Financial Aid for a upper-middle class kid?!

<p>I am going to be a senior so I need to start finalizing which colleges I will be applying to. I have a couple questions that I hope you experts can help me answer!
PS, I want to be a business major.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Do Early Decision and Early Action have a significant impact on whether or not I will get accepted? Basically, are my chances gonna be better.
Statistically wise, it seems so because acceptance rates double or more from regular admission to early decision; however, I always thought this was misleading since people who early decision to example: Harvard, will probably be more qualified for Harvard in the first place..</p></li>
<li><p>My mother doesn't work but my father makes $250,000+ per year. Should I go Early Decision to UPenn (my dream school)? Is the admissions boost worth the risk of getting a subpar financial package? (In general, how bad are the financial aid packages for guys like me, with upper-middle class background, regarding restrictive early decision?)
OR should I just apply to Berkeley, which is a match school and has a tuition of about $12,000.</p></li>
<li><p>Read my post and chance me for these schools!
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1365837-help-me-out-chances-cal-upenn-others.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1365837-help-me-out-chances-cal-upenn-others.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>For starters, $250,000+ is not “upper-middle class.” Your family is in the top 3% of all American households by income. There’s nothing “middle” about that.</p>

<p>Even “super-aid” schools such as Penn will not likely give you much in the way of need-based aid… because you don’t have need. Your family can afford to pay the tuition.</p>

<p>From Penn’s financial aid Web site: <a href=“Submit My Documents | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs”>http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/paying-pro-look-at-the-facts.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Only 29 percent of incoming freshman applicants with family incomes over $190,000 were offered any aid at all. Those who were offered aid received a median grant of $18,000.</p>

<p>There are two essential considerations that have to be made when you are making your college lists. You are aware of both of them, which puts you well ahead of a lot of your peers and even parents.</p>

<p>You have to get accepted to a school. Most people know that and focus on that aspect, as you are. The second thing is that you and your family have to be able to pay for the school, and there are many misconception about that. Posting here shows that you are aware of those issues.</p>

<p>Sometimes, the second comes before the first. You need to talk to your parents and get a good hard commitment as to what they can and will pay for your college. Because your family income is high, you may not get any financial aid. Run the numbers and see what you can expect from various schools, but be aware that in the final reckoning, these schools look hard at every resource your family might have and can tap to pay for your education. </p>

<p>The two aspects are very much intertwined as admissions tends to be much more difficult in those schools that guarantee to meet full need and are generous. Harvard, Princeton, for example, have great aid packages even for families verging in what I consider high income figures. Getting in is the major obstacle with those school but you have to add the chances of getting and getting money to get a true idea how far fetched your lottery ticket wiinnings might be.</p>

<p>Regardless of what you end up doing, you and any student should have a school that you know you can afford and will accept you. The trick there is finding such schools that will also provide you with the education and amenities that you want. It’s usually the amenities that are the big hangup here.</p>

<p>As a general rule, for most schools offering the option, ED and EA (though less so for EA) gives an admissions advantage. You can check that by checking what that the early admit stats are vs regular. FOr some schools, there is no advantage if those numbers are close. For some, it is drastic, even given the fact that the early birds might be better candidates and are certainly showing early initiative getting their apps out so early. You are locking yourself into a commitment and giving the school a solid “yes” early in the process and helping yield figures, in exchange for that extra consideration that is usually not defined, but yes, it is usually an advantage. It’s also an advantage to apply as early as possible to schools with rolling admissions as it gets more difficult as fewer seats are available. As a rule, schools make an attempt to give good solid aid packages to ED students, as they really want that category to be a done deal. What you lose is the ability to compare packages as you may just have that one package to assess with no idea what other colleges might give. ALso, if your family finances are unusual or you do not represent them accurately (since you have to estimate when applying early, before the year is over and you actually have some of the financial info), it is possible that you get an inaccurate package. For schools with merit awards, it has been the thought that those who apply and are accepted ED are at disadvantage for those monies, since you are a “done deal” and those funds are used to entice those on the fence about coming that the school wants. That is not an issue with a school like Penn that has no merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Unless you get a good idea of what aid you might get from Penn and a commitment from your parents that they can afford the school, it may not be wise to apply ED there. Yes, you can back out of the commitment if the aid package is not acceptable, but that process is usually a lot messier and more painful than it is to say that. I’ve seen it happen, and it “ain’t pretty”. </p>

