financial safety school for piano performance major

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hello, my younger sister is preparing to apply to music schools this year to study piano performance. I appreciate everyone's comments on the board thus far as I've learned a lot about this whole complicated process (many sleepless nights reading thru this site and pianoworld.com). Anyways, she's narrowed it down her list to:</p>

<p>Curtis
Juilliard (or Manhattan)
Oberlin
Indiana
Michigan
TCU
UT-Houston</p>

<p>Unfortunately, these are all conservatories, out-of-state public universities, and two in-state Texas schools (she wants to get out of texas, however). My understanding is that conservatories and OOS public univ's are not generous w/ financial aid so I'm asking her to choose one private university as a financial safety, but we're having a hard time. I believe our family's EFC will be no higher than $5000 a year, so partial tuition scholarships will not be enough. We'll need a school that can meet close to 100% of financial need through scholarships, grants, loans (minimized as possible), etc.</p>

<p>I understand Northwestern is good, but her academics might not be up to par (3.9 weighted GPA, 1200 SATs). Boston U is good, but I'm not sure how good the piano faculty there is. USC might be a consideration, but I heard John Perry is leaving. Although it's note a private university, I heard CCM gives good financial aid and has a good piano faculty. Although I've heard not so great things about the surrounding area. </p>

<p>Any other schools posters can recommend?</p>

<p>Also, on another note, does anyone have any insight into the piano faculty at UT Austin? I heard Anton Nel is good, but he's never there.</p>

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<p>Colburn in L.A. is tuition free and also provides free housing and meals (and a flatscreen TV in every room); John Perry is the piano faculty there. USC also would require admission to the general university, so grades, etc. would matter; they give half tuition scholarships to all National Merit finalists. I understand that it would have been unusual to have John Perry as a teacher at the undergraduate level at USC, and he has assistants for some of the lessons. Juilliard scholarships are merit/need based. Oberlin can be generous with scholarships at the conservatory.</p>

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<p>In our experience, Juilliard is generous with merit. (We have no "official" need. S has a financial aid package about equal to full tuition.) Don't discount out of state publics. Indiana gave a friend of ours a very nice scholarship for oboe.</p>

<p>"Safety" in the true sense of the word is one where you would be guaranteed admittance and guaranteed money (or it is inexpensive to begin with.) She probably wouldn't be happy at a school that met both those criteria.</p>

<p>I think a better bet would be to look for some schools (public or private) that aren't necessarily known for music, but which have good teachers, and are trying to build their music programs. It might be a case where she is going to be better than most, but (in my opinion) this matters less for piano than for those playing orchestral instruments. They would be eager to have her, so they would court her with money.</p>

<p>There are also schools like Swarthmore, where they are trying to build their music program, they don't offer merit, but they do meet full need.</p>

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<p>It's really neat that you are helping your sister with her college search. Some of us here might be more helpful if you could give us a little more info on your sister. What is her level of playing? Has she won many competitions and/or state MENC/MTA adjudications, etc? Has she done alot of performing or will this be somewhat new to her? How does she handle the stress of performing and competition with fellow pianists? What are her goals? Does she want to be a soloist (concert pianist) primarily, or is she excited about accompanying and collaberating with other musicians? (If she's an awesome sight-reader, she will be in huge demand in any music department and can make some serious money accompanying). Does she want to teach privately and/or at the university/conservatory level, meaning she has set her ultimate goal at grad school? You need to discuss all of these with her and have a realistic assessment of her potential. The reason I say this is that her top schools (Curtis, Julliard, and also Colburn) are nearly impossible to get into, even for the strongest candidates. Don't get me wrong...I am all for students applying to their dream schools, even if they are a reach, and maybe your sister has a real chance of admission. But you would be wise to concentrate on those schools a few notches below with very strong faculties (and there are many out there). Undergrad music performance majors can make incredible progress in 4 years with the right teacher, and THEN go on to a top grad school. One thing you might start with is contact some of the top teachers on your list (i.e. Anton Nel or Abby Simon) and ask if they can recommend a teacher for undergrad. They are busy, but most will respond if you give them a little time and are happy to help. If money is a serious issue for your family, then you probably want to keep a few TX schools on your list - and there are some great teachers in TX, so you are lucky. (I wrote a response to you on PW re: UNT, by the way -- Opus 119!) So good luck -- and keep us posted on your search. Oh, I disagree with Binx when she says that your sister wouldn't be happy at a safety school. If her 'safety' has an awesome teacher, she'll do just fine. I think it's alot more important for instrumentalists to be surrounded by higher caliber players because of all the ensemble work. But pianists are generally loners (as far as practicing and rep), so that fact that a school might have a mediocre music program really isn't a huge factor. A good example is right here where I live -- we have a state university with an average music dept., however, it has an exceptional piano teacher. Some of his students go on to study with the best (i.e. Anton Nel)- and meanwhile they get full scholarships to study with him for undergrad amd are veru well prepared for the demands of grad school.</p>

