Kenyon is pretty high on our S19’s list so I’ve started diving into some of the details of the school a little more. I’ve discovered that Kenyon only offers 27 majors. That’s quite a few less than the other liberal arts schools on his list. Most of them have more like 45-50. He’s undecided about major so it’s not a matter of seeing his choice of major is available. Can any current students or parents comments on the limited majors available?
Also, while S19 loved the campus and the intellectual feeling of the school, we are concerned about internship and post-undergrad job opportunities. When we’ve visited other campuses, we’ve met rising seniors who already have job offers for after graduation and the career services part of the schools is always something discussed in the info session. (For instance, at Bowdoin and Grinnell, the kids meet with the career services department starting early freshman year and are required to set up a Linked In account.) At Kenyon, it never came up and the kids, although they seemed smart and interesting, didn’t have great stories to share about summer internships and job offers. There was a lot of talk about research and grad school but S19 doesn’t see himself going to grad school right out of undergrad. Any feedback out there on job prospects for grads and how the school helps with job placement?
@merc81 Hm. I guess it’s how you count all of the languages that are available as a major. S19 won’t be a foreign language major so those are a bunch of majors that he won’t take advantage of.
Colleges in general tend to stack several majors into single departments. It might be valuable to research based on number of departments as well.
As an opinion on Kenyon’s programs, they seem to be notably top-notch and broad across literature, fine arts (theatre, dance, music, visual art) political science and history. Most other offerings might be typical of Kenyon’s rarefied peers, which is also intended as a comment on their excellence. In sciences and math, Kenyon is basic, but strong, with accomplished students. Complete programs in geosciences and computer science, as well as perhaps an archaeology track, would enhance the school in relation to some of its peers, at least for some prospective students. Nonetheless, Kenyon does support full departments for the social sciences anthropology and sociology, indicating a breadth in these fields not necessarily common at smaller colleges.
@merc81 good points. With an undecided S, though, I can’t decide if it feels limiting. If he’s accepted, it will be up to him. I’m not sure how to determine the breadth of a field at any particular liberal arts school. Do I look through course offerings? See how many people in the department?
What does is mean that Kenyon’s math program is basic? Hm. That’s not a great thing for a student who may want to be a math major. So, would it be better to be a math major at Carleton or Bowdoin or Grinnell? I’m just starting to wonder if, in order to take advantage of Kenyon’s strengths, it only makes sense to go there if you’re definitely interested in writing or the social sciences …or maybe bio, chem, physics. Bummer that there’s no geoscience majors offered.
Kenyon’s sciences and math adhere to a core group of fields compared to some peer schools. However, within these core fields, Kenyon’s offerings can be quite interesting and diverse. Note as well that colleges such as Grinnell, Reed and Swarthmore do not offer geosciences as a major – and therefore also can be considered relatively “basic” in natural sciences in a limited sense of the word.
Top math LACs do indeed include Carleton, Grinnell and Bowdoin, as well as Haverford, Hamilton and Reed in the same general selectivity category. For an advanced student, the availability of three levels of differential equations courses (typically 1, 2 and partial) might serve as one off-hand indicator of desirable depth. That noted, I do like what I’ve seen of Kenyon’s math offerings. (As, I hope, I clarified in my first paragraph, “basic,” did not refer to this department.) If your son might pursue a math major, I’d highly recommend he arrange a correspondence with Kenyon’s mathematics chairwoman. I’m certain questions he might have would be answered honestly.
Some majors may be combined at one school, but separate at another.
For example, some schools have statistics as part of math, but others have separate math and statistics majors. Biology may be just one major for all areas of biology, or split into a small number of majors (e.g. molecular and cell biology versus ecology and evolutionary biology), or split into many majors (e.g. biochemistry, genetics, botany, zoology, etc.).
