Fashion Design - Master's or Second Bachelor's?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi everyone, I'm new here, I wanted to get some info about getting a fashion design degree. </p>

<p>I currently have a BA in Graphic Design, and after 2 years of working in the field, I decided to pursue my career in fashion. I applied to a private art school, and now debating between a 2nd BFA and MFA. I think everyone who studies in the creative field knows that a Master's degree isn't really necessary unless you want to teach in the future. Originally I didn't even plan about getting a master's but the advisor suggested me to do that since it's a more prestigious degree (I guess part of the reason of why she recommended it is because the tuition is higher for an MFA). She said both degrees would take about the same time, however, I need to turn in my portfolio for evaluation in order to know exactly how many classes I need to take to get a MFA (I need to take classes on the basics of fashion design prior to beginning my MFA study because I have no knowledge in fashion). With that said, I'm assuming I'll need 1-2 semesters of foundation classes. So it's going to take one more year in addition to the 2 years I was told the time a master's degree would take. She also said some people can jump right into the MFA after applying, but I don't know about my case (no previous knowledge in fashion), I'm guessing I will at least need to take some classes. A lot of people think I should get an MFA instead of a 2nd bachelor's since if I have to spend almost the same time on a degree, it would definitely look better if I have a master's. </p>

<p>In addition, the reason why I also wanted to get a BFA is because I want to learn from the ground up, since I have no previous knowledge at all. I think there are actually more scholarships/internships or exchange programs for BFA students, which is sth I think I will need, and they are pretty important. And of course, BFA would be cheaper! </p>

<p>So my question is, is it worth it to get an MFA or it's actually more rewarding to get a BFA in fashion (because I get to learn more about fashion)?</p>

<p>Any feedback is appreciated, thanks in advance!!</p>

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<p>I dont know how employers see you getting an MFA in fashion, i know that very few schools offer mfas, and the only ones probably worth doing an MFA would be at Central St Martins.
I think you should go for the second bachelors, most employers in the fashion industry will want to see you have a bachelors degree at minimum or at least a good amount of work expereince+killer portfolio.</p>

<p>I don't know what kind of fashion you 're interested in, but if you're planning on staying in the activewear/urbanwear, graphic design is the next best thing. Fashion companies higher a great deal of graphic designers, probably more than fashion designers.</p>

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<p>So it's actually not that necessary to get an MFA in fashion, is that what you mean? I understand what you were saying because I also thought the MFA can't really offer me what I wanted to learn in fashion, even tho they said they are going to place me in beginning classes first, but paying a graduate rate for foundation classes doesn't sound so smart to me. My concern is, if both degrees can offer me the skills I need to learn, is it better off spending a few more yrs for a MFA? Or a BFA would do just fine? The reason I posted my question here is because I just wanted to get some feedback from current fashion design students or people who are currently working in the field. </p>

<p>Also I thought maybe I would be "over-qualified" if I have an MFA w/o much experience in the field (however the school would provide internships for graduate students), and as a graphic designer myself, I know portfolio is everything, the school is actually not so important. </p>

<p>I actually thought of becoming an apparel graphic designer, but it’s usually not creatively involved, you are just going to work under a fashion designer or you will just be doing on-garment graphics... which is something I don’t want to be working for the rest of my life. But can a graphic designer switch to the fashion field w/o a proper degree? I’ve tried to apply for assistant designer positions but I didn’t get any reply I guess because I don’t have a degree in fashion~</p>

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<p>You don't need that piece of paper to be switched or to be considered for a position.</p>

<p>The fashion industry is rarely going to contact all qualified applicants, especially the bigger the company is, the less likely you'll actually hear from them, unless you have someone you know working for that company. I dont know what art school you attend, but if you go to one where there is a garment/fashion industry such as NYC or LA, your school is bound to get recruited from fashion companies. You might want to contact your career counselor and see whats the best option.</p>

<p>BTW just because you go to a school, people don't hand you jobs. In the fashion industry you have to be a go getter. The industry is very cutthroat, if anything you'll be needing to have some unpaid internships under your belt before you even start getting hired by companies as an assistant designer. The shcool I was attending, Otis College of Art & Design, in Los Angeles is worth looking at if you really feel the need to get an education in fashion design. The school works its students to insanity, but it does prepare you well for being an employee. Alot of major commercial companies come to recruit its students, for paid summer internships and offer jobs to some of its graduates, the unlucky ones willl have to continue on to finding a job, just like you 're trying to. So in the end nothing really guarantees you anything. if you can make it out of Otis, you'll have a killer protfoliol for sure.</p>

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<p>BTW, I was actually debating what would be best a second bachelors or a masters degree.</p>

