p>

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<p>Calmom, I agree with everything you wrote and we have discussed these trips before (stay on CC long enough and every topic comes back up over and over, lol). While my kid never did a service project abroad....if she had, it would have been with the same thinking as your son. It wouldn't be "I need community service....where should I do it?" but that she'd want to go abroad and find a program that satisfied what she wanted to do there. Like I said, my D would be keen on building homes in Costa Rica but I can't fund that now that she is in college. Had she wanted to do that one summer in high school, fine by me. She opted at the time for other travel experiences that combined the interests and experiences she wanted to have. This is not in LIEU of local community service as was brought up earlier on this thread....it was unrelated. It simply was an experence she'd want to have. </p>

<p>JHS...the idea behind required community service is not so bad actually (we don't have it at our HS). But I just feel that I am reading many CC kids listing hours of service and it is just hard for me to think like that. I think one should engage in experiences they have a true interest in. Forget college admissions. If you get involved in what interests you (and that very well may be community service for one person, but something else for another), and contribute in a significant capacity over time with devotion/committment and achieve something, that is worthwhile. College applications can just document your interests and what you've done to explore them, participate, contribute, initiate, lead, and/or accomplish. </p>

<p>Pearl...I don't really agree with you. I don't think "genuine interest" adds pressure or expectations. I can ONLY think of doing something out of genuine interest and NOT because it looks good or is thought to be "needed" to get into college. I can honestly say that besides doing well in academics, there was nothing my kids opted to do because they felt they "had to", felt pressured to do, or to get into college. The activities they did (and they did them MANY hours daily seven days per week) were cause they loved doing those things. Nobody asked them to do any of these things....it was the other way around...they asked us if they could do them....and neither kid was thinking of college admissions. When they applied to college, they documented the activities they had done. If they had never gone to college, they would have done the same activities, I can assure you. They are continuing these activities now in college as they don't wish to give them up. These are genuine passions. You don't get up at 5:30 AM in college like one of my kids did today for her activity unless you love it. </p>

<p>Calmom....I know what you mean...if I added up the cost of all the extracurriculars....it would add up to plenty. My kids never went to private school, but these enriching activities (and yes, we had a dance studio bill for two like you had) after school, on weekends and in summer cost money. It was a big priority for us but not to enable our kids to get into college, but rather because they loved these activities and we tried to support them doing them by paying and driving.....lots of paying but lots and lots of driving. I know my kids were lucky to be able to participate in activities and summer things too. It didn't cost as much as private school, but we never considered private school anyway (which in our case would mean boarding school....couldn't afford it, nor were willing to send our kids away). So, the girl in the article is not so different in that her family is paying for enrichment activities or summer things. I think the person writing it made it sound like you have to do these things or pay this amount to get into college. I never saw it that way. I paid for my kids to have these experiences just to have the experiences. It wasn't meant as a ticket to something else.</p>

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<p>deb922 - the mission trip my D goes on they do actually do hands on work. She has roofed a house, built a porch, demolished part of a house in preparation for the next crew to rebuild it, reinforced a floor. She has loved the experiences and even more loved the rapport built with the people whose houses she has worked on. It is through our church but no preaching allowed - just work. This has been an important part of her life for the last few years and she has learnt a lot from it. It is something she gets really excited about when she talks about it.The money we raise is used for transportation and they take their own tools. Accomodations are usually in a school gym. </p>

<p>One poster a while back asked about why people do this work in their own communities. i wondered the same when my D first got involved. The reasoning is that, for the families being helped, it is sometimes easier when the people helping are not the same people that for instance your child may be going to school with.</p>

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<p>I think the important thing is for kids to do what interests them and not what will look good on their college app. If a kid is able to afford or raise the money to go on a community service trip, that's great. 8th grade daughter wanted to go on a winter break trip to the Gulf Coast to help clean up H for H houses. We gave permission if she earned $200 of the $400 trip cost. She babysat and petsat and gave the additional she made to purchase cleaning supplies for the trip. But she also voluteers at home spending almost every weekend outside the pet store trying to place dogs up for adoption (her passion) and manages about 350 hours of community service per year. </p>

<p>All that's important to me is that she sees the value of community service and learns that not everyone is as fortunate in life as she has been.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
One poster a while back asked about why people do this work in their own communities. i wondered the same when my D first got involved.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This should read 'don't do the work in their own communities' which then makes more sense.</p>

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<p>I know about quite a few church mission trips for teenagers down to Mexico to build houses. There are usually a couple dozen people, mostly teens and a few moms and dads. A few of the dads are contractors and currently or formerly carpenters. A few if the teenage males are athletes with strong arms and good eye-hand coordination.</p>

<p>The way it works is this: everyone gets a chance to swing a hammer for a while, but within about 15 minutes the dads who are carpenters do that all day while everyone else lifts and totes stuff to and from the site, or cooks the next meal or cleans up from the last meal. The athletic boys swing hammers too, and are pretty good at it by the time the project is done.</p>

