That is absolutely the truth. Some win big … others lose out. There is no way to be fair to everyone.
@kelsmom , I was writing from the point of view of the parent who is non-custodial for one child and custodial for another child. Whatever he paid to the NC child he can put as child support PAID on custodial child’s FAFSA, right?
@eandesmom
<<<
whereas for my step children it is only their mothers that is considered (FAFSA only schools)
<<<
Sounds like your H’s kids got more aid then they should have (according to your beliefs) because your H’s income wasn’t counted. So…your H didn’t have to pay as much as he should have. He got a break because his kids got aid based only on his Ex’s income. Maybe with that thinking, he can understand helping you out.
Otherwise, you’re essentially saying that only one parent’s income should be counted no matter what the situation is. If that’s the case, then if bio parents are still married to each other, should only one income count?
If the NPC pays tuition directly or pays for other things (music lessons, summer camp, day care) I don’t think the payer can count that as child support. Child support is paid to the CP, often through a court registry. Other amounts are paid for the benefit of the child while in the care of the NCP. If the NPC provides food and activites while the child is at the NCP’s home, that’s not counted as child support. If the dad pays for summer camp, the mom doesn’t count that as child support even if the camp takes place during the mom’s custodial time.
If the NCP pays tuition directly to the college, I don’t see how that is child support. Mother wouldn’t including it on FAFSA as money received as support, father wouldn’t claim it if he is filling out fafsa for another child as the parent. If mother received the money and paid tuition with it, she’d have to include it on fafsa and father could claim it on his fafsa (for another kid, say if he were remarried) as child support paid. Might work for one and against anoyher.
[QUOTE=""]
@mom2collegekids there is a pretty significant difference between wearing threadbare clothes and shelling out 28K+ extra per year that he doesn't have floating around or in the OP's case 13k. That would also assume one had been able to save that much during the time of the remarriage, that neither partner had any economic impact due to job loss or health by your assumption of shared cost reductions. I have certainly not "saved" 100K+ on household expenses since I remarried, nor has my H. <<<
[/QUOTE]
What would your EFC be w/o your H’s income? Is it now $28k more?
I’m not saying that you have $100k more in savings now that you’ve married. The point was that now you are sharing expenses. Are you saying that you’re not personally (you) seeing any savings now that you’re sharing expenses?
I suspect that the reality for most formerly divorced but now remarried couples they are NOT seeing any savings now that they are sharing expenses. Why? Because their standard of living has increased (dramatically in some cases). I don’t begrudge a (usually single mom) who remarries and whose standard of living gets an abrupt and welcome bump. After years of cutting corners to keep the kids in the same school system and trying not to make them feel victimized financially, it is great if/when this family is now able to take a vacation, trade in the junker car, etc.
But seriously- every family in America would love that deal. I’d love the marital lottery to hand me a winning ticket in middle age just as I’m trying to decide which is more important- kids college fund, muffler that’s about to fall off, or taking my kids on vacation with their “new” dad and siblings. But people who stay married make sacrifices too- not just the divorced- and there’s no way for me to double my income overnight if I’m going to stay with the original spouse.
Sharing expenses usually doesn’t yield extra savings- just like with the long term married, it takes dough to maintain a family.
@CCDD14, my interpretation would be that if the parent whose child benefits from legally-ordered tuition payments has to report it as child support received, the parent who pays tuition as part of a legally-ordered arrangement would be able to report it as child support paid. Since there is nothing specifically addressing this particular situation in the FSA Handbook or guidance that I am aware of, a school could call it into question - and they could do what they want, based on their own policy determination. In that case, if it were me, I would ask that they submit the question to NASFAA’s Ask Regs for a determination (this is a really cool service from the national finaid organization - they will research it & ask Federal Student Aid for a determination).
That works to, perhaps, benefit the tuition payer if he also files the fafsa for another child, but then the CP would have to include that as child support on the fafsa for the child who benefitted. Why wouldn’t the CP claim it wasn’t child support, she never received it as cash, and didn’t include the amount paid for tuition as child support received?
@mom2collegekids My step children attend(ed) FAFSA only schools and as mentioned above, in my scenario it is really only a factor at profile schools that look at need but it is significant one. One child received a small grant for the one year the two kids overlapped, maybe 2k. Neither were/are at need aware or meet full need schools and both schools were higher COA than anything I can consider for mine. So no, there was no “working” of the system in our favor. The bio mom as well as my H split their full costs on every level, as is the right thing to do, and per the court agreement. Certainly the possibility exists for a child to benefit if the CP is low income and has not remarried but that is not the case here.