For math specifically, Kenyon has about 15 upper level math courses,but one is more like statistics (there are two additional upper level statistics courses) and two are more like (theoretical) computer science (there is no computer science department): https://www.kenyon.edu/academics/departments-programs/mathematics/academic-program-requirements/courses/courses-in-mathematics/ . Most (even core ones like real analysis and abstract algebra) are offered only every two years, so there is not a lot of flexibility on when to take each course. But it may not be surprising that the frequency of offering is that low when there are only about 10 math majors per year there.
A student who enters college highly advanced in math (meaning completion of college math beyond the AP calculus BC level while in high school) may want to consider whether graduate level math courses are available.
I have no direct knowledge about Kenyon, but in touring and researching many other LACs, there does seem to be a difference in major/ minor/concentration. Some schools make it easy to double major, while at others, Carleton, for instance, it is not really encouraged. Some schools offer minors in practically everything by taking 4-5 classes is a particular department, while others feel you can’t get deep enough into a subject with only 4 classes so don’t allow minors in those. Some schools are big on concentrations or interdisciplinary approaches. A lot of times it is really a difference in semantics or as @merc81 says, how schools count or bucket things. It’s probably way more important at schools that are more pre professional in nature, vs at LACs.
Did you look at the dept course offerings? It’s true many schools combine majors under a larger heading. But you’d want to know how restricted you are, in reality.
@merc81 thanks for the clarification. Do you have a student at Kenyon? Or one who seriously considered it?
@ucbalumnus thanks for the detail on Kenyon’s math classes. I will take a look myself but your analysis is very helpful. S19 is undecided but he does like math and it’s a strong subject for him. He took BC Calc as a junior, got a 5 and and is taking Multivariable at his school this year. He also likes so many other subjects but my husband and I have talked to him about double majoring in something quantitative (like math or maybe Econ) and then any other major he wants. We all agree that his math ability shouldn’t go to waste and a degree would be valuable to him no matter what he pursues for a profession in the end. He’s applying to some other schools mentioned here (Grinnell, Bowdoin, Carleton).
This year he will take AP Macro so it will be interesting to see if Econ is interesting to him. He’ll also take AP Physics so we will have to see what he thinks about that. And, after a whole year of Multivariable, maybe he will be able to decide if math is something he wants to pursue in college.
@lookingforward I’ll take a look at them today. Of course I know that LACs each have strengths and weaknesses in their offerings. It’s a bit tricky when S19 is so undecided. Some majors he has not ruled out: math, political science, history, geology (or some sort of earth science), philosophy, environmental science, studio art, creative writing, economics, physics, astronomy. I’m totally fine with him not knowing. He’s strong in all subjects. But I need to learn how we can evaluate each school’s offerings so we know how to compare them when the time comes.
FWIW, my cutoff for “not enough majors” for my own utterly undecided kid was 30, and Kenyon would have passed that cutoff. I also looked at the number of courses per the Common Data Set; Kenyon has 390, which typical for small LACs that aren’t in a consortium. (The Claremont Colleges have ~200 each, but that’s still nearly 1,000 classes within walking distance, for example.)
By comparison, Grinnell has 401, Bowdoin 416, and Carleton 372.
l am a parent of a freshman at Kenyon. She was thoroughly undecided while looking and applying to colleges. Unabashedly so. Some of the schools she looked at seemed to view this negatively but Kenyon seemed to embrace her undecidedness as an opportunity to explore new and potentially divergent majors and minors. I encouraged her to take a class in a subject that is entirely unknown to her. She chose archeology. Such is the value of a liberal arts education.
In regards to your question about the career center, I was actually stunned to talk with my daughter and find out that she had already been to the Kenyon Career Development Office (CDO) multiple times!! As I said, she’s a freshman! These were not required meetings or appointments either. Rather, this was a resource she felt open and encouraged to use. Additionally, students and parents get a weekly email from the CDO with available on-campus jobs, internships, and potential job opportunities. When she visited as a prospective student, both her tour guide and the student host of the info session shared about their internships so maybe it just depends on who you happen to be paired up with during your visit?
