<p>I’m sure Pizzagirl is distraught over this latest bad news you have delivered. As am I. Who possibly cares about this stuff? My Penn kid has no interest in Yale law OR in getting a PhD. He’s an intellectual pre-professional. Hopefully, he gets a job. Stay tuned.</p>
<p>Y7ongjun, excuse me but, how’s PhD Productivity Ranking any important for any institution? are you assuming people shouldn’t work or marry (for women) after undergrad and just become doctorates? you’re no longer creating a balanced society if you think everyone should become a PhD holder.</p>
<p>
IBClass,
Is there a place where can I get A&S undergrad numbers conveniently without digging through each school’s website?</p>
<p>I’m not sure. IPEDS has enrollment numbers, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t separate by school. I dug through the data at the Office of Institutional Research at each university to get those numbers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>how does that work when women can only marry other women in 4-ish states? do women not marry guys who just completed undergrad?</p>
<p>it’s a weird world you live in.</p>
<p>It’s not “bad news.”. The majority of students don’t want PhDs so why should they care?</p>
<p>The smartest students probably will study math, physics, economics, or engineering, but business. That is why top universities such as HYPSCCCDB do not offer undergrduate business program. MIT Sloan offers B.S. in mangement, but BBA. </p>
<p>Here is your logic:</p>
<p>Fact: Penn is ranked low in PhD production. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl: The majority of student don’t want PhD.</p>
<p>Fact: Penn is low (16th) in producing top professionals (doctors, lawyers, and MBAs) at elite medical, Law and B-Schools</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: The majority of students don’t want to go to Harvard med or Yale Law.</p>
<p>Fact: Penn’s PayScale salary is low (Forbes, cost of living adjusted)</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: Majority of students end up at BurgerKing. Who cares about salary.</p>
<p>Fact: Penn’s faculty quality is ranked low compred with other top 10 or top 15 schools.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: Who cares, Penn faculty does not teach anyway.</p>
<p>Question: What is left?</p>
<p>Answer: We have Wharton.</p>
<p>But Wharton is 0.25 of Penn。</p>
<p>What on earth are you talking about? You’re putting words in my mouth I never said.</p>
<p>I studied economics and mathematics, myself. But unlike you, I see value in all kinds of disciplines. How thoroughly obnoxious to suggest that it’s somehow better or more valuable to study math or economics or physics than history or art or theater or French literature. What an uncultured boor.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yawn. You really embody the stereotype, don’t you.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: "I studied economics and mathematics, myself. But unlike you, I see value in all kinds of disciplines. How thoroughly obnoxious to suggest that it’s somehow better or more valuable to study math or economics or physics than history or art or theater or French literature. What an uncultured boor. "</p>
<p>Your dirty language make you an uncultured boor.</p>
<p>This thread is one long LOLercoaster.</p>
<p>^ Agreed. Y7 is a comic genius!</p>
<p>Although I’m not sure that’s his intent. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Y7ongjun, I am not sure what you are trying to prove. We all know that HYPSM are the top 5 universities in the US. Many would agree that the USNWR ranking of Penn at #4 is a little lofty, but one can make the same statement about Caltech.</p>
<p>However, beyond the aforementioned top 5 universities, Penn is one of 10-12 universities that can legitimately claim to being among the top 10 universities in the US. It is on par with the likes of Brown, Cal, Caltech, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell and several other top universities. If a ranking came out with Penn ranked at #6 (assuming HYPSM were the top 5), I would not object to it. </p>
<p>PhD productivity and placement into top graduate schools are obviously interesting statistics (as are professional placement statistics), but they are not a precise indicator of quality. I fear you have lost sight of the big picture. For your own sake, you may want to step back and gain some perspective…you are starting to sound ridiculous.</p>
<p>^
Alex, do you always present your lists in alphabetical order? I guess as a Super Moderator you have to be a diplomat. </p>
<p><em>Note: You could substitute Berkeley for Cal</em> ;)</p>
<p>^hey, it’s callled Cal by ESPN and i’ve been drinking a tad bit. All I can say about this thread with proper fact is that Penn is a great school and worthy of a top rank. #4 is a bit high, but when you look at #6 - #~15 schools like Penn, Dartmouth, Brown, etc. come into play. There is more to an institution than the number of fickle 18year olds you can attract or how you place into a random PhD program. All said and done, Penn is a great school. Harvard, no it isn’t. Penn State, no it isn’t. Penn is Penn and that’s all it will ever be. It’s a great school. If it’s the school for you, awesome. If it’s not, best of luck.</p>
<p>Ah, drinking while posting on CC. What a life!</p>
<p>^It’s the life for me. I’m surprised that I typed words considering I couldn’t see my computer screen last night. I still stand by what I say.</p>
<p>I also didn’t mean to put down Penn State in any way. It’s a great school, but Penn and Penn State are different institutions, as Penn and Harvard are different institutions.</p>
<p>IN ADVANCE: my apologies for bumping this. I just wanted to objectively illustrate that all of Y7ongjun’s theories are utter nonsense.</p>
<p>Let’s start with a quote from our illustrious OP:
</p>
<p>This was in response to Pizzagirl calling HIM an uncultured boor - a classic 5th grade level retort. With Y7’s usual lack of the most basic grammar, I might add - all while disrespecting Penn’s claim to being a world-class graduate and undergraduate university. It’s a bit of an odd juxtaposition - calling someone stupid while sounding pretty stupid yourself.</p>
<p>TO THE FACTS, THEN!</p>
<p>Last year, 68 students from Penn applied to Yale. 9 were accepted, for a 13.2% acceptance rate (double the average acceptance rate for the school!). That should bring our placement at Yale solidly into the top 10. And if all 9 had accepted their spots, Penn would rank 6th next year. Not to mention that it ranks 4th at Harvard Law, and similarly at Columbia, NYU, Penn, etc. But as we know, Y7 painstakingly finds the data that will favor his bizarre, ungrammatical ends.</p>
<p>Y7 also ignored that its average LSAT was the same as Dartmouth, Columbia, Brown and MIT. Just as he ignores all data that supports Penn.</p>
<p>PLACEMENT AT TOP GRAD SCHOOLS:</p>
<p>the WSJ study is statistical garbage. They should have looked at all top-10 law, business and medical schools - they did not do so. Had they, Penn would have undoubtedly ranked in the top 10, certainly above Chicago and tied with Columbia, if not better.</p>
<p>JOBS:</p>
<p>Simply read CMBurns’s post - this is the truth of the matter.</p>
<p>PHD PROGRAMS:</p>
<p>On another thread, I carefully enumerated the elite universities that Penn students from the most recent two graduating classes were attending for PhDs: out of the 40 who were pursuing PhDs, they included 30 to Harvard, Yale, Columbia, and the other elites. Including 2 to the top physics programs at Stanford and UC Santa Barbara! Are these worse than Harvard’s physics? In fact, they’re commonly known to be BETTER. Y7 is full of crap.</p>
<p>Y7ongjun: one last thing.</p>
<p>In perhaps the ONLY TRULY OBJECTIVE ranking you might find for undergraduate schools based purely on performance, here you go: The top schools by LSAT score.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>OH NO! Your lovely UChicago was outperformed by Penn! Which also somehow managed to tie with Columbia, and only 1 point below Stanford!!!</p>
<p>LOL@ your ridiculous, empty arguments.</p>