Would love info about people’s experiences at NYU, Manhattan School of Music, New School, Julliard, City College. Also Rutgers, Purchase, William Patterson. Thanks!
I can talk about our impressions of jazz at New School and NYU. What would you like to know?
Do you have a sense of the communities there? Pros and cons of the size and other differences…how competitive versus collaborative? Do the students seem happy there overall? Stressed? Does it seem like only the top 10 percent at New School get the attention of professors, etc.? We will be able to visit eventually but would love to get a sense. Son plays saxophone. Thanks!
Son’s girlfriend is insanely happy at MSM, but she’s in classical (brass). They both say that Juilliard is reputedly very high pressure, very competitive.
You should add Western Conn State U to the list to look at. It’s in Danbury area, well-qualified people would likely get a lot of money, and good jazz program, with good people from NYC area teaching there.
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Son has friends with experience in all these programs other than Rutgers. With the caveat that this is second or third hand (and perhaps a little out of date), some impressions:
Juilliard - smallest of the programs, about 25 undergrads in total, and extremely selective. May only have one opening per instrument in any given year. Quality of students and faculty very high. I’ve found the Juilliard jazz ensembles to be a cut above anywhere else. Can sometimes be a stressful environment, but nothing like the “Whiplash” reputation. My son has found the jazz students/grads to be collaborative (jazz is an intrinsically collaborative genre). Juilliard name can also create opportunities, both while in school and thereafter. If you can get in, hard to turn down, assuming cost side works out.
MSM - also very high quality, some amazing musicians and strong faculty. Bigger program than Juilliard, but still relatively small and selective. There are a lot of MSM students/grads on the NYC jazz scene (of course, Covid has largely put the NYC jazz scene on pause, but it will come back). Not located in the heart of NYC jazz venues, but some good places to play in the area and easy access to the Village by subway.
New School - generally considered among the top three jazz programs in NYC, with MSM and Juilliard. Has a reputation for being less structured, so it relies on self-motivation. Extensive adjunct faculty list allows students with self-motivation to study with some of the top names in jazz. Also possible to slack off if the motivation isn’t there. Located in the Village near some of the top jazz clubs.
NYU - I’m only aware of one of son’s jazz friends who went there. He enjoyed it but ended up taking a path away from music after graduating. And I don’t see many NYU grads in the NYC jazz scene. Don’t know if that’s just me though.
CCNY - flies under the radar a little, but the director of the program, Steve Wilson, is great. Son’s friend there studied saxophone with Wilson and had an excellent experience. Don’t know the cost, but I would expect significantly less than the other NYC schools. Definitely worth trying to gather more info.
William Paterson and SUNY Purchase - I don’t know that much about these two, but both have good faculty and there are regularly people from both in the NYC jazz scene and they sound good. NYC is reasonably accessible from both schools (in pre-Covid days and presumably again once we get to post-Covid), though of course not the same as being in the city. I understand both are relative bargains.
I’d also make the point that so much of success is a function of inner drive. All of these programs provide an environment where a student with enough inner drive can be successful. I’ve also seen some great young musicians in the NYC scene who went to non-name brand schools (e.g., Portland State). Not that the school doesn’t matter, but the main goal is to find a place where the student will maintain his/her drive and love of making music.
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Thanks! Very helpful!
For anyone stressing over school choice (which is probably most people), I would read the above paragraph over multiple times.
There is no doubt that right after college, your school name may matter…a bit…for a few of the early years. It could open a door or two. BUT you still need to deliver the talent. And, others (without the name) will be getting experience and networking (inner drive) and will be showing up at the same auditions/gigs/etc. After a year or two or three, like many degrees, what you’ve done professionally starts to matter more than the name of your school/teacher. In some cases, the talent without the school name learns to hustle early…and the ability to “hustle” is key long-term for any performance artists.
The best school for you (imho) is the one where you can be happy, engaged and grow in talent and confidence. The best school for after you graduate…the one that didn’t saddle you with debt. Debt can be a killer in the important first few years out. The person with no/low debt from a lesser known school can be spending more time performing, networking and getting experiences. If you have a lot of debt, you may need to pass up opportunities at an important time. So be careful with debt.
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Bridgenail, this is very true! Speaking as someone who paid a lot of money to go to an MFA program and was saddled with a lot of debt…
Very helpful post! What year is your son at Juilliard? How has the experience been for him? Thanks so much!
@taggingalong, he was actually in the Columbia-Juilliard program and graduated a few years ago, and has been self-supporting as a musician since then. He loved his teacher at Juilliard, who was also a friend and a mentor even after graduation (sadly he passed away at the end of last year). He also loved playing with the ensembles at Juilliard and loved how great the student musicians were. As a performing and touring musician, he now plays (or did pre-Covid and expects he will post-Covid) with a number of Juilliard grads, as well as MSM grads and New School grads. And a handful from other schools including Berklee, Purchase, William Paterson, Hartt and UNT.
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Incredible! Your son sounds like an outstanding young man and someone our son could learn from as he is also a jazz pianist. I got chills when I read about your son’s teacher. Our son took a lesson with the same teacher during the fall break of his junior year. We were heartbroken to hear of his death. Our son is awaiting results from three of the schools you named. I would love to inbox you if that’s okay.
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@taggingalong , sent you a PM.
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I have a jazz trumpet 2024 who is applying to NYU in hopes of doing a double major with finance or Econ. I would love to know your thoughts!