Perception may or may not be reality. Perception also may not be universally shared. One may or may not be personally affected on one’s own street, block, immediate neighborhood, or frequently traveled routes, but if there’s a perception, there’s always some reason behind it.
Not all crimes generate the same fear, so aggregate statistics don’t always matter. Some crimes generate more fear. For example, a premeditated murder doesn’t generate the same fear as a random killing. If these random killings happen frequently in certain areas, ordinary citizens, or at least a significant portion of them, are rightly fearful and will try to avoid these areas if they can (and understandably, not all of them can). Who can blame them?
This is what brings us back @blossom’s first statement - that the same number of the same crimes generates more fear when the majority of the residents in the area are PoC.
There does not seem to be a consensus about that, nor does there seem to be a consensus about which areas are actually scary and to be avoided.
SO we are going round and round, arguing against or in favor of different cities, most recently it’s Chicago, though Baltimore has been covered, and it is about time to move on to another city.
Somehow, though, Chicago, like it’s namesake university, seems to elicit more extreme responses than other places.
I don’t disagree with this-- but pointing out that sometimes the reason is a 30 year old memory, a 20 year old, now debunked statistic, or just an irrational fear that majority Black or Puerto Rican or Mexican neighborhoods are more dangerous than white neighborhoods.
Just something to consider before you tag a place “dangerous”.
Oh, I know - it is pretty obvious that you were speaking in very general terms. My mention of Chicago was merely because that is the present topic of discussion, not because I felt that you were commenting about Chicago.
I do disagree with it, at least in the implication that there’s always a reason rooted in the “facts on the ground”, so to speak.
If there’s one thing that I’ve learned from a career doing research into human behavior, it’s that human beings don’t perceive the world around them in highly rational ways, and that when people say they’re operating according to logic or common sense, the resulting interpretation of the inputs they receive doesn’t actually match the reality very closely much of the time.
So yeah, there may always be a reason for a person’s perception in a technical sense, but there isn’t always a reason in the “based on reason” sense.
dfbdfb- thank you for challenging my comment and you have summarized exactly what I was trying to say, but of course, with your customary clarity!
It always confounds me when people obsess over minute (and likely not statistically significant) differences in rapes/sexual assaults when comparing different colleges. They do NOT want to hear that rape as a crime is woefully under-reported, even today. (ask any attending ER physician. Patient is treated, obvious traumatic injuries, patient declines to report). They do NOT want to hear that many victims know their assailant-- either casually (sat next to a guy in a lecture, so felt “safe” going to his room, OR a partner). They want to be reassured that a rural campus is much safer than its urban counterpart.
Who is to judge what’s rational for one human or another? What one perceives to be rational may not be so rational to another. If people saw or heard a series of random killings and some of them became fearful, are they not rational? Behavioral science isn’t an exact science. Human beings are complicated and they perceive and bahave in ways that are based on their own individual experiences.
As I’m reading it my mind is coming up with “rational thinking” (or lack thereof) being something similar to how many people are scared to fly because it’s “too dangerous” vs texting and driving (or even just driving) which many do without thought. (All pre-Covid.) In reality, it’s far more dangerous driving, esp if one adds texting to it.
Well, sure, but in the context of this discussion it’s only trivially true.
When people are talking about risks of being a crime victim in various areas and prioritizing their own feelings over actual crime statistics, that’s pretty clearly not matching reality in rational ways.
The crime statistics do not take into account the hassle factor, or, how likely is it that a young woman traveling alone will be approached, harassed, catcalled, or otherwise made to feel uncomfortable/unsafe. Perhaps some men are barely aware of how often this occurs and the stress it induces. Not captured by the statistics, but it certainly made me feel some places were unsafe.
