I have a fear of flying (but do anyway). But I know it’s an irrational fear, which is what helps me fly anywhere I need to go and I love traveling. I prefer driving because I feel I have more control over my life.
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It’s always very interesting to hear from Americans using their own culturally conditioned perceptions of safety in European cities and getting confused because they don’t apply to other cultures (if they even apply to the US, as is being discussed).
More than once, I have heard the story of visitors suddenly finding themselves in the red light district of a European city - the perceived it as looking just as historic and quaint, and just as innocently busy, until they perceived the naked women in the windows and, well, the red lights, lol…
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A couple of observations:
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On the perception of violences in urban vs rural areas. All criminals need their victims. Violent criminals in particular need close encounters with their victims. In a poor but sparcely populated area, A would-be violent criminal couldn’t find enough of his victims to make it a “profession”.
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On the perception of risk for certain types of crimes. If a risk can be mitigated and the means of mitigation, at least to a large extent, are under one’s control, then the fear for such risk is greatly reduced. Certain crimes can be largely avoided if one takes certain precautions. However, there’re types of crimes that are complete out of one’s control and those are the most frightening, regardless of the statistics of such crimes. No one wants to be a statistic of such crimes.
I won’t question your right to feel more or less safe in urban or rural areas, high-density or low-density cities. Everyone has the right to settle into their own comfort level.
However, for someone who sees the logic in that quoted statement, wouldn’t they refuse to consider colleges in every single urban area? Once we include cities like DC (pop 700K) that opens up a lot of similarly sized cities.
That would mean eliminating opportunities in not only Chicago, NYC, DC, but also Dallas, Minneapolis, Phoenix, San Diego, Seattle, Denver, Boston, Portland, Columbus, San Antonio and many other cities.
I agree there are innumerable academic opportunities in areas. And I agree people can live a great happy life without ever setting foot in an urban area.
But if we also include Cleveland as the size of a city to be too urban to feel safe in, do we also have to eliminate from consideration every city with more than 350K population? Santa Ana, CA? Aurora CO? That wipes out a lot of great places.
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I am not sure that is quite how criminals approach their professional development. As such.
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My statement isn’t about how people should choose their colleges. My son actually attends a college in an urban or near-urban area. What I was talking about is how people perceive crimes and there’s a perception of higher risk of violent crimes in urban areas by some people. Unlike some posters, however, I don’t question anyone’s motive if s/he decides that such crimes should be a factor in her/his college decision. I hate to bring up one recent example of such crime and I don’t want to be accused of singling out one city or one university. A UChicago/Booth PhD, who was about to graduate, was recently killed in a random shooting, along with a number of others, while in his car in a South Side of Chicago parking garage. Events like this certainly could made some students and prospective students to rethink about their safety.
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INJ- yes, terrible tragedy. And a recent shooting in New Haven of a Yale student which the police and media immediately assumed was a random example of violent crime- which has now been shown to be an argument/violent fight over an ex-romantic partner (i.e. the shooter, an MIT grad, and victim knew each other, some previous issue, not a random street death). If this had happened in Storrs (semi rural) I have no doubt the police would have immediately theorized that the victim knew the perpetrator… but because it was New Haven with a different racial composition, the theory was that it was random until the investigation inevitably led to a different conclusion- and by then, the murderer had fled the state and it’s now a national manhunt.
Interesting how one’s preconceptions influence an investigation.
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Race wasn’t a factor in the murder of either the UChicago or Yale student. The Yale incident was clear to many people, long before police confirmation, that it wasn’t random and was premeditated. The two murders perfectly illustrated why one of them may be much more frightening than the other to some people.
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Reading through the posts this morning reminds me of why we knew our now DIL would be a great fit for our family. She and my son found each other while studying abroad in Jordan - each alone from their own college - and both thoroughly enjoying themselves exploring the country.
I agree with the pp who said people mostly fear the unknown - esp when all they’ve heard are the bad stories when something has gone wrong vs the multitude of times where everything has been fine (similar to plane crashes).