Not that it is relevant, but my EFC would actually be almost 40K less without my H’s income. Which interestingly enough, is what I do have available. It would be 28 less if we were able to be considered as having 2 in college and that is also a number I can make work with stretching only due to the fact that I have remarried (and so yes, there are some savings) as without that, I could not. 56 by myself annually? No. 56 combined for 2 kids yes. With pain and kid contribution but yes. Should I have realized the impact when I remarried? Maybe. I did not, nor did my husband and like the OP, he feels terrible about it. Everyone seems to think he should just pony up more money but life isn’t that simple.
I agree there is no magic formula that will work as there are too many variables. As for me, with a deadbeat dad who not only won’t, can’t, contribute and a recession that involved 2 layoffs for me with giant gaps in employment and income loss and deflation, yes it does frustrate me that a significant household expense isn’t accounted for and instead my H is just supposed to pony up more and is somehow a bad guy if he does not. It is not his fault the bio dad is unable to contribute or that the child support arrears is close to the total shortfall. As it is, he is making up for our joint retirement savings as I cannot. He was supposed to magically save for 4 kids instead of 2 and now is considered as non contributing? I disagree with that.
For those that need federal aid, I am glad it is available, for those that do not I am glad they have been able to manage those kinds of savings. I simply don’t see why it isn’t understandable that someone might be upset that they are learning a consequence of remarriage is a fairly large increase in their college expenses depending on how any one school defines need. I have no idea if OP referring to federal aid, state aid, grants or need based private school aid. Either way I think It is a reasonable thing to be thrown for a loop or upset by, to want to understand and in some cases, to plan around if one finds out in time to do so. I don’t see where empathy for the OP is unwarranted at all. I am not looking for any mind you, just stating I understand her situation and empathize. It is unfortunate that this community seems to assume folks are looking to milk the system somehow when asking a clarifying question and take affront when someone seems upset that there is a huge net cost increase associated that they were unaware of.
My kids will live. They will simply not have the same choices for schools that their step siblings did despite similar stats. If we were able consider by SD as a child in college that overlaps with mine, they would have the same choices but that is not the case. It is what it is.
@blossom are you implying that divorcing and remarrying somehow doubles ones income? In a divorce where the NCP actually does the right thing, they lose income. They have a new household to maintain (either solo or not), plus child support to the previous home. They may or may not have alimony. That means 50% of the childs expenses to the CP’s, plus 100% of them to their home so the “cost” of the child actually goes up about 25% -30% in a divorce scenario. As a result, more often than not, both new households, the CP and the NCP have less overall disposable income and that is assuming no alimony. The only time overall incomes go up is if both parties have remarried to partners with income levels equal to that of the previous spouse and the CP is receiving child support so each house has a CP and a NCP. In that event, in theory both households go up and there is more disposable income all around. However, if they remarry someone who is a CP and whose NCP does not contribute, the shared expenses are somewhat improved but the net financial situation of the new unit may very likely still be less than it was pre-divorce with original partners and there is most certainly a tax hit.
Staying married to the original partner is almost always the far smartest financial decision.
@twoinanddone I don’t think it matters either way. Child support does not impact EFC.
@kelsmom and @CCDD14 I don’t think it matters at all at a FAFSA school, though if it is court ordered I do believe it is still considered child support from a legal standpoint. I don’t think it matters at a PROFILE school either to be honest.
Child support received or paid is included on FAFSA.
I do sympathize with your situation. If your exH had provided child support, etc, all along, then perhaps your financial situation would be different. If so, then there’s the issue.
Unless you live in Calif or a rare other state that gives amazing aid based only on FAFSA, you would likely be hugely gapped at FAFSA only schools…and CSS profile schools that require NCP info might have not given you anything since your ex likely would not have cooperated.
<<<
They will simply not have the same choices for schools that their step siblings did despite similar stats.
<<<
Well they may not have the SAME choices, but they may still end up with very good choices if you’re able to identify schools that give excellent merit.
What are their stats? Maybe we can help identify some schools that will work? What is your home state?
There are INTACT families that find that they need to limit the options to younger children because of various issues. There’s a mom who used to post on CC who allowed her oldest child to “pick his dream school” at full cost…and then suddenly couldn’t afford that option for her younger kids…who then had to find schools that give huge merit.