Not at all,@ucbalumnus, I would have expected it at Fraternity rows. No, just walking on the streets or on the subways on DC and NYC ( both places I lived for decades). And since one never knew whether this was just some obnoxious person who wasn’t serious, or a more severe threat, one had to take them all seriously. Looking back on it, I am stunned at how much abuse there was, tho eventually becoming middle-aged afforded me a great deal of protection. A reminder that others may be experiencing quite a different reality than you.
I am not picking on you but just reading this whole thread now. My son took a college class 4 years ago at Richard Daley College, physics 2 since it was one of the few community College courses that would transfer to University of Michigan. He took the train from Wrigley area to the Bus then directly down to Richard Daley community College. The next stop is Midway (or two I forget)… Absolutely no issues… Ever…
We also (prior to pandemic) have taken the brown line to downtown transfer to go to Midway… Again, not sure what the issues are. Same with going to ohare. Bus to Blue line to Ohare. For years and years… Never a problem. Plus it’s not just me. Lots of people take these routes.
Neither college men nor middle aged adults are the most frequent victims of sexual harassment/threats. I do not doubt your son was safe, just questioning whether a girl 16-25 traveling alone would be. I usually was, but not always, and it is the exceptions that I remember to this day and the perceptions that resulted.
Well, I did too, for many, many years. But incidents do happen and they can change one’s perception. One difference was that in the cities I was walking/sitting, and thus more exposed and vulnerable. In rural areas I was more likely to be in a car, and thus felt that I had a means of escape. One would have thought a reasonably full subway would have provided protection, but I have found people avoid seeing or intervening in an incident. And I sometimes took the train at odd hours. But the scariest incident of all occurred at 8am when I was a teen intern on the train to the Pentagon, so after that my perception changed a lot
I also have one of those. From same starting point she visited friends in Hyde Park, Oak Park (green lines) and elsewhere by herself. Coming home at night. Again, they grew up in Chicago. Taking trains /busses etc is how they get around. Was I always thrilled… Not always. Did they let us know where they were and what times they would be home… Yes…
My daughter also backpacked herself through out South East Asia for 2 months after doing her study abroad in Indonesia for 4 months… Think I was more nervous about that to be honest.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be thrilled about the solo backpacking trip either. But some have a higher tolerance for risk, and the odds are usually in your favor…
My son had his phone taken from him when he and only one other kid were on the train going to school. We tried to teach my kid about train safety. He was holding his phone up high and sitting right by the door. The kid grabbed it and ran to his school one stop before my son’s… Hmm… His counselor knew the school. Called it they knew the kid and got the phone back. We also know of others that had similar theft. Rahm Emanuel kid was jumped for his phone outside of his house Mayor Emanuel's Son Robbed Outside Family's Lakeview Home - CBS Chicago
Zach went to school when they were younger with my kids … He’s a great kid. Shame this happened. Sure crime happens.
I have worked in the western suburbs, yes mostly white areas for 31 years. Parents are shocked I let my kids take mass transit due to what they “read”. They themselves never come downtown unless they work in the loop and take the Metro to Union Station and walk to work then back. It’s rare they go to the Art Institute of Chicago since Chicago is not safe… Huh? This was years before the pandemic and rioting etc.
Their kids want to go downtown and I have “helped” suggest areas that they can go to.
They also think since I live in the “city” I must live in an apartment or condo. They are shocked to find out I live in one of the many family neighborhoods that make up Chicago in a A frame house with 2 car garage and a back yard. Albeit much smaller then the houses in the burbs but that’s city living and prices.
We are afraid… Of what we don’t know…
I went to school in Detroit at Wayne State late 70s early 80s. Not exactly the mecca it is now with Midtown with $500,000 homes. Kinda run down but seemed fine to me. Went to medical school in Cleveland 1982 - 86… Not the mecca it is now but never had issues.
Of course we all have to be aware. My daughter went to Beloit College her last two years. If you read the crime reports you would think crime was rampant. Nice area and people. Certain blocks maybe you stay away from. Same in Detroit. Same in Chicago. Same in Cleveland. Etc.