<p>The thing is, that if you have the stats to make Penn and Berkely serious considerations, you are a candidate for merit money at a number of schools. That is why the money end of it is so important.</p>

<p>2. My mother doesn’t work but my father makes $250,000+ per year</p>

<p>You’re not upper-middle class. You will not qualify for aid at ANY school…not even HYPS.</p>

<p>You need to ask your parents if they’ll pay $60k per year for wherever you go? If they won’t, ask them how much they will pay??? YOU NEED to know that!!</p>

<p>If your parents won’t pay $60k+ per year and you have the stats for top schools, then you likely have the stats for merit scholarships at other schools.</p>

<p>*. </p>

<p>Should I go Early Decision to UPenn (my dream school)? Is the admissions boost worth the risk of getting a subpar financial package? (In general, how bad are the financial aid packages for guys like me, with upper-middle class background, regarding restrictive early decision?)
OR should I just apply to Berkeley, which is a match school and has a tuition of about $12,000.*</p>

<p>Berkeley is NOT a match for anyone. It is a REACH for all students. Cal rejects students with tippy top stats all the time.</p>

<p>Bumpity bump!</p>

<p>Why are you looking for financial aid? If you want MERIT aid, that’s another story, but in that case you should probably go the LAC route or look at state flagships (such as Alabama) that give free tuition to OOS students with good scores.</p>

<p>Dunno why you’re bumping: there’s really not much to add here. </p>

<p>Penn famously gives an admissions bump to legacies only if they apply during the ED round. That’s a big chunk of the admittees. If one or both of your parents went to Penn then applying there ED makes sense. If your parents have not seen the cost of Penn and agreed to pay it, then you shouldn’t be applying there ED.</p>

<p>Berkeley can be a match school for some here in CA. What are your safeties?</p>

<p>You won’t get *any *need based aid with a parent earning $250k a year. </p>

<p>If paying for a school is going to be an issue, you need to apply to schools where you will be in the running for merit based aid. If you apply ED to a school and are accepted, you will not be able to compare the scholarships offered to those that any other school may offer you. So if the amount of merit based scholarship is important do not apply ED.</p>

<p>When you apply ED, you are able to withdraw from the school if you feel the aid (scholarships in your case) is insufficient. Trouble is you have no way of knowing whether that package is worse or better than what other schools may offer you. We have had students withdraw from their dream ED school only to discover that it was a better package then any school offered them later. But they had no way of knowing that because they applied ED.</p>

<p>.
Berkeley can be a match school for some here in CA. What are your safeties?
</p>

<p>I know that Naviance will show Cal as a “match” for some students in Calif, but since admissions to Cal and UCLA are very hard to predict, it’s safer to consider them as reaches. Acceptances and rejections to both schools are often illogical.</p>

<p>Also, the OP seems to be saying that if he can’t go to Penn, then he’ll go to Cal. Well, Cal isn’t a guarantee, so he can’t just have 2 choices.</p>

<p>m2ck, Naviance and/or counselor experience at certain high schools can indeed show that Berkeley is a reasonable match for some students at those high schools. I’ve seen students who truly could use Cal as a safety–in some cases, based on admissions guarantees received from Cal quite early in senior year (and no, this was not athletic recruiting). If the OP is in this kind of situation and not just relying on high stats, that’s a different matter.</p>

<p>I’m more concerned that the OP doesn’t seem to have any safeties, and that the parents seemingly haven’t yet truly understood the financial side.</p>

<p>Although $250k sounds great on paper, the OP is most likely in a high cost of living area and writing the check for $60k may not be possible. The OP needs some parental input, IMO. Is $250k+ closer to 250 or 500 or ? It makes a difference.</p>

<p>Agree - Definitely needs parental input as to what the parents are able/willing to pay. </p>

<p>But I don’t think need based aid is on the cards if the income is $250k even if the areas has a high cost of living.</p>

