fighting the intellectual hegemony of the privileged in the admissions process

Applying to College
81

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And besides, one instance of brilliance means nothing with regards to potential. One instance of brilliance will not get your through college.

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<p>Hardly one instance ... </p>

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But how does that effect one's opportunities to enter college? America is about equal opportunity (although this is not true in a lot of cases), not equal outcome. Whether or not someone seizes those opportunities is his problem.

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<p>Rich kids don't seize their opportunities -- they are told to go for those opportunities. A lot of my poorer peers don't even know those opportunities exist for them -- because all their life they were told to aim for something else.</p>

<p>Take for example Malcolm X's bookie in Harlem, who is now certain to have had been innately gifted in mathematical intelligence [especially due to his feats with numbers]. It's why he well ... became a bookie, who collected thousands of bets on the numbers daily without writing the bets down. I mean, I bet you're going to tell me that the only reason why he didn't end up working on the Manhattan Project was because he didn't take initiative, right?</p>

82

<p>To OP, what's wrong with Singapore's education system? The primary school system is one of the best in the world. I know because I graduated from primary school before coming to the US.</p>

<p>Excuse me for going off topic.</p>

83

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Rich kids don't seize their opportunities -- they are told to go for those opportunities. A lot of my poorer peers don't even know those opportunities exist for them -- because all their life they were told to aim for something else.

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Your stereotypes dehumanize rich kids. Going on all your comments, you seem to think that they are spoiled and unintellectual people who succeed only through parental connections, help from biased advisors, and expensive therapists. This just isn't true. It's time to step off the high horse of victimhood.</p>

84

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If you want college to be charity than it will no longer have meaning. They seek those who seek them.

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<p>A physics analogy.</p>

<p>Two students are born with the same intellectual momentum, but of different socioeconomic circumstances. But the richer student has much less cultural inertia, because he socioeconomically fits in in all his endeavours, and because he gets encouraged to do whatever his heart desires. </p>

<p>The other student, of the student of the thick characteristic, must go uphill -- against the gradient -- just to even consider joining an EC if none of his peers have ever recommended to him, and when his parents don't value ECs or anything more than a C. This starts early in life. </p>

<p>So clearly it's the poorer student's fault that he comes out with less intellectual velocity.</p>

85

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To OP, what's wrong with Singapore's education system? The primary school system is one of the best in the world. I know because I graduated from primary school before coming to the US.

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<p>You never watch Xiaohaibuben (I Not Stupid) ah?</p>

<p>Bet you were always EM1 ... PSLE 277 amirite? :)</p>

<p>Indeed, the SG school system is very meritable on some accounts. PSLE Math is the most brilliant thing ever. </p>

<p>But entrenched culture among SG's top echelons also sickens me. I remember when I made the transition from a neighbourhood primary school to ACSI ... I simply did not mix.</p>

86

<p>I haven't read through all the posts but...</p>

<p>I live in an area that is very working class - I don't know anyone who is "rich". My immigrant/2nd gen students have accomplished a lot in our community, which does not offer a lot of the competitions you speak of, and were accepted to great schools: Harvard, MIT, Brown, Tufts, JHU, Columbia, Cornell... All of the students who do well in our AP classes are from backgrounds you claim do not push students to AP classes - our AP classes are dominated by underprivileged students from lower/lower-middle incomes. As is the top of our class, as are the extracurricular activities... Basically, you talk about a cultural divide, but I find that these students are extremely motivated to seek opportunities and rise in the socioeconomic scale. So... I have not witnessed the effect of which you speak at all; to the contrary, in my school, the students from immigrant/single parent/economically challenged are the ones who take advantage of the opportunities their communities offer them the best, and these students are rewarded by acceptance to amazing colleges, and go on to live amazing lives!</p>

87

<p>Heh, I am FAR from being the at the top of Singapore's students. Although I'm top EM2, I scored a generic 221 and graduated from a regular school, even though I have a friend going to Raffles. To the CCer's here, I scored 183 on the PSAT. </p>