Our life motto is we’d rather die young and truly live than grow old and have done absolutely nothing. That said, we still use rational thoughts and wear seatbelts (and masks now) - plus we don’t use cell phones while driving. Some risks aren’t worth taking. Others? Sure!
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I wonder how many parents discouraged applications to Barnard/Columbia after the murder of Tess Majors. Thousands of people had gone thru Morningside park the week she was killed. Dozens were in the park the late afternoon she was attacked. Statistically, her chances should have been pretty good, but as we know, that doesn’t always matter. The perpetrators said they targeted her as a young woman was easier to attack.
According to Columbia’s number they had a slight dip in applications after the murder. Approx. 2000 applications less so instead of 42K from the previous year, they had 40K. The acceptance rate stayed the same at 6%. It was a short lived blip because this cycle they had 65K applicants.
That is good, and I am sure many students will be happy there. But a high profile random murder can rationally lead to concerns about crime that are not race-based, which was the topic of this thread. Perhaps a similarly high profile random murder in a small town would do the same, but either there are fewer or they don’t get the publicity required to be high profile.
Roycroft, the NYC tabloids were ALL about the racial angle in the Barnard murder. White coed stabbed by three black teenagers. That was virtually ALL you read… and the coverage when one of the alleged perpetrators was arrested in a housing project- OMG. Reinforced every single stereotype on the planet.
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Most of us do not read the NY tabloids, nor care about the race of the criminals. The key fact for those outside NYC was that an 18 year old college girl was brutally killed in the late afternoon not far from her dorm. That creates a rational perception of danger.
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I don’t expect anything better from the sensational tabloids. However, stereotyping isn’t just in one direction. We also need to avoid stereotyping people who are truly concerned about their own or their children’s safety, whether we agree with them or not.
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As someone who grew up in a rural (though it’s since become suburban) area, um, no, that’s not really how it works. Plenty of crime in rural areas, as well, it’s just more dispersed (because, you know, rural).
But we’re talking about perceptions here, and whether those perceptions are affected by the racial makeup of the surroundings. So unless you’re making the false but widespread shortcut—and given what you’ve posted on this thread, I’m pretty certain you aren’t—of city=Black/country=white, I don’t see what this is saying about those perceptions.
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INJ- just take out the word “truly” from your post and I’ll like it for the next month.
Surely you aren’t implying that folks who are comfortable taking public transportation in cities where you would not, or who live in places you are not, or whose children attend colleges where you don’t want to send your kids aren’t “truly concerned” with their own or their children’s safety?
I am truly concerned with my children’s safety. None of them were allowed to drive a car with a friend in it until they had all had their licenses for a year- because our insurance agent showed us the statistics on new drivers alone vs. new drivers with a peer in the car. My friends and neighbors thought I was nuts. But a 17 year old is more likely to get into a serious car accident than to get assaulted in a subway station in a “bad” neighborhood. I picked up my kids from parties and friends houses long after every other parent was fine with “big brother Mike” (who had been driving for a week) taking everyone home. I bought fire extinguishers for their dorm kitchens, I could go on for a week. I am the most neurotic parent I know, and am “truly” concerned for my kids safety.
But I grew up in a diverse, urban environment and so I have a different risk profile than other people.
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You’re implying that the police didn’t arrest the suspect initially because it assumed the killing was random in a town with a high African American population and the suspect didn’t fit their racial profile. That’s simply not ture. The New Haven police didn’t know the vehicle was stolen when it first encountered the suspect at the junk yard and had no reason or evidence to arrest him (the suspect didn’t have any prior criminal record either). When the police was later informed about the stolen car, they went back to the Best Western but the suspect never returned and had already fled.
I’m sure almost all parents, and all posters here, are truly concerned about their children’s safety. But each of us has different tolerance for risk. Who are we to say to another parent that s/he should have the same risk tolerance as we? Besides, how do we know that any of them have some motivation other than concern for their children?
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Different people also have different (and not necessarily realistic) assessments of risk. A common example is flying scheduled commercial airlines versus driving a car. A common college and crime example is assault (sexual or otherwise) walking across campus or on the street versus at (or near or immediately after) a raging drinking party.
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