I’m an upcoming junior in California this year, and I was thinking about applying to some UK schools, among them Cambridge. I plan to go premed, and possibly pursue a dual MD/PhD. Would it be possible to fill the basic science requirements at Cambridge and then return to the US and apply to medical school or go for an MD/PhD?
This is a link to the natural sciences offered at Cambridge
http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/natural-sciences#biological-sciences-options
Not easily. You have to shop med schools very carefully. Some require undergrad in the US or Canada, and some of those who will accept a UK degree still want the core sciences taken in the US or Canada. Start with the MD/PhD programs you are interested in and read their requirements for students with international qualifications.
First ask yourself why you want to study in the UK. If it’s just for the study abroad experience, then I would urge you to apply to US schools that have excellent study abroad programs. Degrees from international unis generally do not go over well with medical schools in the US which are getting stricter and stricter each year in their requirements. If your end goal is medicine, you definitely want an undergraduate degree from a US institution. Otherwise, you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Cambridge admissions looks for people who are really passionate about their subject. If you state that your end goal is medicine (and keep in mind that medicine is an “undergraduate” degree in the UK), they might wonder why you are applying for natsci.
If you graduate from a foreign university, you’ll have to do a minimum of one year in the US. In addition, you’ll have no way of taking the non sciencd pre reqs (psychology, sociology, 2semesters of English composition&communication, a diversity-focused class.)
If you study in the UK, you should probably study biochemistry or something like that. Otherwise, you will study just all biology or chemistry, which won’t be good for medical school requirements or MCATs. In Britain, most people are accepted in medical programs out of high school. Cambridge is a 3-year degree, so it would be possible to go back afterwards and study for a year or two, meeting specific requirements, as well as those for study in the US. A Cambridge degree would be pretty cool, so it could work if you are willing to study afterwards.
@sattut, Natural Sciences (which includes biochem) is a 4 year degree, not 3 years.
There is a real fundamental problem with doing pre-med coursework abroad. It’s a more or less universal requirement that all pre-reqs (science, math, English, social sciences) be taken at a US or Canadian college or university. (There are only 3 US med schools that will “consider” UK degree holders for admission, but even those programs strongly recommend taking additional US coursework for best consideration in admission.) Additionally about half to 3/4 of US med school have a 90 credit hour from a US college requirement for admissions consideration.
The other major issue is that AMCAS, the centralized application processing service for allopathic med school admission, will not accept or verify transcripts from foreign colleges. Without a verified transcript, your application is considered incomplete and will not be forwarded to medical schools.
See p. 49 [2017 AMCAS Instructional Manual](https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fastly.net/production/media/filer_public/c0/f8/c0f8833d-a302-46c7-b726-1b153dbac6de/2017_amcas_instruction_manual-_final.pdf)
So, in order to be able to apply to US MD/PhD programs, at a minimum you’d need to return to the US after your degree abroad and complete a 2 year post-bacc program to fulfill med school admission requirements.
Also consider that admission to US medical programs (including MD/PhD programs) also have substantial non-academic expectations–including US clinical volunteering and US physician shadowing. Both of which would be difficult to obtain if you were doing your schooling in the UK.
Without the expected pre-med ECs (clinical volunteering, physician shadowing, community service, leadership roles, and substantial research experience for MD/PhD programs) you won’t won’t receive any love from med school adcomms during the admission process. And in fact, probably will get completely shut out. There’s a saying in med school admissions–stats get your application to the door, but it’s your ECs that get you invited in for an interview.
Now if you are willing to consider DO/PhD programs, there are 8 or 9 osteopathic med schools that will accept foreign degrees. The application process is different with a foreign degree, and you will need to contact each program individually and ask how that school handles it because AACOMAS (the centralized application processing organizations fro osteopathic med schools) will not accept or verify foreign transcripts either.