<p>I dropped out this semester because I found myself most interested in pursuing a real education that makes me a more well rounded individual, than learning how to do a trade, and never having the opportunity to get a degree in something more broad. Fashion is probably something that will always be in me, or something that will interest me, and I was wondering whether finishing my BFA or getting an MFA would be best. And honestly the only school worth attending for an MFA is Central St Martins in London. I think the price of graduate school there is what it costs for undergrad here in the states, so you may want to look at that school. Otherwise, just go for your second bachelors.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your comment~ I actually considered about getting a degree at Parsons/CSM before, and I actually tried to apply to Parsons like one month ago, however, at that time, their BFA program was already closed since I was pretty late, and I'll have to wait one more year because their program only starts in the fall. The advisor also told me that they kinda decided not to accept transfer students anymore, that said, no one can enter their fashion program as a junior, not even sophomore, everyone has to start as a freshman, no exception, no matter how many degrees you have before, you still need to take all those liberal art classes (they used to accept transfer students). To me, it's just their excuse of making the students pay more, but they said it's their style of teaching, either way, I don't think I will want to spend another 4 year to get a fashion design BFA... so I gave up Parsons already. As for CSM, they do accept transfer students, but same thing, their program for overseas students is closed already, and they only accept home students. Their tuition fee for international students is like 3x as much as home students pay! I mean, I know international students need to pay more, but that's like so much more considering CSM is not a private school. I know it doesn't really matter since CSM is really famous for their fashion design program, but it kinda makes me wonder if this is something to go for as a person who already has a BA? I did ask some people from CSM, they don't know each other but all of them said it's not really worth it to get a BFA there, you don't need to pay so much to be taught how to design, all you need is the skills, and of course, i know when a school is expensive to get into, they must have something really special that attracts people from all over the world to study there, for CSM, of course it's the connection, and maybe the method of teaching... I don't know. They did tell me it IS worth to get a Master's degree there though, but every year they only consider accepting 3 overseas students, and these people need to be really good in fashion design, and have some professional experiences working with some big companies. So, I don't think I can get it, like at all LOL. Since I don't have any exp. in fashion design. So that's what made me wanna get a degree in fashion 1st, then if possible, go for the MFA at CSM in the future.</p>

<p>I did hear some gd things about Otis, and I AM still considering Otis, because 1. I live in LA, 2. it's not bad at all, probably one of the best on west coast. I also heard Academy of Art in SF is pretty gd, its the only school that has a show in NY during fashion week, and the show is mostly for their MFA students. I applied to both schools, the advisor from AAU told me to get an MFA since I already have a BA in Graphic Design, and also because of the show. The school hooked their students up with Zac Posen, Mcqueen, and John Galliano... and they also got scholarships from CFDA. To me it's totally not bad. I'm not sure about the school itself, as many people said it's a commercial school that would suck up all your money, somehow I think it's true, but consider the exposure and paying cheaper tuition fee, and afterall, you just need that one chance to have your things shown to the public, no matter what school you go to, there are always many talented people that will be the "unlucky ones", because they are "not as good". Sad but true. And every school also has mediocre students, so it kinda makes me think if it's really worth to go to a super prestigious school to study? I think it's really hard to answer this question, as a lot of famous designers didn't have proper education in fashion, but again, these people are extremely lucky and talented.</p>

<p>You said you dropped out this semester, so were you studying for a fashion BFA at Otis? Hm... how do you define "real education"? What do you want to go for now? But in order to have an MFA, you'll need a BFA first anyway, btw, are you almost finishing your degree or just started?</p>

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<p>Oh also, when I was looking for a job as a graphic designer before, I applied to a textile designer pos. at BCBG and I had an interview with them TWICE! At the end I didn't get the job, probably some other candidate was better than me. But it also made me wonder, in fact do I need a fashion degree to get a job!? It seems not THAT hard to land an interview, but someone I think most of the big companies need to see your degree in order for them to call you for an interview.</p>

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<p>Alot of students at Otis have also gotten CFDA awards, they compete every year with their portfolios. I was pursuing a BFA at Otis and reached junior standing. Have you visited? they have their fashion campus in downtown la, in the cal mart building if you're familiar. They have the stuff on the second floor, so you can walk around and see the student work, although for the summer they replace current work with old work as students take their stuff home. during your junior year and senior year, you work on mentor projects. mentors are designers and companies invited to give students directions of who and what to design for. they then choose designs for you to create for thea nnual fashion shows. you essentially choose from the mentors offered every semester. with in the last 2 years mentor projects included calvin klein, bcbg, max studio, libertine, disney, Nike, abercrombie, john varvatos gillyhicks, monique lhuilier, tommy bahama, nordstroms, armani exchange, juicy couture, and others.</p>

