<p>Yale Law School is considered by many as the best, most prestigious, and the hardest to get into law school in the country. Here is the number of students represented from various colleges at current Yale Law School student body:</p>
<p>Rank College #Students at Yale_Law
1 Yale University (82)
2 Harvard University (63)
3. Stanford University (36)
4. Columbia University (26)
5. Brown University (20)
6. Princeton University (17)
7. Dartmouth College (14)
8. Duke University (14)
9. University of California at Berkeley (14)
10 University of Chicago (13)
10. University of Pennsylvania (13)
11. University of Michigan at Ann Arbor (12) </p>
<p>The #4 ranked Penn by US NEWS does not compete as well as Stanford, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, or UChicago. If we adjust by college size, Penn performs even worse than the above mentioned colleges. </p>
<p>Similar to my observation and post on placement to CalTech Physics PhD program, Penn is not doing well, especially when one do size adjustment. Penn is more than or about twice the size of Princeton, UChicago, Dartmouth, Brown or Columbia.</p>
<p>One can say that Penn students want to make money, and thus do not bother applying to CalTech physics program. A law degree from Yale means more money and prestige than an MBA from Wharton. </p>
<p>How do you explain that tanford, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, or UChicago can do better in placing top students to both top PhD program and top law school?</p>
<p>Small sample size, plus Yale is obviously going to win.</p>
<p>EDIT: Last time I checked the majority of students were not in college to go to Yale Law or become a Caltech Physics PhD. What’s with all these small-sample-size rankings trying to replace US News?</p>
<p>“One can say that Penn students want to make money, and thus do not bother applying to CalTech physics program. A law degree from Yale means more money and prestige than an MBA from Wharton.”</p>
<p>Um…what? Why assume Penn students are greedier than any others? And what evidence leads you to believe that a law degree from Yale means more money than an MBA from Wharton. Or did you just make that up? Bill Clinton, with his Yale Law degree, made $200,000 a year as president. I would venture a guess that there are many Wharton MBAs who have garnered a higher salary than that. And why are you trying to tie this back to the Caltech physics PhD program? </p>
<p>More importantly, why do you have such an axe to grind with Penn? Clearly all you’ve done since joining CC is bash Penn. Placement into graduate programs is not the sole indicator of the quality of a school. You know, I can’t tell you why Penn places fewer students into Yale Law than six of its Ivy counterparts. Nobody has a definite answer as to why. However, I can definitely say “Penn sUxX!1!!ONE1!” is NOT the reason.</p>
<p>Seriously Y7ongjun, have you nothing better to do than single out one school you don’t even go to and try to find things wrong with it (with no success, from what I can see)</p>
<ol>
<li>Penn’s placement to top PhD program is not in top 20 for sure.</li>
<li>Penn’s placement tolite (top 5, or at least top 10) professionl medica school, law school and BSchools is not in the top 15.</li>
</ol>
What are you talking about? Penn has the same number of YLS students as Chicago and one less than Dartmouth and Duke.</p>
<p>
Penn is ranked #16, right out of the top 15. Brown, Chicago, and Columbia have scores within 1.5% of Penn’s. If you put in Penn Med in place of Columbia med (Penn med is arguably better than Columbia med) Penn might be ranked higher than Columbia. I won’t even get into the flaws of this ranking (some hurt Penn, others help).</p>
<p>Venkat89: What are you talking about? Penn has the same number of YLS students as Chicago and one less than Dartmouth and Duke.</p>
<p>Penn is twice the size of Columbia, Chicago, Dartmouth, and much larger than Duke. Size adjustment is needed here.</p>
<p>You re trying to down play the % difference betwwen Columbia and Penn, nd t the sme time try to argue that Penn’s med school is better than Columbia’s. First I am not sure tht Penn’s med school is better than Columbia’s. You are prob. using US NEWS ranking as a benchmark. My friend, US News is biased toward Penn. It is a point I am trying to make here. Show me other evidence that Penn med is superior to Columbia’s med.</p>
<p>Since Wharton is included in Wall Street ranking already, and Penn’s med is not as distinguished as Harvard or Hopkins med, Wall Street journal did not include Penn med in its ranking to avoid double bias.</p>
<p>^I can’t prove that Penn med is better than Columbia, but I also can’t prove that it is worse. I’d say they are probably the same. In the comment section on the WSJ ranking they note that Penn med has tons of Penn students, something worth noting if Penn med is a top med school that for whatever reason didn’t make the cut.</p>
<p>They might want to avoid counting Penn med for double bias, but have no problem counting Yale med when they could easily put Penn, WashU, Duke, Stanford, and other schools. Yale Law is already included, so maybe that puts in a bias for Yale which you don’t seem to have a problem with.