<p>I do sympathize with you on your frustrations though, as my family only makes $33k/year and my parents are not as close as they had been when we were still in Singapore. I'm not struggling in school but I do acknowledge that richer students do have increased chances at having a better education.</p>

88

<p>We are out there Galoisien! I am a single dad AND a professional (estate planning attorney) raising two children on my own. We are not rich. I choose to work part-time so that I can raise my children. Money is not an abundant item in our household!</p>

<p>We do have lots of love in our home and education is a top priority! I read everything I can to assist my children for their future education. Lately, I am becoming informed about CC. I agree that the privileged have SO many opportunities (tutors, networks, legacies, etc.), but someone else's standing----affluent as he/she might be----is not usually their fault either.</p>

<p>What the rest of us parents (and our kids) must do is focus and research all our opportunities to improve our standing. I agree that we must encourage our children to accentuate what makes them unique, and that often may need to include highlights of the perils we experience along the way.</p>

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<p>JustStoppingBy is right about the dangers of television! My children at times have felt neglected because their TV and video game opportunities have always been severely limited. We parents must watch over our children and set an example. All too often kids do not receive the structure and unconditional love at home, because some of the adults are more consumed with material things!</p>

90

<p>"Furthermore, rich kids are born naturally with an iq higher than those of the poor kids, and the class divide already manifests itself in a child's early age."</p>

<p>Really???You dont say! So rich kids are automatically smarter? Where are you coming up with this???</p>

<p>galoisien, why point the finger at the rich and criticize them. You just recently (within the last couple of your posts) addressed your distaste for the lower socioeconomic cultures that "hold back progress". It's not the rich who are doing anything that is putting the poor at a disadvantage.</p>

<p>And please, go right ahead. Eradicate the rich. Get rid of those evil people like my great grandmother, currently 99 and dying. Yes, she and my great grandfather (died in '02) obviously deserve it, huh? Why wouldnt they? Afterall, Joe (my great grandpa) was the richest guy I ever met, 'owned the largest ship building company in Northern California, perhaps even the entire west coast, during World War II. Greatest man I ever met. There's actually a prof. at Johns Hopkins University that has wrote two books about how great my great gramp's company was, helping out with not only the war, but revolutionizing the black community in the Bay area. Employed 1,000s of unskilled, black workers in his shipyards. Gave 'em safe conditions, benefits, and pay great enough to lift a ridiculous proportion of his workers out of poverty and into the middle class. And from there their whole families were changed. Generations of poverty were broken by his rich leadership, and still today such african-american families are still thriving today.</p>

<p>So yes, lets eradicate wealth and the rich. Once that happens we are all truly ****ed! No heroic proponents of the American Dream. Just the middle class and the poor class, the middle too poor to help out anyone without become poor themselves.</p>

<p>It's just ridiculous. Society without the wealthy is a society with millions more impoverished.</p>

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<p>Once you get rid of the upper class ,the middle class will simply fill the void anyway ;)</p>

<p>Communism to that extent will never work.</p>

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<p>So Galo, what exactly is your plan to fill this cultural void. I mean, you do intend to do something besides complain about it right? What is your plan?</p>

93

<p>First of all, please do not use the word "retards". As someone with a brother who is a high-functioning autistic and has been casually labeled a "retard", I can tell you that it is a highly offensive term.</p>

<p>But now, on to the heart of the matter. Honestly, I think you're making incredibly blanketed statements about rich people. </p>

<p>I don't think most rich people are nearly as vapid or materialistic as you seem to think they are. I could tell you endless stories about the wonderful, generous people I know who come from wealthy backgrounds. I know wealthy people who started orphanages in Cambodia, run schools in Africa, and left their entire estates to charity. </p>

<p>I also think that you're being very hypocritical. You complain constantly about how your intellectual peers are not your socioeconomic peers:</p>

<p>"And so I find myself socioeconomically peerless in many of my EC's."</p>

<p>And you go on to complain about how the wealthy people at your school self-segregate:</p>

<p>"You wealthy people do not seem to get the chilling effect of self-segregation which pervades the schools." </p>

