I’m starting to think about our February break plans (S26 will have a week off of school). S26 likes cold climates and snow, but we aren’t skiers (this past Feb we went to Oslo, Norway and the Arctic Circle, so we are not afraid of bundling up).
We have been talking about visiting Montreal as none of us has been, and I was thinking about tacking on a tour of McGill. S26 hasn’t thought too much about college, but thinks an urban environment would be ideal. He hasn’t seen any colleges other than UChicago, where he spent 3 weeks this past summer in their pre-college program.
I was thinking about renting a car and driving to UVM while we are out that way (we are from CA and it’s a journey). UVM might be a good place to see a vibrant college town—something I think might scratch the itch for an off campus life.
Then, of course ,there’s the more rural college experience… which maybe he will hate or maybe he will find unexpectedly interesting. I don’t know that his grades will make Middlebury or Dartmouth a possibility but I think it’s worth seeing the environment. Or, another smallish rural school in the vicinity (within a couple hours drive from UVM).
S26 is a talented illustrator who loves math and physics. He rock climbs and takes Japanese, too. He’s not a jock and tends toward solo athletic activities. Any small school come to mind? Bonus points for cute towns nearby for a couple of nights in a cabin.
St. Lawrence University, which resides near the Thousand Islands, which, in turn, straddle the international border, would seem to represent a nice school for your family to consider visiting on this trip.
There is currently some controversy in Quebec regarding funding for English language universities (including McGill) and tuition for out-of-province and international students. I do not know whether this will impact McGill or to what extent.
We did visit McGill a few years ago during February break and happened to run into the coldest 2 or 3 days that I ever experienced in Montreal (I lived there for 15 years). I suppose that this is one way to experience it. Otherwise I consider Montreal to be a very attractive and interesting city to live in for four years, and McGill to be a very good university. There is a lot to do in Montreal. Concordia is also quite a good university and is only a mile or so from McGill, but could be impacted by the same “Quebec politics” issues. The part of Montreal around McGill, Concordia, and Westmount is nearly entirely bilingual (I can go into pretty much any store or restaurant and start speaking French and they will immediately break into English, which is indeed a comment on my French abilities).
UVM is roughly a 2 hour drive from McGill. UVM is in a very attractive college town (or small city) and is a good university. One daughter graduated from there and has done well since. It can be expensive out of state but has pretty good merit aid for out of state students, and the NPC does predict merit aid (or did when I ran it multiple years ago).
If I wanted to also visit Middlebury and Dartmouth College, then I would plan to take a few days.
Strictly speaking you could also visit Boston (which has a few universities). From McGill to Boston is roughly a 5 hour drive as long as you avoid rush hour (which can slow down the parts near Boston quite a bit, and the parts near Montreal a smaller amount). If you drive from Montreal to Boston, UVM and Dartmouth College are right on the way, and Middlebury is not all that far out of the way. Renting a car in Montreal and returning it in Boston, or vice versa, is likely to be difficult and probably expensive. You might need to drive the round trip in order to make the car rental reasonable in price. Also check with any rental company about whether you can take the car out of the country. I suppose that you could also fly to Montreal, check out McGill, take some form of transportation (probably bus?) to Burlington, rent a car there, and keep the car rental to one country.
These are great ideas. I hadn’t considered how close NY would be but it does open other possibilities. Do any of them listed here seem to fit better for S26 as I’ve described him? He will want to keep rock climbing (indoor wall is great), he may want to keep up with Japanese, and he wants to study physics or math. With art, he enjoys working on his own but might enjoy a studio for painting.
With regard to OOS at UVM, my D22 was accepted and she received 18k in merit. It was a good amount and helped bring down the price. We didn’t get to visit since she was accepted other places she liked more but it always seemed like a terrific option.
I suggest your son take a look at Williams which is in the same general vicinity as Middlebury and Dartmouth. In addition to excellent math and physics programs Williams has a vibrant arts culture with three world class museums on or near campus. While there you could visit the Clark or MassMoCA.
Williams mountain environment and widely supported outing club encourage nature focused activities year round. The combination of academics, arts and outdoorsy pursuits is a common Williams profile.
I, too, thought of Williams, along with Hamilton and Cornell (which would make for a longer journey), but got the sense that OP was looking for schools that were less rejective than Midd. Bennington is another option.