Why didn’t you have your step daughter live with you? If she had done so, you would have gained the financial benefit. All,she had to do was live in your household greater than 50% of the time for the year prior to,the FAFSA and Profile filing dates.
It seems like this still comes back to the view that certain people in very low income status can manage to send their kid to “harvard” because it is being paid for, while those in the middle/upper middle don’t qualify for aid but cannot possibly justify the expense and then complain that they are being punished for their hard work. Easy to rejoin the ranks of the poor.
I think there are always surprises when life events happen. I was paying as a single on my health insurance, about $200/mo. The day my daughter was born, it went to $650/mo. My employer (the United States of America) didn’t offer ‘parent plus one’ or a cheaper insurance option as many other employers did, it was single or family, so for my family of two, I paid the same as any family with 2 adults and a dozen children. (I showed them, my daughter’s hospital bill was $300 grand). That was the definition of ‘family’ for insurance.
The OP asked WHY the fafsa would consider the stepparent’s income from a period before arrive and disregard the bio parent’s income, and the answer is the fafsa formula uses household income, and the stepparent is part of the household as defined by FAFSA.
Eanddesmom- I empathize and I thank you for your well written and thoughtful post.
However, I just want to point out that kids whose parents die face the issues you raise- and there is no “court ordered child support” for a dead father. Unless there was financial planning ahead of time, the widowed mom is faced with the choice of using life insurance (if they are lucky enough to have it) to live on or to supplement her income, vs. banking it for college- and it’s rarely enough for more than one kid. Social Security survivor benefits can mean the difference between food and utilities or not- but it’s not enough (nor should it be IMHO) for college tuition.
Your situation seems complicated by a bio dad who is still on the scene (or at least you know where he lives) but not able to contribute. Is that correct? There are a lot of intact families where the younger kids do not have the same choices the older ones did purely due to finances (2009/2010 sure saw a lot of that) so while I’ve got enormous empathy for your situation and your kids- again, this is not a divorce situation per se, but a common problem with more than one kid and paychecks which need to stretch across a wide time range to account for the kids educational needs.
^It would also be unfortunate if this issue becomes a “burr under the saddle” of the family relationships (you and H, kids and step-kids, etc.) because “your kids got better choices than mine”. Despite accepting that this is the way things are, such ideas tend to fester and leave sores below the surface.
All. I am not looking for sympathy but rather was trying to provide it to the OP who has had a bit of a shell shock and then was attacked here.
It is an adjustment, the OP has clearly run away and I can’t blame them. It puts both the OP and her fiance in a horrid position with which to consider starting a new life together and I was simply appalled by the total lack of empathy for the situation. No one here knows their entire financial situation. I just don’t think it’s all that hard to be kind while being honest.
@mom2collegekids I am gapped at out of state schools as most people are. I am gapped by an even larger amount at private schools, need based or not. With one child who would likely thrive more at an LAC that is hard to accept at times but he is not without options nor is the one that follows. Though most children at CC seem to all have tippy top stats, we have simply nice solid students who while they will get some merit, it will not come close enough, and that gap does make a difference in what can be considered. They will not have the kind of voice in their selections that the step kids did, the stats are not high enough to compensate for the financial differences. It is what it is and I am grateful to know what I do so I can do my homework, find what merit I can and give my children the best possible options that work for the budget that exists and are equal for each child to the best of my ability. My defense for the OP comes down to the simple fact that she in all likelihood does not have that extra 13k without cutting into her options for her own children. Her fiance likely does not have it either. But now his children may have their choices altered as may hers. That’s not fun news for anyone, fair or not.
@thumper1 really? yes, I’m sure that would have been well received and a legal option. We are court ordered to pay 50% and do. We would with or without the court order. Despite the fact that the court order states those costs should be jointly determined by the bio parents, they are not and challenging that in court is costly and not worth it. It has however meant that my H pays for whatever school the kids decided to go, wherever they decide to live, whether or not they buy used books or try to economize at all. We are also court ordered to get a measly 33% of the nights and had to fight for every single one of them while the kids under 18. If the bio mom had her way H would just pay and never see his children and fund her retirement (amazingly she was able to retire at 52…). She refused to have/allow either kid apply for a single scholarship, or do work study as they “shouldn’t have to”. So of course, they didn’t. But I digress. For the first year of the older childs college education she refused to file the FAFSA at all and only did when a small grant came his way and the school required it. Even then it wouldn’t have been filed if SS didn’t do it. She loves nothing more than to be able to be full pay with no merit. That said, it could have been/still be a lot worse than it was, they both made decent choices for the most part, they are good kids, and for that I am grateful.
