financial safeties in the same vein as chicago?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>alright. so:</p>

<p>female, white, nc public school
4.6 gpa, 3.7 UW
around top 5%
2330 SAT - 800 cr, 750 m, 780 w (single sitting)
34 act composite
national merit semifinalist</p>

<p>my ECs are limited but i'm pretty involved in what i do participate in. i've got several national recognitions in latin, i'm consistently the top female scorer at statewide quiz bowl competitions. i have a job. </p>

<p>my family finances are "sufficient" on paper but very precarious. i need places that i can be comfortable assuming will cut me a deal.</p>

<p>here are the schools that i am applying to that will probably not cut me a deal:</p>

<p>reed, chicago, brown, carleton</p>

<p>i understand that schools that are likely to give me a lot of money are probably not as academically prestigious/notorious as chicago or reed, but since money is an issue i am content to settle reputation-wise. i don't want to give up quality, though! i am applying to unc, the obvious financial safety, but i am really trying to avoid staying in my hometown for another four years. </p>

<p>essential dimensions: undergrad focus/LAC, strength in hard sciences</p>

<p>i've heard grinnell and oberlin but i don't know if would be an attractive enough candidate at either of those places to receive extra good will. </p>

<p>people have mentioned women's colleges to me in the past; does anyone know of any that are hard-hitters in science? i know smith has an engineering school but i haven't seen anything about it beyond the smith website. </p>

<p>thank you!</p>

2

<p>Suggestions (more to less selective LACs): </p>

<p>Smith, Grinnell, Oberlin
Macalester; Colorado College (especially for geology or environmental science)
… drop in selectivity …
College of Wooster; Earlham (for biological sciences; I don’t know about physical science)</p>

<p>(this is playing quite loose with the “in the same vein as Chicago” concept.)</p>

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<p>thank you, though. the chicago vein is very narrow, i can only expect so much.</p>

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<p>USC is a school you should apply to, but it won’t necessarily be a "financial safety, " since you’ll still have a lot left to pay. However, since you are NMSF, you’d likely get a 50% scholarship (about $17k per year). :slight_smile: But, that would leave about $36k per year uncovered.</p>

<p>I’m guessing that your situation is this…please correct me if I’m wrong…</p>

<p>Your family makes a high enough income that you think/know that they will have a high EFC that they cannot pay. Is that right?</p>

<p>Ok…how much have they told you that they can contribute each year? </p>

<p>Your stats and national merit status are high enough that some schools would give you great merit scholarships, but they aren’t “Chicago”. :(</p>

<p>What else do you want in a school beside engineering? Social life? rah rah sports? (USC again. LOL), weather preferences?</p>

5

<p>You have an excellent safety in UNC. What I see in common among the 4 schools you listed is that all of them attract students with a high level of intellectual passion and commitment, and each is a little iconoclastic in its own way. I think that is true to some degree of the LACs I suggested. Any that appeals to you is worth a shot for merit aid.</p>

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<p>*though! i am applying to unc, the obvious financial safety, but i am really trying to avoid staying in my hometown for another four years. *</p>

<p>UNC-CH is an excellent safety, but since you don’t want to go there, you really should have 1 or 2 more financial safeties - just in case the money doesn’t work out elsewhere. No one wants to feel like they had no choice and ended up going to their hometown school when they could have had some other financial safeties. :)</p>

<p>Are you applying to any financial safeties - besides UNC - that you know, for sure, will give you lots of merit? </p>

<p>I remember your earlier post, and you’re a very thoughtful daughter to be concerned about your parents ability to contribute each year for your education. :)</p>

<p>I mentioned USC above, does that interest you?</p>

7

<p>i think usc might be a little too sporty/greek for me! regarding big-name financial safeties, though, someone told me recently that UT austin gave out in-state tuition to well-qualified applicants. i’ve heard really great things about austin the town, and since (if you remember from my previous post :slight_smile: ) i’m a sucker for atmosphere, i’m considering applying there. i’m not sure what their criteria for that in-state offer are, though. do you know anything about it?</p>

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<p>williams000, I would check out this thread about merit aid at liberal arts colleges: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/219357-usnews-top-100-liberal-arts-college-merit-v-need-only.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/219357-usnews-top-100-liberal-arts-college-merit-v-need-only.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The thread is slightly old, but post #2 lists liberal arts colleges with merit aid and that could perhaps be one thing to consider.</p>