<p>Honestly, this is a pretty good program. Dirt cheap as we just drive down there in vans and stay at village church facilities. The end product is a little house for a grateful impoverished family. In a week we can put up three. It is neither a vacation for anyone nor anything that anybody puts on a resume, since these are just average kids mostly going to local state Us or community colleges where community service means jack diddly.</p>

<p>Frankly, I don't get a teen spending $4500 in bar mitzvah money to go to Thailand to do the same thing, lifting 2x4s or cooking for hammer swingers. That money would be much better spent actually travelling around, experiencing more of the country and sights.</p>

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<p>I haven't read the entire article, just what NSM posted. But I agree with Calmom and Soozie. The article is tendentious and makes a huge mountain out a very tiny molehill. Even if the Goldbergs parents et fille spent $15k on enrichment activities, it's a tiny sum in comparison to what other families spend.<br>
We paid $2k for a purely recreational summer camp which S2 disliked--because it was recreational and he was bored by all this recreation. So we looked into more academic camps--which S loved. Did the switch indicate we were college-obsessed parents (we're talking 4th grade here)? Or what about the music lessons and music camp for S1? They came to more than $15k but there's not a Money magazine writer who would suggest that this was done to position S for Harvard (to which he did not apply anyway).
And what's this about "positioning for Harvard" when the parents have expressed a concern that their daughter become interested in other schools?</p>

<p>Another case of Harvard selling magazines. Another case of bad journalism. Ugh.</p>

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<p>Just a note to the poster who didn't think Jimmy Carter could adequately swing a hammer. He's been involved with Habitat for decades and has actually made most of the furniture in his own house. If you remember back to his presidency, he was criticized for being too hands-on. He is someone who does what he says he does. It's easy to forget such people exist.</p>

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<p>Re: Carter, from a 1987 article by By Sara Pacher in "Mother Earth News":
"Maybe it's because I, too, was born and raised in a small south Georgia town, but I found sitting down to talk to Rosalynn and Jimmy Carter as comfortable as lazing in a porch swing on a summer afternoon, sipping minty iced tea.</p>

<p>Just such a swing overlooks a roaring mountain stream at the Carters' log cabin retreat in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Along with the cabin's other furniture, the swing was designed and built by the former president, a master woodworker who selects and cuts the trees for such projects from his 160-acre farm. He strips off the bark (which he sometimes uses for caning) and shapes the wood into furniture and other items destined to become heirlooms. </p>

<p>"My daddy was a good man with tools," he recalls, "so learning how to use them was as natural as breathing for us. If something broke, we had to fix it ourselves. You didn't call somebody in to repair something or replace it with something new. We had these skills—all farmers did during the Depression years—and we had very well equipped shops, both for woodworking and blacksmithing." </p>

<p>Over the years, Carter has made some 50 household items, about half of which he has given away as gifts. But some pieces still sit around the family's Plains house and have been in use for over 30 years. His wife is quick to point out, however, that his skills improved as time went on. "When we came home from the Navy in 1953, he built a sofa and a lounge chair for the back porch. He used nails in them. Now he builds everything without nails. He's studied woodworking and worked at it, and he's made really beautiful furniture for our home—including a pencil post bed and tables by the side."</p>

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<p>Calmom, I agree that "I want to travel" what shall I do instead of just sightseeing, puts a whole different spin on the idea of community service in Thailand. Your son probably got to know Thailand much better doing what he was doing than just being a tourist.</p>

<p>As for the other stuff - I certainly forked over my share of $$ to the CTY folks, not because I was positioning my son for Harvard, but because for three blissful weeks a year he got to stretch his mind.</p>

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<p>My older one did a building project for five weeks in Africa--and then joined a low-budget overland tour. The younger one didn't want to risk the isolation of a village project. He just did the overland tour.</p>

<p>I know what my older son did was useful but he didn't do it to chalk up a 'volunteer' experience. First, he didn't go until after apps were submitted. It's ahrd to make future expeditions sound sexy on an app.</p>

<p>Anyway, his group bought the materials for and built a big latrine facility for a large multi-village primary school. But he got much more in the exchange--living with an African farmer, cooking and eating the local foods, working alongside the villagers, playing sports with the villagers, going into the nightclubs in town with the villagers. He thought the volunteer experience would give him a view into everyday life in Africa--and he did get a wonderful view.</p>

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<p>I stand corrected on Carter. I know he's been with HforH forever, but to me, he looks very awkward swinging a hammer. Maybe he's better with the furniture making.</p>

<p>Anyway, I would never begrudge kids their enrichment activities. Mine have been lucky enough to experience private school, loads of music lessons & performance opportunities, dance & singing lessons, international travel, sports camps & tournaments, the whole nine yards. We've supported every interest & talent they've asked for, but never pushed those they weren't enthused about. (Zero interest in CTY, for instance.) I just won't let them take part in some pricey "mission trip" that is really no such thing.</p>