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<p>shroeder- Welcome. Please take a moment and read the experience of a current freshman at a safety that was not thoroughly researched here:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=390796%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=390796&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Now, as binx and violinmom have mentioned, there are great teachers at many public universitys, private colleges and LAC's with lesser known music programs. And as violinmom says, your sis's path/concentration will determine if one of those schools might work for her.</p>

<p>Just keep in mind, if she wants a concentration in ensemble, chamber, or collaborative work, the caliber of the musical peers she'll play with should be as good or slightly higher than her own level of ability. It can be frustrating (and often counterproductive) to spend four years playing with musicians two and three levels below one's own ability.</p>

<p>mamenyu cited Colburn... the conservatory program is fairly new, the facilities are supposedly wonderful, they have a great endowment, some marvelous world class faculty, and it's a full free ride. My guess is the level of competition is one a par with Curtis, maybe slightly below. I'm not saying the reputation is on the same level of Curtis at this point, but it may well become a major force in the future. If she's Curtis level, I'd say definately look at Colburn and faculty... it is a free ride. Curtis is full tuition only, not housing.</p>

<p>Out of state publics can be very stingey with merit and need based aid, but they occaisionally can surprise you if the audition puts you at the top of the heap.</p>

<p>As for the privates, the merit (talent) aid tends to be a function of how you scored on the audition, the top getting the largest aid. Academic awards in addition to talent aid may or may not be offered, and is very institution specific. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. If they want you, they'll tend to dangle a big enough carrot. Unfortunately, each school defines "big enough" within their own departmental budgets.</p>

<p>I know you said she'd prefer to be out of Texas, but look at Rice/Sheperd. A world class reputation, it's highly competitive, you have to meet academics (some flexibility) as well as audition, they're a bit cheaper than most privates, and historically give substantial aid. Do look at the piano facilty.</p>

<p>For my own benefit: TCU= Texas Chirstian Univ?</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Egads, I just red watt I rote above. I gotta watch my speling more. :eek:</p>

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<p>Aw violadad, you make up for your spelling with your knowledge and generosity. And this is coming from an English prof.</p>

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<p>Curtis does have financial aid to cover housing and other living expenses for those who demonstrate need. They also provide the nearly free loan (you pay for moving costs, for tunings after the first and for any damages to the instrument) of a Steinway grand piano for all of their keyboard, composition and conducting majors. Of course, nobody can consider a place like Curtis or Colburn a safety of any sort because the probability of admission is so low. A financial safety is only useful if you are accepted there.</p>

<p>Oberlin provides 100% of demonstrated need, primarily with grants. Loans are generally capped at the standard federal Stafford loan amounts ($3500 first year, $4500 second year, $5500 third and fourth years) and work study assignments generally run 8-12 hours per week. You can also cut living expenses considerably by joining a housing and a dining co-op there.</p>

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<p>DS graduated from BU (not piano) and knew several piano performance majors. He says the piano program is quite strong (per his friends). At BU, the audition is where you will be evaluated for a performance scholarship (typically in the $10,000 per year range or less). In addition, students can also get academic scholarships, but with a CR/Math SAT of 1200, it is unlikely that this student would be competitive for additional academic aid (DS had combined CR/Math of 1350 and got no additional aid beyond his performance award). Also, BU does not meet full need...not even close. When second child entered college and DS's EFC was significantly reduced (like by 1/2), BU gave him an additional $500 grant for that year (we were happy with anything they gave us!!). So...I guess what I'm saying is that BU probably should not be viewed as a financial safety.</p>

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<p>Except for the two instate schools (I don't really know anything about their music programs), the list is comprised of highly competitive programs (and outstanding)...HIGHLY. As Bassdad pointed out, getting accepted would be the first hurdle. </p>

<p>What about smaller schools like Lawrence, St. Olafs? I don't know anything about their finaid policies or acceptance, but just a thought. I've heard that Redlands (in CA) has a decent music program..don't know about piano.</p>

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<p>DS's piano teacher, a Juilliard pre-college school student, college student, PhD scholarship recipient who played Carnegie Hall at 13 (S is not that good, this wonderful man lives in the neighborhood) is not in favor of conservatories for undergraduates after his own experience. I am not saying that his right, but I am saying that student doesn't necessarily need a conservatory experience if finances are that tight.</p>

<p>I suggest SUNY Purchase as a financial safety (conservatory and competitive) and SUNY Stony Brook as an admissions and financial safety (obviously not a conservatory.) The SUNY schools are very reasonable, even for OOS. Stony Brook is a Kiplinger's best buy. Stony Brook used to have Charles Rosen and Gilbert Kalish on their piano faculty. Don't know who's there now, but the school is in the top 15 if not the top 10 for music graduate programs.</p>

<p>Just a thought.</p>

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<p>I understand that at Stony Brook the undergraduates are taught by graduate students. I think Kalish is still there; Christina Dahl is also supposed to be good, but, again, for graduate students.</p>

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<p>Amen to Mythmom's DS's piano teacher's opinion about undergraduate at conservatory, except for string players.</p>