<p>The problem is that the farther down you go in the pool to find merit aid, the more it becomes very possible that UNC-Chapel Hill would actually have much better academics than the college offering you aid. So it some point, within the confines of it needing to be inexpensive, it may come down to location vs. academics.</p>

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<p>If you’re a National Merit, USC gives 50% tuition scholarship (about $17k per year). The COA for USC is about $53k, so you’d still have $36k uncovered. </p>

<p>How generous is UT for merit? Didn’t someone report here on CC that UTexas has gotten rid of most/all of its merit and is concentrating on need based aid? Was there particular merit from UTexas that you know that you’ll get?</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t worry about USC being too “sporty/greek.” About 20% of students are involved in the greek scene, which means 80% are not. The sports are fun if you are interested, but my daughter, for example, doesn’t seem to even notice. Last year we told her we were going to BBQ and watch the Rose Bowl, and she said “Why are we watching the Rose Bowl? Is USC in it…?”</p>

<p>The scholarship is even a bit better tham mom2 mentioned - it is $19,250 this year <a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/meritbasedfo.html[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/meritbasedfo.html&lt;/a&gt;, and there is an additional $1,000 from NM. Scholarship awardees are eligible for the USC Honors program: Thematic Option. It is a wonderful LAC-like honors GE curriculum with USC’s best professors teaching small classes. It is an amazing program. [Thematic</a> Option > USC College of Letters, Arts & Sciences](<a href=“http://college.usc.edu/thematic-option/]Thematic”>http://college.usc.edu/thematic-option/)</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>That was my thinking, exactly, in stressing that UNC is an excellent financial safety (even though I recognize the OP would rather go away.) </p>

<p>Several OOS public institutions come to mind as appealing alternatives. Berkeley, Wisconsin, Michigan are top flagship universities where one can find the academic excellence of a Chicago, plus intellectual/arty/political “atmosphere”. The trouble is, I think they are unlikely to offer major merit aid to an OOS student. So are they worth paying a huge price premium over UNC? If UT does offer significant merit grants to OOS students, that would be a great choice. </p>

<p>I’m a Chicago alum; spent a year in Northfield MN where I got to know many Carleton people; Reed is one of my faves. To find other schools with similar qualities, a good place to start is the list in post #2 of the thread cited by ThoughtProvoking. Unfortunately, it dates to 2006. I think there have been some changes since that thread (else some of the info was incorrect even then). Macalester for example is listed in post #1 as a school that offers zero merit aid, but I know that’s not true (since my S was offered one last year). Post #2 is missing some schools. For example, Smith (currently USNWR #18), Colorado Colllege (currently #24) and Earlham (#62) all offer merit aid. </p>

<p>Grinnell, Macalester, Smith, Colorado College, and Earlham all offer merit grants and some of the atmospherics I’ve found appealing about Chicago, Reed, and Carleton. You will find significant numbers of very intellectual kids, arty kids, or save-the-world idealists, at all these schools. 2 are in cornfields but 3 are located in more interesting settings (Mac in the vibrant Twin Cities, Smith in a lively 5-college consortium community, CC in a pretty nice city at the foot of Pikes Peak). I’d be hard-pressed to say what distinguishes, say, Macalester students from Carleton students (maybe they’re a little more political). Tuition and fees at these private LACs typically are $35-40K. If you can land a $15-20K merit grant, the COA may be close enough to UNC range, and what they offer distinctive enough, to warrant taking on a little debt to attend. I think the chances for a full ride are small at these or any other schools more-or-less competitive with UNC for academics.</p>

<p>The “Colleges that Change Lives” site is another good resource. Reed is on it. The rest of the schools (other than Whitman, another very selective LAC) tend to be great choices for “late bloomers” (smart kids who were B students in HS). Many of them also are good choices for kids like the OP.</p>

<p>Personally, I think that of the original choices (reed, chicago, brown, carleton – plus UNC), the best prospects are Chicago or UNC. Chicago does offer significant merit grants; the OP sounds like a good Chicago candidate. Reed, Brown, and Carleton apparently do not (nor do the other Ivies or most of the NESCAC colleges). But Chicago aid is a little dicey. So I’d focus on finding Reed-like or Carleton-like LACs, unless someone can point out another tippy-top public university that offers generous merit grants to OOS students.</p>