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<p>F that. I never understood how an American teen buying a $1000 plane ticket to help some African farmer plant his yams or repair his home would help him significantly. It is more of a beneficial experience for the "volunteer" than the African, who may have to fix the shoddy work done by the volunteer. </p>

<p>Second, it is a total waste to use so much money on summer programs. Well, with their parents earning $200,000 a year, I suppose 15k is just a drop in a lake, but still I would just save it. That is my entire year's worth of pay, which I need for gifts, food, lunch, textbooks, etc. </p>

<p>I hate these little small tricks by rich kids, probably because I did not got to do these rich activities, but you can become a high sat scorer and valedictorian the normal way as I did - by pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Second, it is a total waste to use so much money on summer programs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A lot of students cannot afford expensive summer programs. But the fact that they cannot afford them does not make these summer program "a total waster of money." </p>

<p>Great for you to have become a high SAT scorer and valedictorian. But lots of kids attend summer enrichment programs for the fun of it, not in order to improve their SATs or become valedictorians. In fact, for some programs, one needs high SATS to begin with. </p>

<p>I agree that the volunteer help abroad is more beneficial for the American kid than for the putative recipient of the kid's community service. But there is still something worthwhile to spending a period of time as part of a community as opposed to being a pampered tourist, as Cheers showed.</p>

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<p>I gladly pay for CTY, not because the money isn't a sacrifice, but because the feedback from my daughter has been enthusiastic and long-lasting. Just tonight she was telling me how she was able to teach her math teacher something that she had learned at CTY. My daughter isn't some spoiled rich kid. She attends a relatively non-competitive public school and CTY is a way for us to supplement that education without breaking the bank. If colleges write it off as rich-kid fluff, so be it, but my daughter has benefitted tremendously from attending. It was never about packaging, but providing her with intellectual challenge and confidence.</p>

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<p>This is kind of a goofy article. People drop that much per year on costly private elementary schools, all with the expectation that an Ivy admission will happen years later. It's easy to imagine a total in the hundreds of thousands of dollars if you look at preschool through high school, along with lessons, tutors, summer programs, etc. And $15K spread across quite a few items is a big deal???</p>

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<p>Roger, and the thing is, the article insinuates that the 15K was to get into college. I don't know that family, but I just know that my own kids went to summer programs (non academic ones, but there's nothing wrong with academic ones if that's what you crave) for the experience itself. I didn't see that as an investment to get into college. I saw no relation to college when they picked their summer activities. One of my kids picked her summer camp at age nine and went to it until she left for college. As it later turned out, that is the area she now wants to pursue as a career. Who knew when she picked the program out at age nine what she'd want to study in college? The expense that the family in the article had for summers, etc. was no different than many people who spend money on lessons, activities or other enrichment. I call it "bringing up children" and the article called it "positioning a kid for Harvard". :D</p>

<p>FastMed:

[quote]
Second, it is a total waste to use so much money on summer programs. Well, with their parents earning $200,000 a year, I suppose 15k is just a drop in a lake, but still I would just save it. That is my entire year's worth of pay, which I need for gifts, food, lunch, textbooks, etc

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is not a waste of money to those parents who feel their kids really enjoyed the summer activity and got to explore their interests. Not everyone who does summer things are rich, though I can appreciate that many CANNOT afford any summer programs and can find other worthwhile activities to do, as well as jobs. Our income is not nearly the amount you quote (in fact, my kids get financial aid in college), and so their summer programs were not a drop in the bucket but a real struggle to afford. It was a big priority for us and we found a way to do it, though I realize not everyone can. My kids know they were lucky to do things in summer they really wanted to do very badly. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I hate these little small tricks by rich kids, probably because I did not got to do these rich activities, but you can become a high sat scorer and valedictorian the normal way as I did - by pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, it is an assumption that all who go to a summer activity are rich. But you are also assuming that kids go to summer programs to get into college or to get higher SAT scores or become val. Nothing my kids did in summer had to do with getting higher SAT scores or becoming val. There were no "tricks" or special efforts other than whatever you did to get good SATs or become val (I even have a kid who was val). Their summers were not related to their academic achievements during the school year. Their summers were to explore their interests. Yes, they did things that cost money and not everyone can. But these things were not tricks to get into college or to impact their academics. As far as academics, they pushed themselves like you did. That part cost no money. Summers were not truly related to that. Their summer activities didn't get them into college. But their pursuit of interests make them who they are today. There are ways to pursue your interests for very little money and there are ways that cost money. Not everyone has the same access and that's life. But these activities were not "tickets" to college. They got into college just like you, for similar reasons as someone like you.</p>

<p>Yes, my kids had opportunities that poor kids don't have. But by the same token, we are not rich. My kids have many rich friends they have met either out of state in summers or now at college and they are not in any way jealous. I hope you are not either of what some kids did in summer. We each do what we can. Become an interesting person. That doesn't necessarily cost money.</p>