<p>i'm pretty sure otis will accept you at sophomore level if you've had a bachelors in graphic design, i dont think they'll need you to do foundation, if they do then make sure you tell them and work with them and say that you already completed a bachelors degree in a design discipline and as such dont think going through foundation would be necessary. no top fashion school tends to accept for junior level standing because every school has their own program. at sophomore level you're introduced to all the basics of patternmaking, garment construction, designing, illustrating, and TIME MANAGEMENT. its a very rigorous program, the connections out of Otis may not be as strong as its NY rivals, but they're there for LA companies, ie BCBG, juicy couture, etc. Some graduates dont end up having trouble finding jobs once they go to ny after otis. alot of getting internships with Big name com companies takes communicating months in advance before summer. i know when i was a sophomore i was in contact with Marc Jacobs and some european fashion houses, unfortonutaely for marc jacobs they started their internships during the time when otis is still in session, and at otis you really cant miss school unless you plan on failing. the european fashion houses had already filled up spots by the time i contacted them(and this was around feb/march) its always about being proactive and being a go getter. you'll realize this once you start being in the industry.</p>

<p>in terms of getting a real education, i was referring to learning for the sole purpose of laerning to make you an educated person. you can go to school to learn a trade, ie graphic design, fashion design, etc and you end up only knowing one thing, or learning how to do a job in a specific industry. you're seeing this yourself with graphic design and trying to merge into fashion design. I dont want to live life knowing that fashion design is all i know how to do. i think getting an education in something that makes me a more educated person is much more important to me than entering an industry.</p>

<p>if you give me your email. i can send you a job link to a denim company looking for graphic designers in la, its an internship for the summer, but its better than nothing rihgt? they are a fashion company as well but its a good way to get your foot in the door.</p>

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<p>No, I haven’t visited Otis yet, I know there are some liberal art classes even on the sophomore level, I might talk with a counselor to see if those could be waived. Do you know if it’s also possible to take classes in the summer? Are all courses available in the summer? Its suggested to finish the degree in 3 yrs, however I want to save more time by also studying in the summer, or is it ok to take more classes in one semester? Does every class have pre-req?</p>

<p>As for the internships, did you find them yourself or it’s sort of like thru school? Does the school help you in any way? I know it depends on the quality of the work, but what I mean is the connection. Did your classmates find internships easily? Would you mind telling me if you know anyone at otis who got an internship with european design houses or big companies here in the States? If possible, I’d definitely wanna relocate for an internship, like NY or Europe. How early would be appropriate to apply for an internship?</p>

<p>Well I know what you mean by “real education”, I personally had lots of doubts when I was studying toward my graphic design degree. I always found the meaning of art/design to be quite vague, I don’t really know if I’m actually good at it. I wanted to switch to something else during my 3rd yr, but at the end I didn’t. After 2 years of working in the field, I realized I can’t really get rid of design, it’s already in my “blood”, I know I can’t really be satisfied if I cannot be creatively involved in my job, even though the pay isn’t that good in the design field. I had exactly the same thought as yours when I was deciding if I should major in fashion design before college, at the end, I gave up fashion, and picked graphic design instead. I’ve always liked fashion, but I didn’t think it should be my job. But I was wrong, because at the end, I still want to do sth about it, I feel I’m not “complete” being a graphic designer. S o that’s why I’m taking this risk -- spending another 2-3 yrs + money to go for sth I really love while I also need to support my own family. So money and time are my issues, if I don’ t have to support my family, I would go study in CSM in a heartbeat. What do you want to study now? Are you sure you want to give up fashion? Well I’m pretty sure it was a tough decision for you, and you are old enough to decide, but IMO, think clearly about it now, do you consider yourself to be creative? I know designers don’t get pay too well in general, but it’s one of the occupations that makes you feel really happy and satisfied.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance , and sure it’d be great if you can forward me the link for the internship, I’ll send you my email in private.</p>

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<p>NY fashion is very much who you know. My sister has worked it for about 30 years. She started at a little start-up making the early puffy coats and went on to move up to major designers including Perry Ellis and Michael Kors. What really worked for her was a real deep knowledge of fabrics and pattern-making. They would fly her to Italy, the Far East etc. to find new fabrics to design around. It probably took her at least five years to be making decent money. She had both art school and FIT training. In art school she focused on weaving and fabric arts.</p>

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<p>Well if you took liberal art courses in your Bachelors degree for graphic design, they would essentially be the same or should be. Unfortounately the fashion program doesnt run throughout the year, they only do fall and spring.
taking your liberal art classes during the summer would be a waste of time, because at otis you're billed the same amount for taking 12 units to taking 18 units. they only charge you per unit if you go under 12 units or over 18 units per semester. some of the liberal art units you can take outside of class include math, social sciences, and english(if and only if you do it before you enroll at Otis, once you're at otis you're not allowed to take english or art history off campus). the math and social sciences can be completed at a community college, it just has to fall under the igetc requirements of the UCs, </p>