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<p>Lorelei, just to make sure I'm understanding, you do mean all instruments except strings, including voice? Bass-baritone son is not thinking conservatories, and we're encouraging that train of thought, so he's going to apply to those universities or LACs with strong music programs (despite a singing friend having been admitted to several conservatories with very hefty merit aid).</p>

<p>And interesting note: We heard today from an instrumental grad student at the Yale ISM that none of the current members of the Yale Schola Cantorum (which S aspires to) went to a conservatory for undergrad. I haven't verified this, but the comment made an impression....</p>

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<p>neumes- I want to direct you to lorelei's posts #8 & 12 here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=390796%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=390796&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Within the context of THAT thread, it gives some insights and reasonings.</p>

<p>I tend to agree that a strict stand alone conservatory is not necessarily the best place for all music performance students, alot depends on the student's other interests. For undergrad, what is important, is a quality program with a broad experience in orchestral, solo, and ensemble/chamber work, a great studio teacher, and fellow musicians whose level of play is at least at or above your own level of play. It is important to be surrounded (for want of a better word) by peers of like mind and aspirations.</p>

<p>I'm speaking from the standpoint of a string parent whose undergrad got his BM from a conservatory environment within a university setting (Hartt). It really was the best of two worlds and worked for him. He's looking at top conservatories for grad school, as well as university based grad programs with strong programs in his area of interest (string quartet/chamber music).</p>

<p>I can't offer advice for voice students, having no background or experience, but I'm assuming a similar philosophy would hold true.</p>

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<p>Thanks, violadad. I can't tell you how valuable I find this Music Major forum because of your input and that of lorelei--and bassDad and binx and Skie thumper and mythmom and everyone else, mostly parents but some students--too many to name and I'm sorry to leave out people. And thanks to those brave enough to ask questions! I copy/paste and print these threads on a regular basis. I hope our experience will be as helpful to others someday, even if for mistakes made, which are good to read about, too.</p>

<p>And it is clear to see that there is no cookie-cutter road to a profession in music!</p>

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<p>I am not in the habit of recommending the piano department at Boston University, where I am a student (not piano), but its newly hired chair, Jonathan Bass, is really very strong. The year following his appointment, piano applications increased radically.
Piano has been a weakness at BU for a while, but it's a very strong music program in general, financial aid for strong students is ample, and good pianists are greatly appreciated there. Mr. Bass is a very fine teacher and a brilliant performer. On the whole I would think that a preferable situation to, say, TCU, where there is strong faculty in the piano area but not really in any other (musical) departments.</p>

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<p>Hi, shroeder
I'm a freshman majoring in piano in Indiana University. This year we have 12 piano majors and I know two of them (maybe more) are offered by full scholarship. One of them is an international student (me too) though. I got 3/4 tuition and one neat thing is that the tuition here is really low among other conservatories. </p>

<p>Btw, I don't if you've heard of Bard College, a LAC located 1hr drive from NYC. Their music conservatory was built two years ago so the application won't be that competitive like schools u listed above (you can see it from their audition requirement). And my friend there (not a music major, so I don't know if her saying is true) told me that the conservatory provides full need. Plus, one more attractive thing is that Peter Serkin is teaching there, also with Richard Goode's master class. So I think Bard is a great choice for you.</p>

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<p>amadeus makes a good point. However, a few things to consider about Bard: they require all performance majors to actually achieve a degree in a second liberal arts discipline. It is a 5 year program. This may or may not work for you. Additionally, as the conservatory is new, they have yet to graduate a class, and at last report still did not have enough students to field a full orchestra. This may be far less a concern for a pianist than a violist or horn player.</p>

<p>Look at their website for a full overview of the program. I would also use the search this forum feature here typing "Bard", and a number of previous discussion threads will come up. One of the more recent is here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=385212&highlight=Bard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=385212&highlight=Bard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>They do have an excellent faculty listing, particularly the strings. Melvin Chen is the Associate Director of the conservatory.</p>

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<p>Just an FYI re: Bard....while it is "an hour drive" from NYC, NYC is not all that easily accessible from Bard. And the school itself is in the middle of nowhere. I've heard very mixed reviews about their conservatory program (which as Violadad pointed out requires a second major that is not music related). The program is relatively new and developing so some of this is probably "growing pains". It's a school worth considering, but I would strongly suggest a visit there before applying.</p>

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<p>When we visited Bard last fall, they had only 5 piano students; all were taught by Melvin Chen. Richard Goode does master classes on occasion; Jeremy Denk and Peter Serkin did not seem to teach students on a regular basis. The admissions counselor said that some of the international students were having difficulty with the double degree because of language skill issues. The conservatory was also growing more slowly than they had initially planned. With regard to the academic program there, it is quirky and heavily weighted toward the humanities, though they just built a new science building. The students we saw tended toward the hipster side of the spectrum. Visit if you are interested. I would also suggest contacting them directly for a lesson before you apply.</p>