<p>So the original topic was schools allowing release if need not met. My oldest is a 2015 grad. He feels like he has to apply ED to get into the small LAC’s that he is interested in. So I need to do the calculator on the school websites and that will realistically be the number that we will be expected to pay? Merit is not calculated on those at all though? So any merit would be a bonus after that? Is there a better thread for me to ask these questions?</p>
<p>This hwole forum is about questions like that!</p>
<p>IME aid questions vary from school to school. Some schools do not have any merit aid at all! Some schools only offer federally-financed need-baised aid! It’s hard to say for sure which schools fall into which category unless you know the name of the school. I know that for some schoosl that i have checked the school</p>
<p>For example, I checked SWEET BRIAR COLLEGE as an example to see what you are talking about (though i understand that your son probably won’t be joining up there for obvious reasons!!!) In their calculator they DO include merit-based aid as one of the parts of the financial aid estimates that they list!! So some schools do include merit aid right up front like that whiel the ones you have been checking don’t. To get the merit aid my “fictional” student had a high GPA though so that might be hte issue that they don’t show the merit-based aid to some aplicants depending ont eh test scores they put in. Try playing around with SAT/GPA numbers to see if the number changes based ont hat on the schools that you are applying to!</p>
<p>@wrights1994, you would be given a package that included both merit and need based aid and need based aid is calculated on cost after merit has been subtracted.
You would most likely have to fill out the CSS Profile if its a profile school. The school’s FA department would use that data (which would be an estimate since you wouldn’t have done your taxes for the current year) to produce a tentative FA package on which you make your decision within some short window of time like 1-2 weeks. Either you accept their package or decline admission.</p>
<p>@wrights1994, yes use the NPC on the school web site. Most posters here believe the more questions asked (grades, scores, etc) the more accurate the estimate will be. However high assets or home businesses can really throw the estimate off. My #1 piece of advice is make sure your child’s list has a Safety school on it: one they can get into, will be happy to attend, and you can afford.</p>
<p>Even the most detailed NPCs I’ve seen don’t ask about retirement funds, but I gather that the FAFSA and/or CSS Profile does. I’ve heard that retirement funds are considered off-limits, but if so, why do they ask about them?</p>
<p>Retirement funds are considered offlimits if it’s in a official retirement account, but if you just have money in a mutual fund or a bank account that you simply SAY is for retirement then it counts. A lot of people make that mistake (FA Officer: “What about that $125,000 you have at Blahblah Savings and Loan savings account?” Parent: “Oh, that’s money for my retirement. It’s not available for college!” FA Officer: “Lolno”.)</p>
<p>Also, CURRENT YEAR contributions to a retirement account are counted because that is money you COULD have used ot pay for college but chose to put in an account instead.</p>
<p>I have also heard people who have had colleges actually decrease their EFC because they think the retirement accounts are too SMALL. They look at the amount you have in an IRA or something and are like, “DUDE you can NOT retire if you only have $10K in there and you are 53 years old unless you want to die eating dog food and living in a cardboard box underneath an overpass!!!” So they discount some of the income because they are afraid that if they ask for more you won’t still be alive to see kiddo graduate.</p>
<p>This is something that only could happen in schools that meet a lot of need though, usually ones that take CSS Profile and NOT just FAFSA.</p>
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<p>There are the easy cases. Some NPCs will have a separate merit calculator, making it obvious what’s merit only. Some schools offer no merit aid, so it’s all need-based.</p>
<p>Then there are the tricky cases. For example, I give you D2’s school. Run their NPC, and no matter how high your assets or income, the NPC will estimate $5k/year of institutional aid. That’s because they do offer a few $5k/year merit scholarships, so the NPC dutifully reports that as possible aid without mentioning that it’s merit aid. I’d guess that there are other schools that play this same kind of game. :mad:</p>
<p>Between this forum, the Parents forum, and the forums for any schools your child is considering, you can get a hazy (sometimes better :)) idea of how the NPC compares with actual COA.</p>
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<p>It’s not so much that they’re off-limits, more that most schools exclude them. One of the other posters here (cptofthehouse?) has mentioned at least one school that does consider dedicated retirement accounts, not just the year’s contributions. </p>
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<p>This I’ve never heard of–do you have names of specific schools that do this? The only circumstance where I can imagine this would be true is when the parents are actually retired. Otherwise, a school can’t really social engineer a family’s savings habits. Money is fungible, so money saved on tuition could just as easily go to lottery tickets or new clothing as for an IRA. Color me extremely skeptical about this.</p>