They also include Michigan law instead of other notable law schools (not that it really helps or hurts Penn).</p>
<p>FOR ALL PEOPLE READING THIS THREAD: look at Y7ongjun’s post history. Obviously rejected by Penn and has since dedicated his life to putting it down. Sad, but humorous :)</p>
<p>Cornell would fare better if we excluded the schools that Yale Law or Harvard Business wouldn’t be relevant to (e.g. agriculture, hotel administration).</p>
<p>“Penn is twice the size of Columbia, Chicago, Dartmouth, and much larger than Duke. Size adjustment is needed here.”</p>
<p>Yes, size adjustment is needed—when you consider the ~550 Wharton students per class who will rarely apply to law school, the ~125 nursing students who probably never do either. It’s only fair when you consider the above schools only have Arts and Sciences and engineering programs for undergrad. That leaves Penn with around 1700 students.</p>
<p>To be fair, Penn was the worst ivy just a few years back, having acceptance rate in the 50% and ranked outside the top 20.<br>
How did it improve so much in a short time? By gaming the system, of course.<br>
Obviously its reputation still stucks in the early 90s for most academic circle.</p>
<p>^Penn did instill tactics like ED. Part of its problem was that it admitted students who had no real interest in going. Thats why it used ED heavily and only gives legacies an advantage if they apply ED. In addition, in the past 20 years Penn has done a lot to improve the undergrad experience and attract top students. There probably has been some gaming, but Penn has done a lot of other things outside of admissions to bring its ranking up to #4.</p>
<p>[U.S</a>. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/]U.S”>U.S. News Rankings Through the Years)
From 1991 to 1997 Penn was ranked a solid top 15 school, usually #13 but as high as #11 and as low as #16. Since '98 Penn has never been ranked lower than #7. In the three rankings before '91 Penn was unranked twice (though they only did top 20 or 25, not sure), 20, 19, and 15. It made the jump from being ranked where Cornell and Brown are today, to being ranked right bellow HYPSM and right above the rest.</p>
<p>Penn performed bad by objective, outcome based performance data.</p>
<ol>
<li>Where does Penn rank in who’s who. </li>
<li>Where does Penn rank in student award</li>
<li>In pay scale (cost of living adjusted)?</li>
<li>In faculty award?</li>
</ol>
<p>America’s Best Colleges: Forbes Ranking
08.05.09, 06:00 PM EDT </p>
<p>79 Virginia Military Institute VA 19,675 392<br>
80 Skidmore College NY 51,501 652<br>
81 Hendrix College AR 37,758 433<br>
82 Macalester College MN 46,730 479 </p>
<p>83 University of Pennsylvania PA 51,299 2,400 </p>
<p>84 Berea College KY 9,186 413<br>
85 Transylvania University KY 33,610 317</p>
<p>Along with others on this board, I question your motivation, which seems to be based on some sort of personal animosity towards Penn. It is truly a waste of time and energy and I suggest you focus on your studies, friendships, extracurriculars and family, rather than spending your time on this board trying to pick apart Penn for some reason.</p>
<p>However, I do want to make some comments about the Forbes and WSJ statistics. First of all, here are the factors that the Forbes rankings are based on:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So 50% of the Forbes analysis is based on RateMyProfessors and Who’s Who in America. Frankly, I think that such a ranking is laughable, considering that ratemyprofessors is a completely non-objective source based on those who choose to participate and who’s who in america allows people to self-nominate themselves. Do you really believe that this ranking is meaningful? </p>
<p>As for the WSJ, many other posters have noted that the list might be completely different if different graduate schools were chosen. Here is the methodology used:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So Harvard has three graduate programs listed, Chicago, Columbia and Yale have two and Penn only has one. If Penn’s medical or law school had been chosen (and there can be a case for both of them being in the top 5), then Penn’s percentages would be quite different. In addition, even though they have two graduate programs listed, both Columbia (no. 11) and Chicago (no.14) barely surpass Penn (no. 16)</p>