The New York schools that have been suggested offer some similar attributes, but differ notably in atmosphere. For example, both Union and St. Lawrence offer excellent science facilities, which would seem to be reflective of the quality of their science programs. However, Union’s capital district setting differs substantially in atmosphere from SLU’s North Country location. To connect these differences to your opening post, then, if you would like to see a classically small, rural college in the deep northeast, SLU would provide this. Union, in contrast, might belong on a different trip, for different reasons.
I wouldn’t exactly characterize post-industrial North Adams as “cute” but if you do decide to visit Williams you might take a look at Tourists and Porches
@arcadia may be right that the OP is looking for less selectives which Williams certainly isn’t. But if the objective is also exposure to varied environments (city, small town, rural) then Williams would satisfy a lot of the wishlist: math, physics, Japanese, art, climbing and a generally outdoorsy student body.
Agree McGIll’s international tuitions look like they’re going up (as are Concordia’s) as a result of Quebec government policy. The current proposal (which has not been passed yet) says the government will take $20k/yr Can (ie $14.5 US) for each foreign student; universities will charge more than that to make sure they get money too. The actual tuition is still unknown, higher than now, still be significantly less than US schools. However, it is very disheartening as a policy.
Ok, I’m starting to think Williams might be worth the 3 hour drive from UVM. They also have a telescope/observatory that might excite my son. Indeed, the jury is still out on his grades but I imagine less selective schools may end up being more realistic for him given what I’m seeing right now.
But the point here is to expose him to different environments and while we can do that at Middlebury easily, Williams has a lot to recommend it for his interests. Maybe it will inspire him.
And @momrath, thank you for the recommendations! Nearly 20 years ago we stayed at Porches with our then-two-year-old daughter! I have a MASS MoCA magnet on my fridge from that trip, fraying at the edges. We lived in NYC at the time and loved our weekend there. I think it might be super fun to go back.
I drove from Dartmouth to Williams this summer. It was about 2 hours, but you might had 30 minutes for wintery conditions. We also drove from Williams to Skidmore, which was about an hour. Given your kid’s interest in illustration and Skidmore’s reputation for art, it might be worth considering.
Depending on your kid, this could be a factor as you develop and discuss visits. You are on the earl side of visits with a sophomore, but if you’re "in the neighborhood ", it can make sense.
Some kids decide to kick it up a notch in school when they feel like it might open up options that current performance might preclude. Others feel discouraged or that their parents have expectations for them they’ll never meet. Or they may just feel parental pressure – or just pressure! – around the process itself.
You might want to have a candid conversation before or during your trip about college in general and what both you and your son expect from the application process and more important, from the college experience itself. Kids get so many different messages on this from friends, classmates, social media, etc that might bring them to a very different place than where you are or would guess where they are!. And as you know from CC, there’s a pretty wide range of parental attitudes too.
Enjoy the trip. It can be a fun experience to travel together and see your kid’s future through their eyes.
I appreciate this take so much. I want to tread carefully with him for lots of reasons… he goes to a pretty competitive public high school where college conversations are the norm… he has an older sister who did very well in school and I don’t want to make comparisons or make him feel like we expect certain things… but then, he was too young to be interested in touring with his sister (and Covid shut that down), so he really doesn’t have too many ideas of what’s out there for him, and that is so exciting. His time in Chicago this summer was thrilling to him, and a first taste of independence. I know he will be excited to leave our Bay Area town so moments when we travel seem like a good time to show him what’s out there, college wise.
Clark in Worcester is a thought. Perhaps WPi depending on the math/science angle.
Worcester is not the small, bucolic college town - even less so immediately around the Clark campus -but Worcester is a train ride to Boston, is urban, loaded with college kids (9 schools) and both of the schools are well regarded and fully of very bright kids. Both schools tend to get high reviews (move UP) when people visit.
The Clark campus is nice and quaint with a mix of very classic older brick buildings and some very nice brand new facilities. Clark is a true SLAC and has more of the combo of art and math/science. in fact there are a whole series of majors that combine the two around interface design and game design plus the usual studio art, art history. It has a series of fifth year free 4+1 masters programs also.
WPI also has some mix of visual and tech with game design - both schools are top5 - has a super flexible curriculum patterned after Brown which is fairly unusual plus it is in a nicer part of town. But it is not a SLAC - it’s techy for sure which might be an asset depending on your kid. I mention it because the campus really makes you forget where you are and is immediately walkable to town which people like when they visit (whereas Holy Cross across town is a beautiful LAC but is a castle up on a hill and very isolated)
but if you do decide to visit Williams you might take a look at Tourists and Porches