<p>Nope, there is no “cost of living” issue here. Lifestyle choices are not “cost of living.”</p>

<p>I meant that there is not as much disposable income in high cost areas, not anything about aid.</p>

<p>The bottom line is, many families “should” be able to pay, based on the EFC formula. For many, many reasons … a good number of them legitimate, I might add … some families may not be able to or may not want to or may not feel it is prudent to spend that much on college. That does not, however, mean that the student will then receive aid. This is why students and parents MUST discuss college costs. It is perfectly okay for mom & dad to prefer to spend less money on college than they are supposedly able to spend. However, it is also imperative that their child understands this so he/she can plan a college search accordingly.</p>

<p>People, it is time to talk!!! :)</p>

<p>Hawaii is one of the highest cost of living places in the US, but $250K/year or more still puts you in the top income bracket throughout most of the nation. Many families live up to their income, so saying there SHOULD be money for college or whatever is not particularly helpful in planning whether there WILL be money contributed by family for college. You need to sit down & talk with your folks about what they WILL COMMIT to your college per year, for how many years & whether there are “strings” such as only if you get into particular schools/majors at specific Us or class of Us (e.g. ivies) or whether that is available regardless. You also have to talk about how likely there will be sufficient funds for the next 4+ years so that their contribution will continue throughout your college years.</p>

<p>If you’re thinking/planning grad school, it is important to consider that as well, since those costs can dwarf undergrad expenses. Some kids go to CC or inexpensive in-state U & save fund for grad/professional school. Often, parents are only willing/able to contribute up to a particular sum in total & very little aid is available for grad/pro school.</p>

<p>^^ I agree with kelsmom: have the conversation now.</p>

<p>Some of the saddest posts on CC are those in July, when the first bill from the college arrives, and the realization hits: we don’t have enough money to pay for this college. The student by then has this huge emotional investment in going to College A, all the friends and family have been told the student is going to College A, and all the other college options have been irrevocably closed off. I suspect that’s the time that some really bad decisions get made (for families with the credit standing to make them), decisions that will leave somebody with an enormous amount of debt.</p>

<p>So again: have the conversation before the college search process starts. Know what you can realistically afford to pay. Include a solid financial safety on the application list. And when the acceptances roll in, make sure you select a place you can afford to pay for.</p>

<p>Also, please remember and budget that college is generally at a minimum FOUR years (can be five or longer). The focus is how to pay for ALL years of college, not assuming that somehow funds will materialize after the first year. </p>

<p>It’s also tough to be in a position after going to expensive U for year 1, only with huge loans can student remain at expensive U & s/he is looking at transferring & getting degree from in-state U or even transferring to CC & having to work while trying to go to state U & ultimately get degree while still paying off big loans incurred at expensive U.</p>

<p>I am 90% sure that if I get into Berkeley, I will go there. Tuition is only $12000 a year so it won’t be too bad. Can any of you predict how much it would cost a year for me (including living expenses etc) if I got accepted to UPenn Wharton ED? </p>

<p>And I’m sure my dad has put aside money for my college but I have a sister one year younger than me and my brother is 10. Paying for 3 colleges will be difficult, even for a man who makes $250,000 a year. He makes closer to 250,000 than 500,000 (a lot closer), on an extremely good year, he will make close to 300,000.
So basically, I don’t want to put too much financial strain on my parents.</p>

<p>You need to ASK your folks what the situation is – DO NOT GUESS. There is no point in trying to guess how much families are or are not willing and able to pay. You and your parents need to have an honest discussion so you can start making appropriate plans. </p>

<p>One problem some students are finding with UC & CA state schools is difficulty getting courses, which can cause them to remain in school significantly longer than they would otherwise plan to. This has happened to the BF of one of our relatives as well as a relative, prolonging their time in school far beyond what they had expected. Room & board, as well as delaying entry into work full-time workforce with BA/BS because of courses and coursework due to scheduling issues is something to consider as CA finances do not appear to be improving in the near future.</p>

<p>Paying for college for any family is tough, but many families manage on far less, depending on what their priorities and other obligations are.</p>

<p>Wharton or many out-of-state &/or private Us are likely $50,000-60,000/year and up. Have a talk with your parents soon!</p>