You will still be expected to have all the typical pre-med ECs, plus DO programs specifically require a letter of recommendation from a practicing DO from applicants. @WayOutWestMom, it sounds like you’ve had a lot of experience with Med schools and I appreciate the perspective.
What you say makes it sound like a closed guild system, far more parochial than I understood. I find it shocking, for example, that you believe a Cambridge degree would not be viewed any differently than one from a Belgium or Mexican university. If that is the case, the US med education system needs to take a look at its methods, but you make it sound so arrogantly self-satisfied that that would be unlikely.
Medical schools require 1-2 years in the US and pre- requisites that can’t be fulfilled in a single-subject system.
In addition, they try to take the best students regardless of where they attended - being an A student is very difficult no matter what college you attend, and the MCAT provides another evaluation point. This also guarantees students don’t all come from the same college and the same regions.
Most medical schools don’t even know the name of the college you attended as an undergraduate. A computer program establishes a cut off - say, 3.6 , along with their Mcat score - and those applicants are called for an interview. Only at that point do interviewers know you attended Cambridge before the two years where you completed your missing pre-reqs and got the good GPA. While they’ll be impressed, they’ll be more interested in discussing your medical - related experiences and evaluate whether you’re a good fit for medicine.
@MYOS1634, thanks, that is a really interesting perspective.
At this point, my son will apply in the UK (in addition to the US and Canada, for pre-med), where he can go directly into med school as an undergrad. I guess if he goes to the US, it will be for a PhD. He self-identifies as a European (at the moment), so if he practices, it would be on our side of the pond. At any rate, this is an economical option: he can get a med degree for about $100K total, believe it or not.
I don’t set these policies. The LCME, AAMC and ACOM have put these policies in place. They are the ones who require that pre-reqs must be from a US or Canadian university that is accredited by certain US/Canadian accreditation agencies. This requirement helps to standardize applicant preparation–which is something med schools value. Med school didactics cover a huge amount of material in a very short period–they don’t have time to remediate students. Also their accreditation is dependent upon their students passing national standardized exams all along the way. If their fail rate exceeds 5%–they can lose their accreditation. If they have too many students who fail a med school class & have to remediate, they can lose their accreditation. If too many students fail to graduate on time (for whatever reason including personal or medical emergencies), they can lose their accreditation.
Also medical education is extraordinarily expensive. Tuition (even $75K/year) doesn’t come close to covering the cost. Each student who requires remediation, who is required to repeat a class or a year costs the med school a lot of money.
All of this makes med school adcomms very risk-adverse when choosing who to admit. Accepting someone who comes from a substantially different educational system–whether it’s Oxbridge or UNAM-- is a risk–and one most adcomms prefer not to take.
AMCAS and AACOMAS have policies in place that state they refuse to verify foreign transcripts because of the different grading systems employed by different academic systems. (They have to process over 70,000 applications in basically a 6 week period every year; they don’t have time to deal with alternative grading schemes.) Also because accepting foreign transcripts increases the potential for fraud. (For example, AMCAS and AACOMAS routinely use the National Student Clearinghouse to check that students have submitted all of their transcripts from every college they have ever attended–even for dual enrollment classes. There isn’t the same resource for foreign institutions.)
US medical education is closed system.
As for the EC expectations–that again isn’t my policy. It’s the expectations specified by the med schools themselves. Med school admission is a seller’s market right now with 8-15 applicants for every single med school seat available in the US. Med school adcomms have the power to demand additional things. from applicants and so they do. ECs become one more item they use to help discriminate among dozens of fully qualified applicants.
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he can get a med degree for about $100K total, believe it or not.
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I'm not shocked at all. My daughters both attended a med school where the tuition is under $19K/year. There are a number of very good US public med schools that cost under $25/year tuition. @WayOutWestMom, if you are in-state, you mean.
BTW, @Alcibiades, some schools in the US have some direct/dual admit (usually accelerated) programs straight from undergrad where you are guaranteed med school admission if you hit certain criteria.