<p>Maybe you should consider the fact that you, too, are trying to self-segregate. You label all rich people blindly, and seem determined to "Eridicate [our] culture of privilege". Maybe if you took the time to really get to know these people- if you let your guard down and got over the idea that owning a used car and ipod made a person the devil incarnate- you would find excellent people. </p>

<p>As for your argument that many people you know from disadvantaged backgrounds have no idea that they could go to college, I agree. You're absolutely right, and it's tragic that that happens. But guess what? It is not Harvard's duty to go around finding these kids and inspiring them towards greatness. That job falls to the parents and teachers.</p>

<p>The American education system is not perfect. It requires students to take initiative, and in many families, that doesn't happen.</p>

<p>However, to me, our system is really quite incredible, because it allows students almost unlimited chances. It's true that many of the students you described would get great undergraduate experiences. But if at any time in their lives they decide they want a college education, they can get one at a community college for very little money. If they succeed there, they can transfer to a 4 year college for their last two years. It's not an ideal education, but it's enough that with very hard work, I truly believe that any study with diligence and some intelligence can make themselves a good education, and go on to a good job.</p>

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<p>Cultural change. I'm a Left Libertarian btw -- change comes from the grassroots-up, not top-down. I'm talking about eradicating the culture of the privileged, not the class itself. The culture of privilege should not dominate intellectual activities. </p>

<p>You can't change the profit motive, but you can harness its tendency to promote allocative efficiency for social change (since often the aims of social utility and profit go hand in hand). Only this time the cultural priorities (those things which define "consumer tastes") will be much different.</p>

<p>My personal dream is to help create a school, that will start out small, that will recruit otherwise promising students from the low-income strata from the very beginning of their lives, and if necessary find ways to fight the inertia of home environments. The power of teacher-student communication at home through blogs as I have witnessed in Singapore has yet to be fully tapped -- dorms will be used if necessary. The values inculcated will be that of Lacedaemonian frugality, shunning and despisement of class and prestige, and the highest intellectual self-discipline -- the cultural antithesis to the current prep schools. Of course that is just my vague ambition. But the point is to put the upper class in its place: to have antimaterialistic kids who haven't always been sheltered by a life of prestige dominate debate and math competitions, and teach the blissfully wealthy not to be complacent in their laurels.</p>

<p>In the short-term, I am doing what I do in my current capacity -- tutoring other immigrant students, pushing them to be more intellectually ambitious, etc. </p>

<p>I know I sound like a naive youth, but after my having been inspired by my Somalian and Sudanese peers, my long-long-long-term life goal is to find allies to combine the profit motive and education to fuel economic and political change. Economic reform will not come about through mere charity, but a systemic change in cultural institutions. Funding orphanages is one thing -- but charity initiatives will only work they contribute to an effort to systemically change the underlying culture. </p>

<p>Note what great effect the Islamic Courts Union was having -- they were on the verge of unifying southern Somalia, because they had set up a rule of law, because they had set up <em>schools</em> which influenced the culture to support them. Of course paranoia of Islamist movements pushed Somalia's neighbours (no doubt encouraged by you Americans) to intervene. </p>

<p>Now, one of the reasons why investment is strongly discouraged in regions like Africa (even though Mogadishu is a potentially very lucrative port in the Indian Ocean trade) is naturally security and stability. Education can provide this.</p>

<p>If the creativity found in the American system and the rigour and discipline of the Singaporean system are combined, then a superior educational culture can be forged. Children end up being kidnapped to become child soldiers for warlords -- which is a waste of potential (not to mention the inhumanity of the action). But in Singapore, a certain military-like rigour was instilled into us, what with the National Cadet Corps and all, and taking a leaf from my country's nation-building programme in the 50s and 60s (which by the way, came from Dutch, German and Israeli experts) social change can be fostered in the children, who will grow up not only with intellectual discipline and the values of life and the theory of civil rights, but the ability to defend themselves against threats. (Not in the least because they will have such a camaraderie among them that will be stronger than any rogue lord would impose on his army.)</p>

95

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First of all, please do not use the word "retards". As someone with a brother who is a high-functioning autistic and has been casually labeled a "retard", I can tell you that it is a highly offensive term.

