Fifth year Financial Aid Dilemma

We have an unusual situation and wondered if anyone else has had any experience with this:
Our son is graduating in June 2016 from a UC (California) with his B.S. in Exercise Biology and is planning to apply to get his single subject teaching credential in 2016-17. He is applying to both a CSU (Calif State Univ) and a UC for their teaching credential programs. We thought that he would be able to claim himself as an independent this time around on the FAFSA and that we wouldn’t need to fill out the parent section. What we have found out is that most of the CSU’s (California State University) consider the 5th year to be just that – 5th year – he’s still considered a dependent and they require parent information on the FAFSA. The problem arises because many of the UC’s including the one he currently attends blend their teacher credential/Master’s Program and consider it to be graduate school. They state that the student can file as an independent on the FAFSA and the student doesn’t need to submit parent information. I called the FAFSA office and unfortunately they were not very helpful – I got two different answers to the same question. I’m assuming you can’t file two ways but wondered if you can go back and change your dependency designation after you have submitted the initial FAFSA depending on the results of acceptance into the programs. If we have to choose just one, any suggestions or information anyone can provide is appreciated.

I don’t know the answer because sometimes it depends on the advanced degree, so ask the schools in question what they require.

But have your son get some advice from CA teachers.

I have seen prople here on CC caution against getting the master’s degree right away, because if it’s between a teacher getting hired with a master’s versus without, the one without might get hired because they can be paid less.

It might be better to get some teaching experience and then go for the master’s part time later.

Are you saying that the CSU’s consider it to be part of the undergrad program (the credentialling)…so dependent for FAFSA…but the UCs consider it to be part of the grad program, so a student is independent?

Either way, he won’t get aid. Aid for masters at UCs is loans. Aid for CSUs for 5th year is loans.

Were you thinking that if he were independent that he’d qualify for grants? He wouldn’t. CSUs give Cal Grants and those are only for the first 4 years of college…and Pell grants aren’t for those with degrees.

I don’t think getting a job in Calif as a teacher is difficult with a masters degree, particularly if the teacher is STEM. My niece went from Cal Poly SLO to USC for teaching math (BA then MA) and had plenty of offers right away.

If your son is getting a teaching certificate as a 5th year student he is a dependent student.

He on the FAFSA he would indicate “5th yr./ other undergraduate” grade level and “Teaching Credential program (nondegree program)” certificate in the Student Eligibility section of the FAFSA. In step three of the FAFSA, answer “no” to the question, “Will you be working on a master’s or doctorate program (such as an MA, MBA, MD, JD, EdD, graduate certificate, etc.)?”.

If he were going to graduate school to get his masters then he would be independent an file the FAFSA to reflect that he would be doing a graduate program.

Why cant he finish his teaching credential at CSU and do the grad program at UC?

Or is it possible that the UC he attends has a graduate program in education for students who don’t hold a teaching credential and he do the whole thing there at the UC where he would be a rad student?

He may be able to wait until he knows where he’s going to file FAFSA because he’s not going to get free money either way. With the UC, he can qualify for larger Stafford Direct and Grad Plus loans to pay.

Or …better yet…submit as independent as if he’ll be going to a UC…but if he ends up going to a CSU, then it will get changed to dependent.

Again, either way, he’ll get no money. His only tiny chance of “any” free money is at a UC, so focus that way. More likely, just loans.

At a CSU all he’s going to get is a $7500 loan.

If he can’t afford to go to a CSU with only $7500, then hopefully he’ll get into a UC.

Yes to both statements in your first paragraph. Actually, in California, if you have been a Cal Grant recipient (which he has) and you are applying for a teacher credential program, then there is a specific form you can fill out and, assuming you meet their conditions, you are eligible for a 5th year Cal Grant (the key being teacher credential program). And this is indicated in both UC and CSU websites. There are actually a few grants for students interested in teaching; however, there are “conditions” that go along with this – one of those being that you will teach in a “low income” area for a certain period of time. Our main issue at this time is trying to figure out whether he should file as dependent or independent but based on what you are saying, it sounds like financial aid will primarily be loans. However, the Cal Grant is typically better than federal grants so definitely worth the effort of trying to get it. I contacted FAFSA again and they actually told me that the dependency question could be changed after submitting the FAFSA depending on the acceptance decision of the universities. Still not sure about this – sure hope they are right!