@twoinanddone agreed, life events can cause surprises. I just think this is one many folks truly have no clue until they start to dig deep or fill out FAFSA or PROFILE. They may assume it’s bio parents only or all parents from all households and I don’t think either is an unreasonable assumption. Instead it’s a weird hybrid that is confusing at first and a shock to some.
@sylvan8798 not sure where you are getting any of that. No one has said they couldn’t justify the expense. There is a difference between justification and the non existence of funds. No one mentioned Harvard or complained of being punished for hard labor or were somehow saying the poor had an unfair advantage. You are certainly entitled to disagree with my point of view that if my entire household is considered a unit, our total colleges expenses should be as well. I fail to see how that made any of the points you suggest. My point in stating to the OP that it is good for her to know now is that her chances for it not become a burr under the saddle as you put it, may be improved by early knowledge. I wouldn’t call it an idea, it is a reality. The step kids do have better options, they always have, there are two adults paying their expenses versus one. That doesn’t create an issue unless someone lets it. I do not. It is not a new situation. But that doesn’t make it less real.
@blossom I am not looking for empathy for myself, just trying to explain why I have it for the long gone OP. I do not disagree that there are many many difficult situations. Certainly the one you describe is a significant one. I was not remotely trying to compare my situation with something like that, nor did the OP appear to be doing so. In my situation, I may as well have been widowed as I was left with 100% of the bills and debt that he racked up without my knowledge, prior to and during our marriage under the assumption he had a very short time to live. I do not actually know where my NCP is, at least not technically. I have suspicions. Suffice to say we will not apply to profile schools that use the NCP form or will request an NCP waiver. Heaven knows I have the documentation to back it up. The state has been unable to find him/garnish him the vast majority of the past 15 years. I do not actually believe he is working due to health issues but that is very old hearsay. I check in with Social Security occasionally to confirm he has not died nor received disability as that would be garnishable. We (the children) will not be notified if that happens.
Many people struggle with college expenses and I am in no way unique or special in that respect, I just have empathy for someone just learning that there will be an additional hit due to remarriage that they were not aware of. I just think it’s a tough thing to swallow especially at first and potentially hard on a couple, especially a new one.
@eandesmom has been very rational about her sons’ college options on this and several other threads, accepting that some schools just aren’t affordable. I do get that feeling that it just doesn’t seem fair. I do disagree with her that everyone jumped on the OP in this thread, as I (and others I think) were just answering OP’s question of why does the FAFSA include stepparent income. It’s just the definition of household.
The majority of students must choose their schools based on what they can afford. A few low income students do get the opportunity to consider many schools that are out of financial reach for most of the middle class.
I went back and re-read the original post to make sure that I hadn’t misunderstood OP’s concerns. I originally thought that OP was most surprised that her income from before her marriage to her step-kid’s dad would be used to determine financial aid, more so than the fact that a step-parent’s income would be considered at all. And, that’s the impression that I still have:
As I pointed out in my response, unless she has stopped working or her income has decreased since getting married, using prior-prior year income is probably more advantageous than using current (or prior year) income. And for situations where a new step-parent no longer has income or it has decreased, there is always professional judgment.
I don’t think that posters in this thread have been mean or even necessarily unempathetic; I would describe it more as realistic. But, that’s just my opinion. Money, divorce and children can be emotional issues, especially when all three are in the mix at the same time.
<<<
most children at CC seem to all have tippy top stats, we have simply nice solid students who while they will get some merit, it will not come close enough, and that gap does make a difference in what can be considered. They will not have the kind of voice in their selections that the step kids did, the stats are not high enough
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
Then please look over the thread that lists schools that cost less than $25k per year (COA). Some even give merit for “just good” stats to further reduce costs.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1651944-very-low-cost-oos-coa-universities-less-than-25k-coa-for-everything.html#latest
Some may not be LACs, but some are small universities that could have that more intimate LAC feel.
I can’t remember if it’s USouth Dakota or South Dakota State (or both), but at least one has an OOS rate that is the same or almost the same as instate. I don’t think either Univ is very big.
University of Montevallo is a small intimate college that have generous merit for rather modest stats.
Univ of Maine Ft Kent reduced its OOS tuition to about $10k per year and gives generous merit for rather average stats.