<p>Hs2015, FAFSA does not consider qualified retirement funds. PROFILE asks for them, and the schools eyeball them and they will use them if they are truly way up there. I’ve yet to have a PROFILE school give any firm and fast guideline as to how they use the info, where they draw the lines, but if you have a billion in retirement funds, it would make no sense not to take that into consideration. They have their own ideas of what is reasonable and what they will use and they don’t tend to tell you how they come up with what they expect you and the student to contribute. Boston College is the only school that I know of that out and out admitted that they use them, but they did not say how, what the allowance is, what their formula is. What most schools say, is that they are “generally not considered” or some other vague wording that means, "yes, they are looked at and used if we think the are of an amount that we feel they should be considered, but we aren’t telling you what the threshholds are.</p>
<p>Nothing is off limits when it comes to a school distributing their own funds. They can do anything they want to and they are not even always consistent from one student to the next as there always are some factors that can give reason to have different treatment. YOu aren’t going to have identical situations. However, most of the schools do have certain fixed rules that they us, as they do have to process so many fin aid apps in a very short window of time. </p>
<p>Schools use the NPCs differently. Some will as for gpa and test scores, and if you play around, you can see where the merit kicks in. If you run different scenarios in the calculators, you can get osme idea how they are setl. But if you look at common data info and see that merit money is not given to everyone and can vary, and the calculator is giving everyone the average, you know that you are not getting an individual assessment here, and the likelihood that your student will generate exactly the average award may not be very good.</p>
<p>wrights1994, One good idea-- particularly if you have an unusual circumstance like a noncustodial parent or a business-- is to ask the school’s financial aid department if they will give you a pre-read on financial aid. You would do this before applying ED.</p>
<p>Re: post 126…I’m with Slithey. I have NEVER heard of a college that is in the business of,providing need based aid, or reducing EFC to support parent retirement. That is just plain poppycock.</p>
<p>What about reducing the parent’s expected contribution because of their age? I think I’ve heard of that.</p>
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For FAFSA, as parents get older, their asset protection increases which may cause them to have a lower EFC than younger parents with the same financial profile. It would not make a huge difference in most cases. The difference in asset protection between a couple where the older parent is 45 and where the older parent is 65 is $25,600 which would make, at best, a difference of 1,444 to the EFC. Other than that, I have never heard of a student getting better aid because their parents are old.</p>
<p>I have never heard of a school awarding more aid because someone has low retirement savings.</p>
<p>Thanks for a terrific, informative thread! A couple of thoughts/questions:</p>
<ol>
<li>It seems the household income numbers REALLY need to be reconsidered by colleges as Financial Aid markers. Seriously, a family makes $200,000, pays 40% taxes on that so has $120,000 left and is supposed to spend $60,000 – HALF – on their child’s college education? So, that leaves $60,000 to pay for mortgage, gas, utilities, food, ballet, fund a retirement? WHAT? Where does that happen? Certainly not in California. </li>
<li>I have heard that the Net Price Calculator is not accurate if you are self-employed/an independent contractor. Can anyone verify that?</li>
</ol>
<p>“so has $120,000 left and is supposed to spend $60,000 – HALF – on their child’s college education?”</p>
<p>No; it should come from past earnings (savings), current earnings, and future earnings (loans).</p>
<p>Vonlost, I think you hit the nail on the head. Ideally we have all been saving for college since birth. Unfortunately with housing prices in California (and other select parts of the country) and the recession hitting in 2007 causing the decline in many people’s savings accounts, past earnings just isn’t reliable. And I definitely wouldn’t advise much more than the Stafford loan for anyone.</p>
<p>Unless more money is put into the pot, there isn’t going to be more to be distributed. It’s not an bottomless pot at all. Also, the prices have been going up and up and up. I thought this bubble would burst 10-15 years ago, and it has not. Until enough people refuse to pay the prices for colleges, the trend will continue. THere are some schools that are at that point where they have to discount their costs to alot of students to fill there clases, but the most selective ones have lines longer than ever, as the EA/ED application numbers indicate.</p>
<p>It’s the same old supply and demand. Schools will do whatever it takes to fill the desired number of seats; students will choose schools they can afford. Barring national economic catastrophe, I think the system will continue.</p>
<p>“students will choose schools they can afford”</p>
<p>This is the sticking pont IMO, Vonlost. Many are choosing schools that are not affordable by any rational measure. Loans are making it possible.</p>
<p>Yes about loans making it possible. And unfortunately, these student loans are causing our kids fresh out of college to be unable to pay for a car, an apartment, etc because they now have a loan to support. The starting salaries just don’t support all it takes for a kid to get out from under their parents’ wings. Hence, parents support grown children, they and/or their kids owe loads of money, and our country will continue to fall deeper into debt.</p>