My response was directed to mom2collegekids

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Actually, in California, if you have been a Cal Grant recipient (which he has) and you are applying for a teacher credential program, then there is a specific form you can fill out and, assuming you meet their conditions, you are eligible for a 5th year Cal Grant (the key being teacher credential program). And this is indicated in both UC and CSU websites. There are actually a few grants for students interested in teaching; however, there are “conditions” that go along with this – one of those being that you will teach in a “low income” area for a certain period of time. Our main issue at this time is trying to figure out whether he should file as dependent or independent b


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ahhh…good about Cal Grants for 5th year if for teacher credential…that makes sense.

So…the question is…does he have to submit FAFSA by a certain date to qualify for that 5th year Cal Grant…and can the Cal Grant be used at a UC if it’s in a program that combines credentialing with a masters? I know that you’ve mentioned that there’s a CG mention on the UC website but does it say anything about the masters program aspect? would those credits get paid for in another way? or would the Cal Grant cover those during that 5th year?

Yes, there are TEACH grants if you teach in low income areas, but are those dependent on submitting FAFSA? Or can you just apply fo those w/o FAFSA?

All very good questions . . . and I’ve been working hard to try to find the answers to some of them including calling the universities directly (both financial aid and education departments) but I find that they even have limited information which is very frustrating… Although my son would/will be a STEM teacher, I don’t think he has given much thought to signing on for a 5 year stint in a low income area so I’m not sure about the timeline for applying. All I can say is that I originally thought I finally had a reprieve from the FAFSA but it’s looking like there’s more homework than ever and not a lot of answers out there which is very frustrating. But I sure appreciate your response.

The time frame/deadline for the Cal Grant isn’t something I have figured out yet but the main concern is whether to file as independent and change to dependent if necessary (based on the school specifications) or switch from dependent to independent in necessary. FYI, our son is attending and graduating from UC Davis – he is interested not only in their credential/master’s program but he also intends to apply to Cal Poly SLO (the area we call home) and they don’t have their programs combined – one of the reasons for all the confusion.

Here is what I would do. I would include the parent information. If the school financial aid department deems the student as independent, they won’t use that information. Right?

@kelsmom Can you chime in here?

You can file the FAFSA once as dependent and then go in and change it to independent. My daughter had to do this when applying for Law School - some university’s’ considered her independent, some wanted the parents on the FAFSA with her as a dependent.

I had to deal with this a few times at my previous school, when PharmD students changed from undergrad to grad level midyear … the students had filed as dependent, then I had to update them later to independent. I had to lock their undergrad aid so the computer didn’t back it off, change their program and year in school to grad level, then switch the active FAFSA transaction to the independent transaction. My suggestion is to file as dependent … put that the student has received a bachelor’s degree & then 5th year/other (the way sybbie suggested). That way, if the school considers the student independent, all they have to do is update the FAFSA to grad/professional & use that for aid.

My sister did a program to become a teacher and agreed to work in a Title 1 school to have her debt forgiven. How it worked for her was she took out loans and then loans were forgiven as she worked off her time (5 years). So yes, she had to fill out FAFSA as they weren’t grants but loans to ensure they really would work in the low income schools.

I don’t know how California does it, but how would they guarantee you are going to work in the low income areas if they give you grants to go to school and then you just promise to work? I’d think it would have to be some type of loan program with forgiveness.

The difference is for law school, your daughter is automatically independent for federal aid and is independent on the FAFSA. SHe should have been independent on the FAFSA for all law schools that she applied to (if you have other children they may consider her to be to be part of your household and number in college).

Depending on what school she is applying to in order to get **institutional aid ** she would have to fill out the needs access or the law school’s own financial aid form where your income and assets are required if she is under 27 years old (some schools it is 30). As a student in professional school your daughter can also borrow up to the full cost of attendance minus any financial aid as a combo of unsub and grad plus loans

Should OP’s son get a teach grant and not keep the terms of the agreement, it converts to a loan

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/teach#eligibility

Thanks so much to all of you for your responses and for confirming that you can actually file as a dependent and then change to independent if necessary (or vice versa). That’s what I was leaning towards and the FAFSA reps even confirmed that you could this but it’s nice to hear that some of you have actually dealt with this type of situation. I cannot tell you how many times this website has helped me through some confusing issues. If anyone has more to share, I’m all ears.