<p>The internships I speak of, is about husstling, and thats a crash course in wh at the industry will be like. YOu have to take the initiative in seeking those internships by going on every designers website, getting the contact info, emailing, calling, asking etc. The school does have some connections but like i said its only with LA companies, and there are hardly TOP DESIGN companies in LA. the school doesn't provide you with internships, they provide a means of finding internships through career services, but that doesn't guarantee you one. I would start contacting companies(if you're doing this on your own, ie hitting up fashion houses, at least by the december/january time to do summer internships)
ps i emailed you some info did you get it</p>

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<p>yea, i got it, thanks a lot!</p>

<p>im not planning to take any liberal art classes in the summer, what i meant was i want to start my degree this summer, so just wondering if there are any classes open in the summer. But even if I start this fall, would there be any classes during the summer next yr, or there won't be any class in the summer?</p>

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<p>well i think it's the same for every field, that we all have to take the initiative in finding the opportunity, i did that all the time even when i was looking for graphic design jobs. i was just wondering if the school would have better connection, thats all i wanted to know, and that's why I was asking if you know of anyone who got an internship with design houses in europe/ top fashion comps in the states, i wanted to see if the chance of hiring otis students for internships is high or no. but anyways, you've given me a lot of info already, i really appreciate your feedback!</p>

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<p>i know of some people who got internships with design houses in europe and top fashion companies, but they sought them, they didn't get help from the school, like i said they personally were emailing companies/contacting them on their own free time. </p>

<p>and like parsons, no you cant start in the summer nor will they offer courses the following summer. the program is only in the fall and spring. and you can only enter in the fall.</p>

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<p>Ghost,
I am a graduate of Otis Parsons, class of 1990, BFA in fashion design. Hell and torture are not bad enough descriptions. Of course you can get a degree, but why do you really want one? What do you really want to do? Are you a pro student or something? </p>

<p>I suggest you work in the field before you decide to spend all that money on something that may not help you. Anyone can attend Otis. Only one person I know, is still working. After I graduated, I found out the real truth about the garment industry. The best job I had paid $5.25 hour and taught me all aspects of the field, even washing out the studio when it rained and the roof caved in, as well as meeting middle eastern clients at the Cal Mart. Remember the lace teddy bears stuffed with popouri? I worked with the woman who made those. Also worked for Bugle Boy and a few others. I also designed martial arts uniforms (karate guys don’t have money, so don’t get sucked in). I had to work a job at night because what they gave me only paid for my gas. Do you really want to wind up taking and selling nude photos to try to put a roof over your head? Yes, it’s that bad.</p>

<p>Go to Beverly Hills and talk to Eduardo Lucero. He was in my class. I noticed he doesn’t smile anymore. He’s the only one, out of two years of students that I knew, who is still working. I didn’t know him personally, we just sort of passed in the hall and attended class together. </p>

<p>You don’t need a degree, unless you want to throw your money away. You need experiance, guile, and connections. You can work in the field, take part time classes at a community college and talk to other fashion students for the latest trends and dress all in black to fit in, if you really want to, and by the time you would have graduated, you will have four to five years experiance in the field, ahead of all graduates from Otis, and have conections to boot. I once worked with a supposed designer of story boards, who lived with her mother and spent all her money on her cloths to empress her boss. If that sounds like fun, then this is the life for you. </p>

<p>Go talk to Eduardo. He may have a better outlook than I do. He was the best illustrator we had, absolutely beautiful concept of latin women. See what he thinks, maybe even take you on as a mentor, if you are willing to work for zip. If he asks you, tell him Mary sent you, but he probably won’t remember me. Tell him I was the quiet one who was friends with Pat Porter(african american) and Meju Cho. I was the one who used Vivladi to sign my name. I was the one who congratulated Paula Courly when she won designer of the year for her peacock dress and I was the one who said “Not all everyone feels as you do” when he said she didn’t deserve it at the meeting about our attitude as a student body when she won that award. I spoke after he spoke. He might remember that because I was not very articulate at that time. Tell him I have real red hair. I remember the very short girl, who acted very self centered at that meeting, but I can’t remember her name. I remember how embarrised Rosemary looked of all of us. </p>

<p>He may just blow you off, or he may be interested and need help and that would bennifit you in the long run. </p>

<p>Good luck. Don’t loose your dreams but do take care of you. Don’t become a fashion slave and someone elses pittiful drudge.</p>