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<p>williams000, I’ve skimmed through some of your previous posts. The picture changes slightly. I’m now less inclined to recommend Earlham (because its science strength seems to lean more towards bio than physical sciences, and because you might find the location pretty boring). I’d still recommend Grinnell despite the cornfield location, due to its wealth, academic quality, and the kind of students it seems to attract. </p>

<p>The school that strikes me as the best fit, a “cheaper Reed” (after aid), good for a physics/math person who wants a LAC in an interesting location, and one that offers merit aid, is Macalester College. Check out the square-wheeled bike demo on their Math department page:
[Macalester</a> College Mathematics and Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.macalester.edu/mathcs/SquareWheelBike.html]Macalester”>http://www.macalester.edu/mathcs/SquareWheelBike.html)
Also watch the “Harnessing the Sun” video with Physics Professor Jim Doyle:
[Macalester</a> Admissions - VISUAL TOUR](<a href=“http://www.macalester.edu/admissions/visualtour/movies/]Macalester”>http://www.macalester.edu/admissions/visualtour/movies/)</p>

<p>One downside to Macalester, same as for Carleton and Chicago, is the frigid winters. That’s why my S decided not even to visit after they accepted him. He’s a mathy person who took 5 years of Latin; found Reed attractive but it was too far away and sounded a little too intense. He chose Colorado College, which offers warmer weather than Mac. It appeals to outdoorsy, athletic, smart kids who might like Middlebury or Williams (but is somewhat less selective, more laid-back and hippie-ish.) I suspect you, however, might prefer Macalester.</p>

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<p>*That was my thinking, exactly, in stressing that UNC is an excellent financial safety (even though I recognize the OP would rather go away.) *</p>

<p>Yes, UNC-CH is an excellent safety for anyone, but if going to her hometown school would annoy the OP, then it’s not a **real **safety for her. Students are supposed to LOVE their safety and not mind going there. </p>

<p>I know that may sound odd to some of us, but I know 2 kids whose parents teach at Duke (so VERY reduced tuition), and they didn’t want to go to their hometown school, either.</p>

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<p>Well, this is one reason we “date around” by applying to multiple schools.
It’s one thing if the OP really dislikes UNC. It’s another thing if she actually likes it (as I gather might be the case from other posts) and simply would prefer to go OOS.</p>

<p>A passing fondness can blossom into love if the alternative is sexy but comes with $80K of debt attached. If the alternative is truly an excellent match and the 4-yr. debt is closer to $20K, that’s different.</p>

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<p>Brandeis gives great merit aid to top students and is often cited as similar to Chicago in terms of academic seriousness. Even though Brandeis is a University, it’s small and very much focussed on undergraduate education.</p>

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<p>Brandeis is a great suggestion. Rice is another small university that gives merit scholarships (up to about $20K I think). Competition would be pretty keen I’m sure, but maybe not more so than Chicago (depending on how many of them are available). I would think someone attracted to Chicago also would find Rice or Brandeis attractive.</p>

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<p>Check out Bard. It has a full tuition merit scholarship for those choosing science as their major. And it is similar to Chicago and Reed for the intellectual quality of the academics and many of the students. My son, who had similar stats to yours, has rarely been so challenged academically. </p>

<p>I also agree with Whitman as somewhere to check out.</p>

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<p>It seems quite a few of the schools we’re recommending, as well as the ones already on the OP’s list, rank high for graduating Peace Corps volunteers. Coincidence?</p>

<p>Top LACs:
1 Bryn Athyn College
2 Reed
3 **Whitman **
4 Macalester
5 Grinnell
6 Willamette
7 Hollins
8 Mount Holyoke
9 St Olaf
10 Williams
…
21 Carleton</p>

<p>Top Universities:
1 American
2 W&M
3 Chicago
4 George Washington
5 Georgetown
6 SUNY-EnviSci/Forestry
7 UNC
8 Dartmouth
9 Clark
10 UVa
…
12 Brown
19 Brandeis
21 Rice</p>

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<p>sincere thanks to everyone who has posted; there’s some really great information here!</p>

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<p>Keep us posted. You sound like a fine Chicago candidate. A math/physics major who wants a broad liberal education, with Great Books exposure, must be unusual these days. I really hope they come through with an acceptance and a decent grant. If not, you have other good options.</p>