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<p>I know this! Do you not think I know that very sentiment! </p>

<p>What I felt from that student's caretakers was that they did not respect him very much, not in the least because they didn't recognise his intellectual potential. </p>

<p>So it is only karma that they get from me the condescension and contempt that they imposed on him. Because they thought him a "retard" (he was not), ironically his caretakers are the true retards (for they were truly slow).</p>

<p>Justice++</p>

96

<p>@galoisien</p>

<p>I'm a right libertarian and I think change comes from the bottom-up as well.</p>

<p>Still, I think you feel that privilege to a better education is wrong. If you read my previous post, you will see that a child's early life is not chosen for the most part and attempting to correct for these economic differences would also have you correct for the biological differences (e.g. one is shorter than another) which is a naive and arrogant plan.</p>

<p>So what is your plan? Is it to force others to provide education to all walks of life? Or is it to educate others yourself? Or something else?</p>

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<p>First of all, the woman I know who founded the orphanage, who incidentally is an heiress to one of the largest fortunes in America, is doing there pretty much what you want to do. The orphanage is not designed to only take care of the basic needs of the children there, but also to provide them with excellent educations by professors native to Cambodia. Her goal is to give them a very real chance to succeed in life, and to potentially be future leaders for Cambodia, so that they might in turn help solve the Cambodia's problems. Do not assume that the wealthy do not understand that more than charity is necessary in helping the poor.</p>

<p>Also, I do not consider the word "retard" acceptable as "karma". If you thought their behavior was unacceptable and lazy, say that instead.</p>

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I'm a right libertarian and I think change comes from the bottom-up as well.

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<p>:)</p>

<p>Perhaps you know that left libertarians often regard right libertarians as allies -- they recognise many principles that left libertarians do but right/left statists do not. It's just that left libertarians have different cultural emphases for why they want to implement libertarianism. A good portion of so-called libertarians have no humanitarian intentions and are just wealthy folks who want to be free of the IRS and have an attitude that we wish to divorce ourselves from. In this case "left libertarianism" is more of a qualifier and a clarification than a sect or a political division within libertarianism, much like you can be both a Baptist and a Methodist. </p>

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and attempting to correct for these economic differences would also have you correct for the biological differences (e.g. one is shorter than another) which is a naive and arrogant plan.

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<p>I don't get this statement? How does attempting to recruit bright students from the lower class end up correcting for biological differences? </p>

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So what is your plan? Is it to force others to provide education to all walks of life? Or is it to educate others yourself? Or something else?

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<p>If you're referring to post 94, my primary wish is to fight the hegemony of privilege, along with which the other things you mention arrive.</p>

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<p>so please explain what exactly the "culture of the privileged" is.</p>

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Perhaps you know that left libertarians often regard right libertarians as allies -- they recognise many principles that left libertarians do but right/left statists do not. It's just that left libertarians have different cultural emphases for why they want to implement libertarianism. A good portion of so-called libertarians have no humanitarian intentions and are just wealthy folks who want to be free of the IRS and have an attitude that we wish to divorce ourselves from. In this case "left libertarianism" is more of a qualifier and a clarification than a sect or a political division within libertarianism, much like you can be both a Baptist and a Methodist.

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<p>I don't quite understand the difference between the right and left libertarians. I don't defend businesses which rely on state power (e.g. oil companies, software companies, etc.) so I suppose many right-libertarians would call me a leftist or something like that. But at the same time, I do not care about culture or things of that nature which lack evidence. These sorts of things are not to be cherished or a source of prides since these are nothing you rchose. It's as if I thought I was better than others because I was born with tall genes. This is what irks me about left-libertarianism. It resorts to a reliance on feelings and culture rather than a rational analysis of the situation. By opening yourself up to a conclusion based on faith, you must logically accept any and all conclusions based on faith, even if they contradict each other.</p>

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I don't get this statement? How does attempting to recruit bright students from the lower class end up correcting for biological differences?

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<p>I was supposing if your plan's motives were to create equality by force.</p>